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Author Topic: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]  (Read 31358 times)

K-amps

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2011, 10:51:39 AM »

Where did you see the prices go up? B&H have stayed the same.

Maybe I was having a senior moment when I remember them being $1989 at Adorama and $1999 at BH?
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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2011, 10:51:39 AM »

dilbert

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2011, 11:25:58 AM »

Where did you see the prices go up? B&H have stayed the same.

Maybe I was having a senior moment when I remember them being $1989 at Adorama and $1999 at BH?

The $1999 B&H price was for a click-through with this website.

I know that because I checked browsing B&H separately for the 5D2 vs using the URL on this website.

Kahuna

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #62 on: December 28, 2011, 12:01:27 PM »
Asides from pondering the announcement date, it will be interesting as to the content of the announcement?  Will Canon release a 5D Mark III with advanced video features and a 5D Mark III for stills ([CR2] May 31 2011)?   :-\

Iā€™d be more interested in the later or pondering moving on to medium format.

Just trying to stimulate our imaginations.

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2011, 12:01:45 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately I don't think the "Concept" DSLR is going to be targeted for the 5DII video market.  Canon announced and purposely showed off that "Concept DSLR" camera in their marketing materials next to the C-300 and the new cine lenses and PL mounts with the same "C" branding in red, therefore I think that camera is aimed at THAT market solely - Hollywood, where it was announced...not at the core 5DII community that shoots video.  I think it will be targeted to be used in conjunction with the C300s as B cams etc or others (indies with funding) as primary that are buying the $8K-$15K cine lenses as well... all the pictures I've seen of it from Canon show it with one of the new CN-E lenses which are obviously going to be well above EF-L glass in price.  I also don't think it was THAT early of a prototype either, else they wouldn't have included it in the C-300 announcement.  I think it's closer to market version vs concept.

Like you, I'd like to see a stills camera similar to the 1DsIII too (or alternately a new model/series FF stills camera in the $3-4K range) but since everyone is including video now I don't think we will.  With the 1Dx inclusive of video, I think that the prospect of a stills-only studio camera has left the building, even if the rumored huge MP camera comes out, I'm sure it will also shoot video.  I think the 5DIII will be targeted at the same exact market that loves their 5DIIs (stills and/or video both) in the $3K range, with no real surprises in the price/market area.  I'm guessing much akin to a FF 7D (AF, etc) hopefully with some of the new sensor/video features of the 1Dx.  Maybe we will all see soon now...

The announcement was that it was in development, they weren't actually announcing the product (no specs aside from 4k).  And a lot of people were saying that the C300 would be the great B cam, so I don't see why they would be so interested in the Cinema DSLR.  Of course the red "C" seems like it's geared towards the hollywood market, but that's only based on the products you've seen so far.  Yes the new Cinema primes will fit on the CDSLR, they're EF mount!  Any other Canon lens will fit on it so that doesn't tell us anything....

All I know is I'm part of the 5D video segment and I only got into DSLRs for the video side.  But there are things I hate about the 5DII and I really want a DSLR designed to shoot video.  NOT another stills camera that happens to shoot great video... 

I was thrilled when I saw that Canon was making an announcement, but disappointed when the C300 was revealed (since its not in my price range).  But I was only disappointed until I saw the concept DSLR, and that's what I'm waiting for.  It just seems like they only mentioned that to let the prosumers know that they will have something for them down the line.  And I'm sure Canon knows how eager people would be to get their hands on a "Cinema EOS" product. 

Of course the 5DIII will shoot video, but the 5D series is a stills camera at heart.  Canon didn't know the 5D would take off in the video world the way it did, they wouldn't be such a pain in the ass to shoot video with otherwise.
 

Unfortunately, I think the Cinema EOS 4k concept camera will be a $20,000 product- it was announced to keep Canon video users from investing in Scarlet-X, the only other 4k capable camera out there within reach. If the HD-only C300 is $16,000, it seems unlikely they would undercut that with a 4k DSLR at a lower cost. Of course, I hope I'm wrong.

My hunch is they'll improve the video in the 5DIII to match the 1DX (with maybe a few other goodies- HDR video, anyone?), and let us, the low-budget filmmaking crowd use that while they market the 4k Cinema EOS camera for the Hollywood/rental market/higher budget crowd.

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2011, 12:10:15 PM »
From Thom Hogan's blog (bythom.com):
"Sometime in early 2012 we're going to have the full FX body updates from both Canon and Nikon. In the case of the 5DII and D700 follow ups, there will be substantive pixel increases (the rumors put both in the 30's)."

Elsewhere he says this:
"... the camera makers--specifically Nikon and Canon--had concluded about pixels versus target customer. My conclusion: they think that the amateur/enthusiast will respond more to pixels, the professional more to low-level pixel integrity. Thus, we'll get more pixels in the lower cost bodies."

Thom Hogan's leaks (NOT his predictions though) are typically spot on.

Useful information to share. Thanks! It just seems like with the interviews conducted in Japan of late that Canon are not actually planning a high MP body for the enthusiast market. I hope Tom Hogan is right. It's one of the few things keeping me solidly in the Canon camp for a dslr right now. Because everything that has been leaked about the rumored the D800 sounds like my dream camera.

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2011, 12:19:55 PM »
I kind of hope this rumor is wrong actually. If Canon really intends to announce a 5DIII in March or April it's probably not going to be the camera many of us want. The 5DII severely undercut sales of the 1Ds III as the image quality of the 5DII was better, it had a larger ISO range and files were more flexible in editing. It's true that the 1Ds III had better weather sealing, a longer lasting shutter and dual card slots along with a far superior AF system but for a lot of people that wasn't worth triple the money.

If a 5DIII is announced in March or April it will not be a mini 1Dx as that would kill 1Dx initial sales. So an early announcement like the one rumored means that the new 5D will likely be the camera many of us hope it's not; a slow focusing, way too high (uselessly high) megapixel camera that doesn't compare to the 1Dx in high ISO performance so that people who were waiting for a body with the 1Dx's features won't consider a much cheaper option in the new 5D. A later announcement could mean a repeat of replacing the sensor with the flagship sensor after the flagship body has had a healthy amount of time on the market.

Alternatively the upgrades to the next 5D could focus on video. Either way, for still shooters I don't see an early announcement as a positive thing.

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2011, 12:35:43 PM »
Well said..Agreed +1

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2011, 12:35:43 PM »

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2011, 12:43:22 PM »
Quote
If Canon really intends to announce a 5DIII in March or April it's probably not going to be the camera many of us want.

That's a statement that is true regardless of announcement or release date.  ;):)

lightroom

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2011, 01:06:42 PM »
+1

Nikon D4 is a response to Canon's 1DX. With D800 rumored around, 5D mark III could be Canon's response. Plus with previous lessons leaned that 5D II ate a lot of market from 1D III, this time Canon definitely doesn't want to see this happen again.

Don't know who came up the idea first, maybe Canon kept the secret very well... although it seems D800 rumor came out first, doesn't matter who follows who. One thing seems happening for sure is that they will be similar in pixel power. But Canon won't let D800 to outpace with AF, although it may not come up something very similar in AF wise, but it will win from somewhere else which Canon is good at, maybe better ISO? or lower price? wild guess, we will see...

I kind of hope this rumor is wrong actually. If Canon really intends to announce a 5DIII in March or April it's probably not going to be the camera many of us want. The 5DII severely undercut sales of the 1Ds III as the image quality of the 5DII was better, it had a larger ISO range and files were more flexible in editing. It's true that the 1Ds III had better weather sealing, a longer lasting shutter and dual card slots along with a far superior AF system but for a lot of people that wasn't worth triple the money.

If a 5DIII is announced in March or April it will not be a mini 1Dx as that would kill 1Dx initial sales. So an early announcement like the one rumored means that the new 5D will likely be the camera many of us hope it's not; a slow focusing, way too high (uselessly high) megapixel camera that doesn't compare to the 1Dx in high ISO performance so that people who were waiting for a body with the 1Dx's features won't consider a much cheaper option in the new 5D. A later announcement could mean a repeat of replacing the sensor with the flagship sensor after the flagship body has had a healthy amount of time on the market.

Alternatively the upgrades to the next 5D could focus on video. Either way, for still shooters I don't see an early announcement as a positive thing.

D_Rochat

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2011, 02:14:34 PM »
Nikon Rumors seem to be 99% confident that the have the D800 specs. It'll be interesting to see how similar the 5D III turns out to be. With Nikon, there seems to be a clear separation between the D800 and D4. I suspect Canon is doing the same.

Nikon Rumors D800

    36 MP sensor (7360x4912) :o
    100% viewfinder coverage
    Improved AF with face recognition ā€“ the D800 will still have 51 points AF point
    CF+SD memory card slots
    USB 3.0
    ISO range: 100 ā€“ 6400, ISO LO @ 50 and  ISO HI-2 @ 25600
    The screen will be larger than 3 inches (probably 3.2 in.)
    The D800 will not have built-in GPS
    Expeed 3 processor
    There will be two different D800 versions/models, one with the antialiasing filter removed
    4 fps continuous shooting, about 6 fps in DX mode with optional battery pack
    Video modes: 1080p/30/25/24 and 720p/60/30/25/24
    Headphone jack, can input from an external device such as a PCM sound recorder
    86k pixels RGB sensor
    200,000 shutter cycles
    Uncompressed HDMI video out (just like the Nikon D4)


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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2011, 02:38:17 PM »
I kind of hope this rumor is wrong actually. If Canon really intends to announce a 5DIII in March or April it's probably not going to be the camera many of us want. The 5DII severely undercut sales of the 1Ds III as the image quality of the 5DII was better, it had a larger ISO range and files were more flexible in editing. It's true that the 1Ds III had better weather sealing, a longer lasting shutter and dual card slots along with a far superior AF system but for a lot of people that wasn't worth triple the money.

If a 5DIII is announced in March or April it will not be a mini 1Dx as that would kill 1Dx initial sales. So an early announcement like the one rumored means that the new 5D will likely be the camera many of us hope it's not; a slow focusing, way too high (uselessly high) megapixel camera that doesn't compare to the 1Dx in high ISO performance so that people who were waiting for a body with the 1Dx's features won't consider a much cheaper option in the new 5D. A later announcement could mean a repeat of replacing the sensor with the flagship sensor after the flagship body has had a healthy amount of time on the market.

Alternatively the upgrades to the next 5D could focus on video. Either way, for still shooters I don't see an early announcement as a positive thing.

Hopefully they won't go overboard on fear of losing 1DX sales and have everyone just decide to keep their 5D2 or go D800 instead.

If it has 10-15MP increase and the rest is the same, not sure that would go over very well at all.

If the video is also much improved (no moire, etc.) that would be a big plus and that might bring some of the film guys on but some might wait for it in the 7D2 or 70D to get it at lower price or for when closer to 35mm film size is better.

If they also fix up the AF to a huge degree, maybe even go 1D4 AF and bump fps to match 50D then they really have something impressive though, IMO.

Hopefully they would consider weaker sealing and only 6fps and not the full on new 1DX AF alone enough to not worry about 1DX sales too much (the people who really must have 1DX speed won't want to settle for 6fps, no way, at least not for the main camera and they might want the, hopefully, ALL THAT new 1DX AF too, at least for the primary body and if they lose a few second body sales here and there to a 7D2 or 5D3 then so be it better that than to Nikon or to people just sticking with whatever they already have? and those who will compromise a bit will compromise anyway once things are just a bit off the top so why crippled the lower lines THAT much).

Part of me actually thinks they will do it right and the summer release also seems better than the winter releases too (people can get it in time for big summer trips, summer photography, weddings, summer and fall sports hmm maybe they want both bodies out for London 2012 too as opposed to the ever later in the year releases when the bodies would come out too late even for fall foliage or end of fall wedding and sports seasons. Yeah, yeah, that is being a bit northern hemisphere and cold weather latitude biased but that is where probably a large chunk of the world's camera buying population lives).

But part of me thinks they will be same old slow, reactive kings on the hill (until they one day fall) dribbling out scraps, as few as they possibly imagine to dare after spying on Nikon, and it will be 30-36MP, 3-4fps, slow response, long mirror black out, a crippled (or by a miracle full) 7D AF system only (and I find that for some things I actually trust 7D AF less than 5D2 AF I should say). They don't seem to be in the mood to push things and be charging forward on all fronts like the old Canon. Personally I could easily see just grabbing a 70D or 7D2 for better video then and sticking with 5D2 or maybe finally giving Nikon a good look if the D800 is the monster that many rumors claim if they hold the specs back too too much.


Axilrod

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2011, 04:05:34 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately, I think the Cinema EOS 4k concept camera will be a $20,000 product- it was announced to keep Canon video users from investing in Scarlet-X, the only other 4k capable camera out there within reach. If the HD-only C300 is $16,000, it seems unlikely they would undercut that with a 4k DSLR at a lower cost. Of course, I hope I'm wrong.

My hunch is they'll improve the video in the 5DIII to match the 1DX (with maybe a few other goodies- HDR video, anyone?), and let us, the low-budget filmmaking crowd use that while they market the 4k Cinema EOS camera for the Hollywood/rental market/higher budget crowd.

There is nothing suggesting the CDSLR will cost that much, just bc it's 4k doesn't automatically mean it's going to be more expensive (Scarlet is 4k and costs less than the C300.  I'm just saying that if the C300 was their "big gun" they would have waited and announced that first.  It would have been foolish to release a new camera and announce a better camera at the same time. 

I doubt it will have HD-SDI outs, built in ND's, etc like the C300.  If you figure the 1DX is $6800, take away the costs for the crazy AF and the 10-12fps and I'm sure it could be taken down to $5k.  What could they possibly add to that body that would increase the price by $12k-$15k and make it a better camera than the C300?

Technology is getting cheaper by the day, and hell the new iPhone does 1080p and looks damn good for what it is.  This camera isn't going to be announced for another year, so who knows how much cheaper things will be by then.

Even at first glance it seems apparent that the C300 is the superior camera (based on looks of course).  If the CDSLR is $20k that would mean that the 5DIII is the next video DSLR (even though both the previous 5D's were still cameras), and that move just doesn't make sense.  There are photographers that never use the video features on their 5DII and there are videographers that don't use the still features of the camera, so why make both segments pay for features they don't need/want?

I could be completely wrong about all of this, but that's my reasoning more or less.

Last thing, check out the group shot of all the cinema gear :
If the CDSLR is the "flagship" of the line why is it tucked off in the corner?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 04:14:19 PM by Axilrod »
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2011, 04:18:15 PM »
Hopefully they won't go overboard on fear of losing 1DX sales and have everyone just decide to keep their 5D2 or go D800 instead.

+1: Don't want them to be that paranoid... if they make a decent 5d3, it might just make them a whole lot more money then the 1dx... they should not cripple it as much as some of us think they will...
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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2011, 04:18:15 PM »

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2011, 05:06:46 PM »
+1: Don't want them to be that paranoid... if they make a decent 5d3, it might just make them a whole lot more money then the 1dx... they should not cripple it as much as some of us think they will...

I don't think they will. It looks like both Canon and Nikon are doing the same thing by eliminating the 1DsIII and D3x series from their line-up so they can focus sales in that area to the 5DIII and D800 while gearing the 1Dx and D4 to Photojournalists and action photographers. I think they are in the beginning stages of cleaning up the zD line and making more definitive classes of cameras to choose from. I'm sure Canon and Nikon have shared strategies to a certain extent with these cameras and just like the 1Dx and D4 being similar, I'm sure the 5DIII and D800 will be as well.

I'm more interested in seeing where they go with the 7DII now that it will be the only crop sensor body in the zD line. I'm sure the Wildlife photographers are going to miss the extra reach from the 1DIV and use of extenders (not all super telephoto lenses will be usable with extenders on the 1Dx). Will Canon throw them a bone with the 7D?

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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2011, 06:00:55 PM »
I've said it before and i'll say it again they HAVE to put a proper AF system in the 5D at the moment Nikon's AF system runs rings around the stuff canon users have to put up with. Perhaps the 5D was not intended as a professional camera however it has become a professional workhorse accross many areas. This should be a clear indicator to canon that there is a need for a properly built and properly featured smaller form factor Pro Body. I really dont want a 1Dx maybe once native high ISO raws get out into the wild i might change my mind.
I dont care if it costs $3500 to $4000 which is where the rumor mill is putting the D800
but for that I expect at least
- the 49 Point AF system of the 1Dmk4,
- 5 or 6 FPS
- if they use the 18MP 1Dx sensor thats just fine with me too, hell they could use the current 21MP sensor because It really awesome, I am sure with the newer tech digics and all the extra processing power they could clean up the high iso by a stop on the existing sensor and have 6400 perform at the current 3200 level
- keep the body basically the same but give it 1D weather sealing and toughness
- include 7 AEB i mean come on 3 on a high end bosy is just silly.
- boost the customisation options, the 5DII is very very light on being able to tweek things compared to the 1D.
- Put in a wireless flash control I mean come on the 600D can wireless control multiple speedlights.
- They need to remember that DSLR primary market is STILL Shooting video is a nice toy that I never use, I dont care if they include it or not to be honest but I dont want it to take anything away from the still functionality that the camera is designed to be

If the D800 is as good as it is rumoured to be and the 5D3 remains crippled Many shooters myslef included are going to be seriously considering changing back to Nikon, which isnt a decision to be taken lightly and invariably ends up costing quite a bit to sell off a lot of gear and then buy it all again.

There are many aspects of the canon system I prefer to Nikon however AF is one of the most important parts of the camera it needs to just work, not be something you have to work around or struggle with and produce good images in spite of.

there we go rant over :)
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Re: 5D Mark III Sooner Than Later [CR2]
« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2011, 06:00:55 PM »