April 17, 2014, 10:31:27 AM

Author Topic: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed  (Read 33933 times)

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • *******
  • Posts: 12750
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2012, 04:56:00 AM »
Don't forget that Canon called the lens on the PowerShot Pro1 an L lens, red ring and all. IIRC, that camera had a 1/1.5" sensor, too.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2012, 04:56:00 AM »

traveller

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 630
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2012, 06:10:02 AM »
Anyone else think that the G1X (stupid name considering Panasonic's recently announced GX1) is going to be completely overshadowed by Monday's Fuji X-Pro 1? (http://photorumors.com/2012/01/07/detailed-fuji-x-pro-1-specs-you-must-read-this/). 

Perhaps Canon have finally cottoned on to what they're missing, as they are now promising their own compact system camera this year? Presumably they must have already be developing it for some time...

http://photorumors.com/2012/01/07/canon-promises-mirrorless-camera-system-for-2012/

Dave92F1

  • Guest
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2012, 11:47:25 AM »
Anyone else think that the G1X (stupid name considering Panasonic's recently announced GX1) is going to be completely overshadowed by Monday's Fuji X-Pro 1? (http://photorumors.com/2012/01/07/detailed-fuji-x-pro-1-specs-you-must-read-this/).


I think it's an interesting camera, but too large for the compact segment the G12 competes in.   Still, if it had a flippy screen I'd consider buying one.  But I think Canon has a patent on that, and few vendors want to risk a fight over that.  (Nikon is an exception; I suppose they either made a deal with Canon or have some patent of their own to hold over Canon's head.)

Re the Gx sensor size, on that site there was a post from a year and a half ago that got me thinking:

http://photorumors.com/2010/06/09/canon-aps-h-1-3x-mirrorless/

Obviously that camera didn't happen (if it was ever real), but I think the technical points in the post are valid.

Considering:

  • The f/16 claim in the press release
  • The "shallow DoF" claim (ok, maybe marketing BS)
  • The reduced zoom range compared to the G11/G12 lens
  • The huge price hike from $600 to $800
  • Competitors with sensors of 1/1.0" (Nikon), 4/3, and APS-C (Sony)
  • The fact that full-frame film compacts were no larger than a G12
  • Last, the 14-bit RAW spec.  I haven't run the numbers, but I suspect it makes no sense to do 14-bit RAW on a 1.53 micron pitch sensor.  2^14 is 16384, and I'm not sure such a small sensor can even hold that many electrons, so what would be the point of an expensive 14-bit ADC?

I still think the Gx sensor is bigger than 1/1.5" (if the Gx is even real).

I think it's bigger than the Nikon 1 sensor (1/1.0), and probably 1.5x crop, because that would make it a little bigger than Sony's APS-C sensor and all these companies love to bash each other with spec numbers.   At $800 they can afford that, and Canon is well aware of how price affects sales - they know very well that a $800 camera with a 1/1.5" sensor will have problems in today's market.

I'll try another prediction - the lens will be very sharp, but will have lots of geometric distortion (barrel, pincushion, etc.).  Then they'll correct that in software with the DIGIC 5, so you'll never see it.   This will be their way of squaring the circle to get a small, sharp, f/2.5 lens that will cover a larger sensor.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 12:10:43 PM by Dave92F1 »


swblackwood

  • Guest
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #94 on: January 09, 2012, 09:22:00 AM »
 :)Not APS-C but it does use the larger four thirds sensor, larger than the Nikon 1 series. The only disappointment for me is the f5.8 at telephoto.


neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • *******
  • Posts: 12750
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2012, 09:42:23 AM »
It does indeed - but we also see the compromises that were made.  It's much thicker than the G12, most of that is the protruding lens. It's not f/2.5, but f/2.8 at the wide end.  Where the G12 is f/4.5 at the long end, the G1X is a narrow f/5.8.  We'll have to wait and see if other compromises were made in lens design, and how the lens quality holds up to the large sensor.

One more thing occurs to me - I did overemphasize comparisons to EF/-S lenses. Thinking back, the combination of 1/3-stop narrower at the wide end, a very narrow long end make some difference, but importantly, it's a 4:3 sensor, not 3:2, and 4:3 makes more efficient use of the image circle, so all of the lens elements can be smaller than would be inferred from a lens needed for a 3:2 sensor.

Still - the big sensor makes it interesting, and justifies the price tag!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:50:27 AM by neuroanatomist »
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2012, 09:42:23 AM »

Meh

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 679
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2012, 10:08:11 AM »
Still - the big sensor makes it interesting, and justifies the price tag!

But will you buy one neuro?  You may recall my previously stated gear buying policy.

ippikiokami

  • Guest
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2012, 10:14:39 AM »
It does indeed - but we also see the compromises that were made.  It's much thicker than the G12, most of that is the protruding lens. It's not f/2.5, but f/2.8 at the wide end.  Where the G12 is f/4.5 at the long end, the G1X is a narrow f/5.8.  We'll have to wait and see if other compromises were made in lens design, and how the lens quality holds up to the large sensor.

One more thing occurs to me - I did overemphasize comparisons to EF/-S lenses. Thinking back, the combination of 1/3-stop narrower at the wide end, a very narrow long end make some difference, but importantly, it's a 4:3 sensor, not 3:2, and 4:3 makes more efficient use of the image circle, so all of the lens elements can be smaller than would be inferred from a lens needed for a 3:2 sensor.

Still - the big sensor makes it interesting, and justifies the price tag!


While it did lose some speed on the lens.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canong1x/images/sensorsizes.jpg

Considering how much bigger the sensor is I think we'll be ok. The pic from dpreview gives you a better idea of how giant that thing is. And considering about the amazing amount of detail everyone goes in about how important pixel / sensor size is whenever that subject comes up I think we have a lot to be happy about with Canon in their general direction.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:16:27 AM by ippikiokami »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • *******
  • Posts: 12750
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2012, 10:38:23 AM »
Still - the big sensor makes it interesting, and justifies the price tag!

But will you buy one neuro?  You may recall my previously stated gear buying policy.

LOL. No, I don't plan to buy one.  For me, it's still too big - larger than truly pocketable (and I don't count cargo pants or coats for that), I'll just bring a dSLR. 

There's one thing that might change my mind - if the AF speed and shutter lag approach those of a dSLR, then I'd consider it.  That's one of the biggest downsides to a P&S, and one of the reasons I bring a dSLR unless I just can't.  I'm sure that someday, contrast-detect AF will get fast enough, but I don't think it's there yet.  In that regard, the bigger sensor is a disadvantage - the S100 has a fast burst rate, and because the DoF is deep, the lack of AF between shots isn't a big deal. But with a shallower DoF, a moving subject can more easily move out of the DoF.  In fact, I often set my S100 to MF and rely on the deep DoF you get even with a wide aperture to eliminate the need for (and more importantly, the time it takes to) AF. 

EDIT: one thing I just noticed - an optional 40m waterproof case.  The ISO capabilities of a large sensor might make this a great option for diving.  But then again, the combined price of the G1X and the housing will start to approach the cost of an Ikelite dSLR housing, and 28mm isn't really wide enough, and the 'extensive accessories' don't include a WA adapter.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:47:51 AM by neuroanatomist »
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Meh

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 679
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #100 on: January 09, 2012, 10:58:53 AM »
Still - the big sensor makes it interesting, and justifies the price tag!

But will you buy one neuro?  You may recall my previously stated gear buying policy.

LOL. No, I don't plan to buy one.  For me, it's still too big - larger than truly pocketable (and I don't count cargo pants or coats for that), I'll just bring a dSLR. 

There's one thing that might change my mind - if the AF speed and shutter lag approach those of a dSLR, then I'd consider it.  That's one of the biggest downsides to a P&S, and one of the reasons I bring a dSLR unless I just can't.  I'm sure that someday, contrast-detect AF will get fast enough, but I don't think it's there yet.  In that regard, the bigger sensor is a disadvantage - the S100 has a fast burst rate, and because the DoF is deep, the lack of AF between shots isn't a big deal. But with a shallower DoF, a moving subject can more easily move out of the DoF.  In fact, I often set my S100 to MF and rely on the deep DoF you get even with a wide aperture to eliminate the need for (and more importantly, the time it takes to) AF. 

EDIT: one thing I just noticed - an optional 40m waterproof case.  The ISO capabilities of a large sensor might make this a great option for diving.  But then again, the combined price of the G1X and the housing will start to approach the cost of an Ikelite dSLR housing, and 28mm isn't really wide enough, and the 'extensive accessories' don't include a WA adapter.

I agree with the "pocketability" issue.  I have a G10 and find it's just big enough to be a burden and once it's a burden I don't mind the greater burden of carrying my small backpack with DSLR.  Now, not all of us need to put it into a pocket.  Some of us carry purses which makes a huge difference in how large a P&S can be carried without it being inconvenient.  And many of the European style shoulder bags for men (a.k.a. "murses") are very fashionable so there's no gender excuses.

Great point about the focus issues.  Hadn't thought about it that way before.  When out and about with a P&S for emergency photographic opportunities we may not have a lot of time to set up and compose a shot.  The large DoF of the P&S means we can be quicker and still be sure the subject will be in focus.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 11:02:24 AM by Meh »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • *******
  • Posts: 12750
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #101 on: January 09, 2012, 11:09:01 AM »
Considering how much bigger the sensor is I think we'll be ok. The pic from dpreview gives you a better idea of how giant that thing is. And considering about the amazing amount of detail everyone goes in about how important pixel / sensor size is whenever that subject comes up I think we have a lot to be happy about with Canon in their general direction.

Well, yes, sensor size is important. But even more than hammering on 'bigger sensors are better', we hammer on 'glass before body'. A good lens on a smaller sensor (e.g. a 70-200 L-series on APS-C) will far outperform a poor lens on a larger sensor (e.g. the cheap 75-300mm III on a 5DII).  With a sensor nearly the size of APS-C, but a lens smaller than the 18-55mm kit lens, I do have some concerns about IQ. Not that the 18-55mm is horrible, but compared to lenses like the 17-55mm or 15-85mm, it's not in the same class, and a bigger sensor exposes more flaws in a lens.

When out and about with a P&S for emergency photographic opportunities we may not have a lot of time to set up and compose a shot.  The large DoF of the P&S means we can be quicker and still be sure the subject will be in focus.

Yep. Oh, and with the G1X, you'll have to factor in time to remove the lens cap - no auto-retracting cover. Canon helpfully includes an attachment string, so the cap can dangle around while you shoot (hmmm, what's that loud click-click-click on that video I just shot?).
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

kidnaper

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2012, 11:57:33 AM »
I was really hoping for integrated GPS, but I'm still interested. That price though... While its a lot of kit, it's just hard to justify this rather than putting that towards a 1DX in my eyes.
5DIII 8-200mm minus 35mm in there.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #102 on: January 09, 2012, 11:57:33 AM »

kidnaper

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #103 on: January 10, 2012, 08:11:54 AM »
I couldn't find to edit my last post, but it's up on Amazon for preorder.
http://tinyurl.com/7lm4dwy
5DIII 8-200mm minus 35mm in there.

kubelik

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 796
    • View Profile
    • a teatray in the sky
Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #104 on: January 10, 2012, 08:46:46 AM »
Wooo!!

And the crow is being eaten.

there are a lot of crows being eaten ... but happily so

canon rumors FORUM

Re: *UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed
« Reply #104 on: January 10, 2012, 08:46:46 AM »