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Author Topic: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files  (Read 3326 times)

skitron

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Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« on: January 02, 2012, 11:09:21 AM »
I have been a big proponent of Capture One Pro 6 as it has allowed for very good results when processing and converting files from a 50D and 60D. However, the sharpening and color noise reduction are virtually useless when processing 5D2 files.

The sharpening introduces all sorts of bright blue pixels in the blacks when shot at ISO 3200. The color noise reduction doesn't do anything at all until a certain threshold where it then looks like an animation effect and then becomes something that looks like a massive Gaussian blur.

Oddly there are no such problems with 50D/60D files and no such problems with the same 5D2 files under ACR or DPP. Seems totally bizarre that CO would be so good with the 15MP and 18MP files and so horrible with a 21MP file...makes no sense. I even reinstalled the software to try to resolve it.

Sad, because the the CO product is fantastic in terms of it's toolset and workflow. But if sharpening and color NR don't work for 5D2 files it all becomes useless for me. Unfortunately their support informed me it is "user error" which is unacceptable.

So now to buy LR since the ACR noise reduction and sharpening is excellent on 5D2 files.
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Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« on: January 02, 2012, 11:09:21 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2012, 11:20:43 AM »
Have you looked at DxO Optics Pro?  I find the NR excellent and the lens corrections better than ACR.  I'd suggest downloading the free trials of both...
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skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2012, 11:49:49 AM »
Have you looked at DxO Optics Pro?  I find the NR excellent and the lens corrections better than ACR.  I'd suggest downloading the free trials of both...

I'll check it out before I pull the trigger. Lens correction isn't a big draw for me since I'm basically a people shooter, but it would be nice to have none the less. Do you know if DxO can handle the distortion of a Samyang 14 mm? LOL, if it can handle that one they really have something.

I was extremely impressed with the Sharpening and NR in the latest ACR, subjectively gained three stops, maybe four over what I could get out of Capture One Pro 6 on the 5D2 files. And again, I had excellent results with Capture One and 50D/60D files, so it was bizarre to get such poor performance with the 5D2 files.
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KeithR

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2012, 12:00:37 PM »
The sharpening introduces all sorts of bright blue pixels in the blacks when shot at ISO 3200.

This is precisely why I stopped doing capture sharpening - I've "discussed" Cap One's sharpening and NR at length on their forum, and concluded that a big part of the problem was the sharpening itself. I agree though, the NR algorithm is pretty crappy, and I see the same thing as you (at close views) at high ISO on my 7D's files.

Quote
The color noise reduction doesn't do anything at all until a certain threshold where it then looks like an animation effect and then becomes something that looks like a massive Gaussian blur.

I actually quite like Cap One's chroma NR on my 40D and 7D files - on medium-to-high ISO files anyway - but nothing would make me choose Cap One over Lightroom at high ISO, where I don't capture sharpen any more either, incidentally.

Quote
So now to buy LR since the ACR noise reduction and sharpening is excellent on 5D2 files.

That's the way to go, I'm afraid - although if you've already got ACR...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 12:02:24 PM by KeithR »

skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »
Quote
So now to buy LR since the ACR noise reduction and sharpening is excellent on 5D2 files.

That's the way to go, I'm afraid - although if you've already got ACR...

The only way I can access it is thru PSE unless I'm unaware of another way. Is it an .exe somewhere that will run as a stand alone?
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skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 12:32:01 PM »

Quote
The color noise reduction doesn't do anything at all until a certain threshold where it then looks like an animation effect and then becomes something that looks like a massive Gaussian blur.

I actually quite like Cap One's chroma NR on my 40D and 7D files - on medium-to-high ISO files anyway - but nothing would make me choose Cap One over Lightroom at high ISO, where I don't capture sharpen any more either, incidentally.

Yes, the 50D and 60D files look great from Capture One. It is bizarre the 5D2 files were so bad.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 12:36:06 PM »
Do you know if DxO can handle the distortion of a Samyang 14 mm? LOL, if it can handle that one they really have something.

It does very well with the >4% distortion at the wide end of the 24-105mm. But, it seems DxO doesn't support Samyang lenses.
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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2012, 12:36:06 PM »

skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 12:48:49 PM »
Do you know if DxO can handle the distortion of a Samyang 14 mm? LOL, if it can handle that one they really have something.


It does very well with the >4% distortion at the wide end of the 24-105mm. But, it seems DxO doesn't support Samyang lenses.


The reason I asked about that particular lens is it has a pronounced "mustache" barrel distortion (see http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/532-samyang14f28eosff?start=1).
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 03:28:57 PM »
Though the Canon 10-22mm doesn't have too much distortion, it has mustache distortion, and DxO does fine with that.
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skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 09:59:50 PM »
Well, it looks like I will have to retract my criticism of Capture One. I just spent an hour on a single shot from the 5D2 at ISO 3200 in both Capture One Pro 6 (latest) and Adobe Camera Raw (latest). I worked each of them to get the best results I could get and in the end was happier with the Capture One image. This was due to CO's vastly superior color tools and rendition, which granted can probably be matched within Photoshop, but this was purely a RAW processor comparison.

That said, it is a bit perplexing that I would have to use such different settings in CO for a 50D file vs a 5D2 file, but it does deliver the goods so I'm good with it. It was a bit more complex to get the desired result in CO in this case  since I had to go to the "levels" RGB-histo-graph-adjustment-thingy :D to get the blacks to a point where they dropped the blue noise the way ACR does with it's simple "blacks" slider. But then, the CO tool is way more powerful than a simple slider (and I've used it for all sorts of other things than weakening blacks to drop blue noise).

So glad I spent the hour testing, it turned out to be time well spent and I suppose their user support was right that it was a case of 'user error' (though I still question why it is so different between 50D and 5D2 files).
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KeithR

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2012, 04:01:43 PM »
Well, it looks like I will have to retract my criticism of Capture One. I just spent an hour on a single shot from the 5D2 at ISO 3200 in both Capture One Pro 6 (latest) and Adobe Camera Raw (latest). I worked each of them to get the best results I could get and in the end was happier with the Capture One image. This was due to CO's vastly superior color tools and rendition


Agree with you about the colour rendition too - that's why it's still my choice for all but my highest ISO files.

I still think you've made valid observations about Cap One's failings at high ISOs - it is much harder to get satisfactory results from it than from Adobe's software - but I think they might have done a little bit of under-the-bonnet (hood) tweaking of the code, because I think the latest version of Cap One is a bit more usable on high ISO files than was previously the case.

Mind you, if the image is properly exposed, Cap One isn't bad - this is 3200 ISO:



And this is 6400 ISO:



Both with the 7D.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 04:25:08 PM by KeithR »

skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 05:33:40 PM »
I still think you've made valid observations about Cap One's failings at high ISOs - it is much harder to get satisfactory results from it than from Adobe's software - but I think they might have done a little bit of under-the-bonnet (hood) tweaking of the code, because I think the latest version of Cap One is a bit more usable on high ISO files than was previously the case.

After going thru that exercise, I was able to get equivalent results in terms of NR and sharpening between CO and ACR at high ISO but ACR was a simple matter of messing with sliders till it looked good and CO was a little more involved. No big deal now I know how to do it though.

Probably the oddest thing about CO is the slider results are so vastly different between a 50D file and a 5D2 file. The 50D file handled about the same way between CO and ACR whereas the 5D2 file handled way different (and the 5D2 file handled similarly to the 50D file in ACR). XTi, 50D and 60D files handled about the same way. So in the end, just something to get accustomed to and I'm glad, because the workflow and color management color correction tools are awesome and I didn't want to give that up. LOL I was even conjuring up a ACR to TIFF to CO workflow as a contingency...

Also the HDR tools in CO are very good and fast to use. I'll try to post a snapshot a relative made that I HDR'd in CO to illustrate later tonight.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 05:35:55 PM by skitron »
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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 08:34:33 AM »
Do you know if DxO can handle the distortion of a Samyang 14 mm? LOL, if it can handle that one they really have something.


I am a prowd owner of the Samyang 14mm f/2.8, it's such an awesome lens, and even more considering the price tag.
I've found out a software to correct its weird distortion which is called PTLens, you can find it here, it has the profiles also for our beloved UWA lens. http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/
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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 08:34:33 AM »

skitron

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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 12:43:18 AM »
Do you know if DxO can handle the distortion of a Samyang 14 mm? LOL, if it can handle that one they really have something.


I am a prowd owner of the Samyang 14mm f/2.8, it's such an awesome lens, and even more considering the price tag.
I've found out a software to correct its weird distortion which is called PTLens, you can find it here, it has the profiles also for our beloved UWA lens. http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/


Many thanks for the heads up on this! I've d/l'd it and will do an eval in the next few days. Don't need correction very often but this looks like it's a very good option.

LOL, if I like it I suppose I'll be buying the Samyang 14. Love their 35 so far.
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Re: Two thumbs down for Capture One Pro 6 with 5D2 files
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2012, 12:43:18 AM »