7D Mark II for Photokina? [CR1]

[Axilrod]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

[briansquibb]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile   

[Lee Jay]

If they put a descent AF in with the ability to autofocus up to F8 it would be a great wildlife camera.

If they put in f/8 AF sensors, I'll almost certainly be a customer (for the camera and two pieces of Canon optics).  Otherwise, probably not - at least for a good while.

How much trouble could it be to install one cross f/8 AF point in the center?  I'd be happy with that.

[AprilForever]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?
Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.
New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII.......And you're talking about 2 cameras that we know absolutely nothing about, but I'm guessing there won't be that much of a difference, probably less than 1 stop.

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile   

Seems like not a lot of distance between each other in the pile... seems also that dynamic range has almost nothing to do with sensor size...

Perhaps, it has more to do with programming and other technology?

[briansquibb]

If they put a descent AF in with the ability to autofocus up to F8 it would be a great wildlife camera.

If they put in f/8 AF sensors, I'll almost certainly be a customer (for the camera and two pieces of Canon optics).  Otherwise, probably not - at least for a good while.

How much trouble could it be to install one cross f/8 AF point in the center?  I'd be happy with that.

Rather like the APS-H and AF in the 1D4 - there is another reason then ....

[Edwin Herdman]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

Who wants a FF 5D Mark III and not a 7D Mark II?

At present it looks like the market can have both.

It's a very simple-minded thing to believe that the announcement of a 7D successor would stop a 5D successor - they've coexisted up to now and neither "steps on the other's toes."  If anything, we're pulling for the 5D to have better AF capability - the 7D is a godsend because it has a superior AF system at an inferior price

Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.

Worthwhile compared to what?  At what price?  It won't replace the 5D, so you can stop worrying already.

New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

Why should we care what would make you upgrade from your 60D?

I'm still not convinced. I'm sure they care just enough to not have their customer's running to another company.

Ditching EF-S support would make that a lot easier for many users.

For me personally, EF-S is almost a non-issue since I have no EF-S lenses - however, messing with the crop factor would be a big problem.

[briansquibb]

Who wants a 7D mk2 and not a FF 5Dmk3 with more dynamic range?

Who wants a FF 5D Mark III and not a 7D Mark II?

At present it looks like the market can have both.

It's a very simple-minded thing to believe that the announcement of a 7D successor would stop a 5D successor - they've coexisted up to now and neither "steps on the other's toes."  If anything, we're pulling for the 5D to have better AF capability - the 7D is a godsend because it has a superior AF system at an inferior price

Would a 21Mpixel 7D with more dynamic range from a better sensor and digic 5 be worthwhile.

Worthwhile compared to what?  At what price?  It won't replace the 5D, so you can stop worrying already.

New is good, but why would i upgrade from a 60D?

Why should we care what would make you upgrade from your 60D?

I'm still not convinced. I'm sure they care just enough to not have their customer's running to another company.

Ditching EF-S support would make that a lot easier for many users.

For me personally, EF-S is almost a non-issue since I have no EF-S lenses - however, messing with the crop factor would be a big problem.

+1 [applaud]

[KeithR]

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile   

If you fall for DxOMark's skewed, entirely-unrepresentative-of-real-world-use way of getting their figures...

You forget the 5D Mk II's problem with banding/pattern noise at high ISO which chews right into it's usable DR.

[briansquibb]

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile   

If you fall for DxOMark's skewed, entirely-unrepresentative-of-real-world-use way of getting their figures...

You forget the 5D Mk II's problem with banding/pattern noise at high ISO which chews right into it's usable DR.

I have  the 7D, 5DII and the 1D4 and their tests match my observations. Are you seriously going to tell me that the 7D does landscapes better than the 5DII?, are you seriously going to tell me that the 7D does high iso better than the 5DII? Ah the banding factor - happens at an iso which is well past anything the 7D can think of.

If you have better measurements let us see them.

[AprilForever]

According to DxO dynamic ranges:

7D: 11.7 evs
5DII : 11.9evs
1D4: 12 evs
1Ds3: 12 evs

So the 7D is the bottom of the pile   

If you fall for DxOMark's skewed, entirely-unrepresentative-of-real-world-use way of getting their figures...

You forget the 5D Mk II's problem with banding/pattern noise at high ISO which chews right into it's usable DR.

I have  the 7D, 5DII and the 1D4 and their tests match my observations. Are you seriously going to tell me that the 7D does landscapes better than the 5DII?, are you seriously going to tell me that the 7D does high iso better than the 5DII? Ah the banding factor - happens at an iso which is well past anything the 7D can think of.

If you have better measurements let us see them.

I don't think that's what he's saying... he's saying that they have very close dynamic ranges... there are other factors to landscape capture than just dynamic range...

For ultimate landscape image quality, get an old crown graphic and upgrade to 4x5...

[briansquibb]

I don't think that's what he's saying... he's saying that they have very close dynamic ranges... there are other factors to landscape capture than just dynamic range...

For ultimate landscape image quality, get an old crown graphic and upgrade to 4x5...

"The 7D has a better dynamic range than the 5DII" - that is what was said, not much room for misinterpretation there.

The anti APS-H brigade forget that Canon have spent a lot of time and money developing APS-H and producing what is still probably the best all round camera. Why they should they ditch it and focus on the APS-C which is getting harder and harder to develop? Why spend more and more on developing APS-C just to catch up with APS-H?

I understand the 7D is the best of the APS-C but it will get increasingly difficult and expensive to push the boundaries - the larger sensors have a lot more headroom that could be more easier utilised using existing technology.

Yes I would love to see Canon make a digital 6x4 - that would make a fabulous camera using 1DX technology.

However consumer costs get in the way of top cameras - I already know of users that want smaller and lighter cameras, mostly because of their limited strength.

I think you can assume that IQ potential is roughtly proportional to sensor size - I do believe that ff will deliver better IQ than APS-H in the same way that APS-H will deliver better than APS-C.

[AprilForever]

And may the mighty engineers of Kwanon push those boundaries evermore!!!

[pwp]

A perfect way for Canon to alienate 7D owners who have a bag full of EF-S glass would be to ship the 7DII with an APS-H sensor.

They won't do it.

Paul Wright

[briansquibb]

No one is suggesting that the 7D becomes a APS-H. What is being suggested is that APS-H is not dead and will be in the natural upgrade for the 7D - the so called 3D (see the other thread)

This suggestion is based on announcements made in 2010 regarding the development of the APS-H sensor. APS-C is reaching the technology limits where incremental improvements can be made. All the higher mps APS-C sensors are struggling toget noise/IQ under control at higher ISO - ie the Nikon/Sony 24mps APS-C sensor.

There is plenty of headroom for the APS-H sensor still as can be seen in this Canon press release:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2010/8/24/canon120mpsensor

As for a bagfull of EF-S glass - just imagine a 55-250 on a 7DII - yuk - just 2 decent EF-S lens are being made, so how many 7D owners only have EF-S lens and not L grade lens?

Another article for you to read:

http://photorumors.com/2010/06/09/canon-aps-h-1-3x-mirrorless/

No sign of any reference about APS-H being killed off - sounds like another myth that is being perpetrated

[pwp]

No one is suggesting that the 7D becomes a APS-H. What is being suggested is that APS-H is not dead and will be in the natural upgrade for the 7D - the so called 3D.
No sign of any reference about APS-H being killed off - sounds like another myth that is being perpetrated

Thanks Brian, as usual you've made some good points.

Personally I don't own an APS-C body or any EF-S glass but can empathize with the handful of xxD and Rebel owners who may feel as though they have painted themselves into a corner with a constrained upgrade path with their 100% EF-S kit.

APS-H? I've valued the format since the original 1D and currently the 1D4. Yep, I do hope it's not being killed off.

Paul Wright