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Author Topic: UPDATED w/ First Video "Getting into Videography | Workflow, Equipment, and Length  (Read 24961 times)

Tabor Warren Photography

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Hello!

We are looking to get into the videography market and I have two questions.

1) What software do you all use during your workflow? We have the photo workflow down to an art, but was not sure which software is most recommended for video work.

2) What extra equipment would you all recommend for the videography aspect of the wedding? Our current gear is designed around our wedding photography, but I assumed that it can be subbed for videography as well. Based on videographers I have worked with in the past, our output should be much better quality than those I have worked with in the past shooting video with their rebels, though I'm certainly not against investing in the cinema line if I need to.

My current lineup is;
4 5Diii's
17-40 f/4L
24 f/1.4L ii
24-70 f/2.8L ii
35 f/1.4L
50 f/1.2L
70-200 f/2.8L ii
85 f/1.2L ii
100 f/2.8L Macro IS

What else do I need?

Thank you for your expertise!
-Tabor
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 01:36:57 AM by Tabor Warren Photography »
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mkabi

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 03:48:00 PM »
You have more than enough camera equipment. You just need lighting (continuous lighting). And editing software. Strongly suggest adobe premier, even though I use final cut 7. Davinci resolve for colour correction and after effects for special fx.
Sold my Canon DSLRs waiting on my RED Raven preorder. EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L, EF 85mm f/1.8, EF 100mm L f/2.8 Macro, Custom Cine 50mm & Custom Cine 35mm.

Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 04:17:11 PM »
mkabi,

Thank you very much for your response! Since we will 'likely' also be shooting a wedding it knocks us down to two cameras and the available lenses. I have never tinkered with any video editing software and am not certain how long I should anticipate the editing process to last, especially with the learning curve it will bring with it.

I will definitely look into Premier, Final Cut 7, DaVinci, and After Effects.

This is a terrific start, thank you again!
-Tabor
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mackguyver

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 04:46:33 PM »
The good news is that you have all the gear you need in terms of camera and lenses, but you'll need audio gear as well. Minimally an on-camera microphone, but preferably some wireless lavalier mics for the ceremony and a dedicated audio recorder.  You'll want a fluid head for pans as well.  The Adobe Creative Cloud if your best bet for editing tools in terms of top-notch software for the least money (at least upfront).  Storage is another issue, you'll burn through disk and memory cards quickly.

Unfortunately video is a near-endless dive into another realm of spending, but good audio gear, editing tools, and more storage should get you decent results.  I'll defer to the people who have made these big investments to direct you further.
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Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 05:14:44 PM »
Hi Mackguyver,

I will definitely need a fluid head as well as some mics. It looks like this is going to be a mounting investment, but I will likely try to stay within the creative cloud to hopefully mitigate some of the upfront expenses. I will also browse for a good lavalier mics since I think those will make a big difference as well.

Thank you,
-Tabor

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tiltshift

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 05:15:45 PM »
What equipment I think would be needed/desired in order of cost vs benefit vs need (subjective list though as your style and/or venue may be different and require different priorities)

I have used a bit of premiere and i would recommend it
magic lantern
Audio equipment
Good fluid head
continuous lighting
slider
rig for pulling focus
dolly for tripod

Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 05:25:23 PM »
Hi tiltshift,

I think that you provided a solid list of equipment I should look for. Ideally, I am wanting to attain all of these, although I have had my reservations on using magic lantern. Should I still pursue ML even if using the advanced editing tools for video?

Cheers!
-Tabor
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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 05:25:23 PM »

tiltshift

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 05:44:47 PM »
Tabor,

I am not an expert by any means but from my limited experience I choose not to do the ML route as I dont do video often and while the potential gains are clear I can't afford to brick my camera (however small the chances are). I recommended it as the people I consulted use video more often and felt that the reward outweighed the risk.

as to whether you "need" ML... my take was I could get good results if I worked within certain limitations. The other thing to consider is the client. if the video you capture makes your client happy and continues to convince others to use your services then I would argue that you don't need ML. if your initial tests are less pleasing and the improvements in ML would aid in that area that it could be worth it to you.  I would start without it and go from there.

Tinky

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 06:59:45 PM »
Go Premiere.

I use FCP7, but it's slow and frustrating.  Premiere is 64bit, uses all your RAM, doesn't require transcoding and is multi platform.

I'm moving towards Premiere myself gradually.  Used it since old old version 6, now have cs5.  Current versions even better.

You'll need two radio mics and receivers and something like sennheiser ew110s & a Tascam DR-60 to record.

When it comes to tripods you want a Sachtler ACE.  Properly counterbalancing.  Best tripod at this end of the market.  Cannot recommend how much this will improve your work.

You will also need a lot of practice.

WIth stills you can shoot 1000 images and pick the best 10, you can afford to have your AF hunt in AiServo mode etc.  You can concentrate on composition.

Video is contiguous.  It needs to be good all the time.  Practise practise practise MF.

Learn what 'the line' is and how not to cross it.

Shoot in sequences.  3 shots make a sequence. 

Pare down your kit.  You want a body, maybe 2.  You want 2 lenses.    A UWA f2.8 zoom.  A f2.8 Telezoom.

Everything else will get in the way.
2x Panasonic G7, Metabones .64 xl. EOS 3, 300X, 7D, 60D, 400D, 20D, 10D, M1, Arsat 80mm TS, Samyangs f1.4 35, 50 & 85, f2.0 20mm, ef-m 22 f2.0, 100 2.0, 70-200 2.8L, Sigma 18-50 2.8, 70mm f2.8, Tokina 11-16 2.8, 400 5.6, OSMO, P3-4K, and lots and lots of grip, lights, sound gear.

David_in_Seattle

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 07:25:01 PM »
Since you have a fleet of 5dmk3's it makes sense to keep using them for your workflow.  If you decide to upgrade to the Cine line then at least you have a lot of glass to compliment the new camera.

I produce wedding videos as a side gig (3-6 between May-Sept.).  Here are my recommendations:

Additional Lenses:

Canon 24-70 f4 L IS or 24-105 f4 L IS
While your 24-70 f2.8 is a great photography lens, it always helps to have IS on the lens to help reduce vibrations and rolling shutter when hand holding the camera.  Depending on the wedding ceremony and reception areas, you may not have the luxury of using a monopod or tripod at all times.

Canon 35 f2 IS
Great image quality and a faster aperture than any other IS lens from Canon.  It's also very light.

Canon 70-200 f4 L IS
While your f2.8 is a great lens (not sure if you have the IS version), it's also very heavy to use hand held which negates the IS unless you've got super steady grip.  The f4 version is much lighter and to be honest, the depth of field at 2.8 is too shallow to constantly be in focus for moving subjects while recording video at these focal lengths on a full-frame camera.

Stabilization:
Get a video head with fluid bearings and a counterbalance system capable of supporting your camera.  I use the Manfrotto 502HD and 504HD video heads which work great on anything under 10 lbs.  The counterbalance system enables you to smoothly pan and tilt the camera and when you plan to dead stop the camera shake or fall.

A tripod with a half bowl also helps for quickly leveling your camera.  It's not entirely necessary but once you have one you don't wanna give it up.  I use the Manfrotto 546GB along with the 504HD video head.

Sliders are nice but can often be cumbersome to quickly setup and only give you two (albiet very cool) visual effects.  If have the bankroll and are really dedicated to your craft, then a 3-axis stabilized gimbal from Movi or DJI will prove to be very useful for moving around the wedding venue while capturing smooth video.  I use a Movi m5, but mainly for my commercial work as the setup does garner a lot of attention and for wedding videography, that may not be your plan.

Audio:
Audio is just as important as video.  Admittedly, most wedding clients want to play their wedding song in the background throughout the video.  However it's still important to record good sound during the event.  Especially during speeches, toasts, etc.  A couple shot gun mics like the Rode Video Mic Pros will do for capturing environmental sound.  But you may want to invest in wireless lav mics like the Sennheiser G3 to place onto the bride and groom or anyone else giving a speech.  An alternative is to use an external audio recorder to plug into the DJ's microphone equipment to record a live feed.  Of course this largely depends on whether they're using microphones at all.

Things to consider later down the road:
Upgrading to the Cine cameras.  They're expensive and it would probably take half a dozen wedding projects to recoup the cost.  Hold out until you get a better idea of how dedicated you are to producing videos.

External Video recorder (Atomos Ninja Blade, Shogun, etc.): the 5dmk3 now outputs RAW 8bit 4:2:2 video via the hdmi output with the latest firmware.  Why record raw video?  Because it gives you far better color and shadow detail for post production.  It's almost like the difference between shooting RAW and JPEG photos...almost.  However, you may need a beefier computer to handle it.

Editing Equipment:
Computer: Honestly, just about anything with a quad core processor and 8GB or more of RAM should be enough to run any non-linear video editor like Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, or Final Cut Pro X.  That is unless you start recording RAW video or anything upwards of 200mbps.  If you don't have a fast RAID system for workflow and/or backup then I suggest investing in one...or two.  I use the Lacie 5 Big Thunderbolt 2 system.

Software:
Everyone has their preferences, and I use both Adobe Premiere CC and Final Cut Pro X.  Premiere works well for me in a multi person workflow where I'll likely be exporting projects to another person for color grading or adding visuals.  Final Cut Pro X can do the same...but it didn't start out that way when it was initially launched.  Though I find it's interface far easier to use for quickly editing video and color grading (without having to use Davinci resolve).  Quicker turn around means more time to do other projects.

Neat Video.  Yes, you need a noise reduction program and Neat is possibly the best at it for it's price.  Anything above ISO 3200 on the 5dmk3 is gonna show visible noise in low light situations.

Sorry for the uber long post.  I transitioned from photography into video production with a Rebel t2i back in 2010.  This is kinda like a summary of what I've learned in the last five years.  Now I do both as my day job.
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Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2015, 11:10:16 AM »
tiltshift,

I think I will go the route you mentioned and not use ML for the time being. I may add it later if I really feel like I need that little extra, but I think I will at least get into the basics of video without it allowing me to better understand the settings when/if I choose to download ML later on.


tinky,

Incredible advice! I'm beginning to see just how pricy it is going to be to do everything right. I'm thinking Premier is sounding better and better as the editing platform, but I think you are absolutely right regarding practice. We have several clients who have inquired about performing small videos (cake smashes, birthday parties, etc.). Yesterday I just booked our first video segment for a birthday party we are shooting in a couple of weeks. As funds increase on the video side, I'll be investing more and referring back to your list quite often.


David_in_Seattle,

First of all, I've always wanted to visit Seattle. Secondly, I very much appreciate your long, thought out response! I had not really considered f/4 lenses as something of interest, but the image stabilization of the lenses would be a definite plus. Our 70-200 2.8L ii is the image stabilized version, but I think you're right in the depth of field being too shallow. I think I'll probably invest in the audio you mentioned before I go after more lenses, but I definitely see the value in the lenses you are pointing out.

This type of summary is invaluable when growing a business. I always try to be as open and honest with others regarding what I've learned along the way and I very much appreciate you doing the same.


It looks like I have a little ways to go before hitting this head-on, but it's exciting!


Thank you all so much for your input! I will keep referencing your advice as I build the video side of our business.

Thank you again,
-Tabor
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Check out our Tulsa wedding photographers homepage!

Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2015, 01:05:11 PM »
I do not wish to be a bother, but I do have one more question; length of video?

How long should the finished product be? Everyone I have been looking at shows clips that are ~5-10 minutes long. Are these highlight reels or the finished product? I know it can be a decently vague question, but I'm trying to figure out if there is an industry standard of 30-60 minute videos or 5-10 minute videos. Any idea?

Thank you again,
-Tabor
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Besisika

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 01:30:54 PM »
I think the main question you should tell is if are you doing full video or fusion.
Full video requires tripod and a good zoom lens, while fusion requires mobility.
As someone stated, it is a totally different task compared to photography and requires different training and gear.
My opinion 50% of a video is sound, 35% is stabilization and only 15% is lighting (story apart).
Sound-wise: you can record everything or tap into a board and record only what comes out of it.
Stabilization separates amateur from pro. Depending on the task you can use tripod, monopod, glider, slider or handheld.
To handheld I use mainly macro 100mmL and the 24-70 F4 IS. Their IS with hoodloop gives good stabilization. Bigger lenses require good monopod and IS (I used to use the 300F4 but now I use 100-400 II). On a tripod I use 85 1.2 for super low light and 200 2.8 or 135 f2 for brighter. I rarely add video light, unless I do an interview or I know in advance where are they going to stand. I put in a softbox some 5000K lights.

If you are interested in fusion, go to youtube and search for Ray Roman or vanessa and rob. Their videos give you good start.

What really makes the difference btw photo and video is post processing. Video's are very time consuming and unless the cx is ready to pay more, I would stick to fusion. I use Davinci for color grading and Premiere for the rest.

Full video would be in hours. Fusion: 10-15min

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow and Equipment
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 01:30:54 PM »

Tabor Warren Photography

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow, Equipment, and length
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 01:40:07 PM »
Besisika,

Wow, thank you greatly for your insight!

Watching videos that are not stable drives me a little crazy. I'm going to need to do more digging to figure out what type of videos I would prefer to work with. It sounds like fusion is more of the type that I enjoy watching. Now I just need a ton of practice, and equipment for stabilizing. The 24-70 f/4L IS keeps popping up so it will likely be my next lens investment following methods for stabilization.

Thank you again for the information you provided! On to youtube!
-Tabor
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cayenne

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow, Equipment, and length
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 03:20:42 PM »
Hello!

We are looking to get into the videography market and I have two questions.

1) What software do you all use during your workflow? We have the photo workflow down to an art, but was not sure which software is most recommended for video work.

2) What extra equipment would you all recommend for the videography aspect of the wedding? Our current gear is designed around our wedding photography, but I assumed that it can be subbed for videography as well. Based on videographers I have worked with in the past, our output should be much better quality than those I have worked with in the past shooting video with their rebels, though I'm certainly not against investing in the cinema line if I need to.

My current lineup is;
4 5Diii's
17-40 f/4L
24 f/1.4L ii
24-70 f/2.8L ii
35 f/1.4L
50 f/1.2L
70-200 f/2.8L ii
85 f/1.2L ii
100 f/2.8L Macro IS

What else do I need?

Thank you for your expertise!
-Tabor

I shoot my stuff with a 5D3.

I bring my footage in with Lightroom, I have presets that bring in the video, catalogs it..and puts copies in my work area and to a backup NAS unit.

I use FCPX as my editor. ON next project I plan to start to teach myself Premier Pro...I figure it is good to know as many apps as you can.

I use Davinci Resolve for color correction and grading.

I use After Effects for well....SPFX.

I bring everything in to Davinci Resolve first after the files are on my work drive. I render off some prores medium level copies and XML.
I bring the XML into Final Cut Pro X...I do my editing, etc. there. When done, I usually make a project copy and strip out audio, etc. that was not in the original footage.  I generate XML out of the edit to bring into resolve.

I open resolve import the xml, tell it NOT to bring in the footage and that way, Resolve knows to use the original footage just edited to the specs FCPX says.

I do my color correction and then grading here...back to FCPX with xml for final tweaking. If I've done any AE work with the first set of FCPX clips, I go into AE and just replace those with the colored versions and render and put everything together in FCPX, I do my sound tweaking and then I render out the finished product.

That ALL being said....Davinici Resolve now has a pretty decent editor built into it. I would advise you get the Lite version (free and has about 99% of functionality of the paid version), get familiar with that and try full workflow through there...bring in...edit, color...render out finished product.  That would be the quickest way to likely start with NO money put out for it.

Resolve is from BlackMagic design..who is also putting out Fusion, that appears to be an After Effects rival...also for free.

Anyway..give that a try.

I would advise for sound, you get LAV mics hooked to small digital recorders on your talent/brides/grooms and sync sound later in post...good sound is very important. A good app that is cheap for syncing automagically is called PluralEyes...and you can incorporate it with your workflows in Premier or FCPX.

If you're on a mac...FCPX is only about $300 and very intuitive to learn. But like I said, I'm going to learn Premier too....you can never have too many toolsets under your belt. I think FCPX helps one learn the principals, and concepts of video editing a bit easier than something like Premier. From what I've found even though the editing platform is different, PP isn't that hard to pick up after you've learned about editing in general from FCPX. I'd think going the other way with PP first...might make it a bit tough to figure out and translate into FCPX...but, maybe not.

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Re: Getting into Videography | Workflow, Equipment, and length
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 03:20:42 PM »