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Author Topic: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.  (Read 16290 times)

Zeidora

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5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« on: July 13, 2015, 01:07:41 PM »
I've been playing around with the new 5D sr to see how it behaves in the macro area. I shot some small orchid flowers, total height 2 mm each, with MPE 65 mm at 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 5:1 and with TC 1.4xIII at 7:1. Each set at f/2.8 and f/4: all open for maximum resolution (here meant as the traditional separating two points in object), and 1 stop down for possible aberration correction and overall improved IQ. Between 60 and 175 frames were shot per set-up. Flashed manually with MT-24Ex at around 1/64-1/32 power, so very short exposure times. Flash heads mounted off lens to ensure consistent illumination angles. Stacking done on Cogynsis Stackshot with steps down to 19 µm. Stacking steps calculated as 70% of DoF with c = 0.03 mm in 8 x 10" print.

Processing on 6 core MacPro soup can with 32 GB RAM. Mac OS Yosemite does not reliably display thumbnails of CR2 file icons in finder. No idea why. RAW files were run through DxO (latest download). In previous DxO you could double click one image in directory, and all images in that directory would load, but this leads to many errors and hang-ups with 5Ds files and latest DxO version. Drag-drop images into the DxO interface is 100% reliable. It takes time to process >100 files, but can be done on MacPro. Activity monitor had all processors going full throttle for several minutes, with quite a bit of heat coming out of the vent. I would not advise doing that on a laptop.

In previous tests with 5D2 files, RAW file processing was quicker in DxO than in PS CS5.5 extended with batch processing.

Stacking in Zerene with 300 MB 16 bit .tif files was flawless. For me the P-max algorithm works best.

With the huge file sizes and small pixels, the question arises at what magnification is nothing gained anymore in terms of better information? This point is reached at 4:1, where f/2.8 becomes effective f-stop f/14. This is a bit higher than what diffraction limited calculations arrive at (f/6.7–11, in most discussions). f/4 resulted in slightly softer images.
Comparing 5D2 images of same plant to the 5D sr, 5D2 still gains information at 5:1 (did not try 7:1), but still on fewer pixels. With 5D sr you can take a larger field of view at 4:1, print larger, and crop heavier, and get same information, mostly as expected.

Attached is a 4:1 f/2.8 image, 111 image stack: full image height down sampled to 1000 pixels, cropped some of the black side areas out. Again, flowers are 2 mm high, the bubbles are individual cells, about 20–40 µm in diameter, resolution limit seems to be at around 10 µm, which is about right for anything short of epi objective lenses on compound microscope. On dedicated stereomicroscope you can get down to around 4–6 µm (1.22 lamda/NA).

Enjoy!
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

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5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« on: July 13, 2015, 01:07:41 PM »

tolusina

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 03:31:51 PM »
Could you, would you please post a 100% crop?
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Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 03:45:14 PM »
Could you, would you please post a 100% crop?

Here you go. For clarifications, shooting style neutral, no USM or any further processing done.
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tolusina

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 03:50:25 PM »

Here you go. For clarifications, shooting style neutral, no USM or any further processing done.
Oh my yes, thanks!
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Click

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2015, 04:51:03 PM »
Thanks for posting. Excellent work.

Well done, Zeidora.

Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 05:03:39 PM »
Glad you like it. If anybody wonders why the bottom flowers are out of focus, that is done intentionally. Top focal plane is at top edge of flower, bottom edge at bottom of green stalk (rachis of inflorescence). You can get weird artifacts when you have near-overlapping elements in very different focal planes. And it is also visually confusing; I think one expects something to be out of focus, so if everything is sharp, then one looses a key for what is where in 3D.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

Halfrack

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 10:54:40 PM »
Very nice, an extreme level of detail.

I'm pretty sure that Canon isn't the one that'll make all the money off the 5DsR, it's Intel, Apple, SanDisk, Crucial, and Seagate/WD because even throwing a MacPro at it, the files are huge, complex and multiplying faster than rabbits.
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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 10:54:40 PM »

Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 12:59:36 AM »
Very nice, an extreme level of detail.

I'm pretty sure that Canon isn't the one that'll make all the money off the 5DsR, it's Intel, Apple, SanDisk, Crucial, and Seagate/WD because even throwing a MacPro at it, the files are huge, complex and multiplying faster than rabbits.

I've been doing z-stacking for a while, so not much new here. RAW files are 2.5 the size of 5d2. Smaller stacking steps due to larger f-stop are possibly counterbalance by lower max magnification (= fewer steps) that is need to get all the detail possible. The .tifs are just temp files anyway; I throw them away after I have the stacked product file. So I only keep the original RAWs plus the output Zerene .tif.
Example: 100 stack = 100x50 MB RAWs = 5 GB, 100 x 300 MB 16 bit tifs = 30 GB of temp files. Final output files is 1 300 MB 16 bit .tif: total storage space about 5.3 GB. With 5d2 it is 2.1 GB + 120 MB = 2.2 GB.

I got a couple of 32 GB Lexar 1066x CF cards, but those do fill up rather quickly (around 400+ shots). I will pick up at least one 128 GB card.

I already had a 3 TB RAID1 LaCie 2big via thunderbolt as my main data drive. The internal 500 GB MacPro disk is only for OS, apps and scratch disk. Deep storage is on a 8 TB LaCIe 4big RAID1, still with plenty of space.

One more expense that is coming is 1-2 NEC 32" 4k displays.

Seeing my images exhibited at the Smithsonian: priceless :-)
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

Valvebounce

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 09:44:10 AM »
Hi Zeidora.
That is incredible detail, thanks for showing it to us.

Cheers, Graham.
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NancyP

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2015, 10:19:03 AM »
Wow! Thanks for the information. I am a mere newbie at macro in the 1:1 and higher range.
What is this lovely flower? A terrestrial orchid? It reminds me a bit of some I see in Missouri.

Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2015, 05:07:21 PM »
Wow! Thanks for the information. I am a mere newbie at macro in the 1:1 and higher range.
What is this lovely flower? A terrestrial orchid? It reminds me a bit of some I see in Missouri.

Have fun jumping into >1:1 macro. Loads of fun!

The orchid is tropical epiphyte in the genus Oberonia. It just flowered the first time, and I try to figure out what it is. It is somewhat similar to O. aff. lunata, but is not quite it. Occurrence, not sure. Obtained it with provenance from Taiwan, but does not exist there. So could be anywhere from India through Solomon Islands, more or less. Only about 300 species in the genus ...
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HighLowISO

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 05:48:39 PM »
Fantastic!

Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 03:34:16 PM »
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 03:34:16 PM »

Viggo

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 03:43:33 PM »
Something else, very nicely done! Thanks for sharing!  :D
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Zeidora

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Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 09:03:54 PM »
Something else, very nicely done! Thanks for sharing!  :D
Thanks!

Re something else, I would guess that >95% of popular images have people in it. I think for me it's the inverse. I like to shoot plant & animal portraits. Pointing a camera at people is just too vulgar and intrusive. My main lens is the Zeiss Makroplanar 100 mm, next is the MP-E 65. The OM 80 mm bellows head lens  from 1:2 to 2:1 was also wonderful to use. Stacking has opened a whole other level of possibilities.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5Dsr MP-E 65 z-stacking experiments.
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 09:03:54 PM »