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Canon Mirrorless in 2012?
« on: January 08, 2012, 06:01:39 AM »

ronderick

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 11:09:47 AM »
I love the way they reply... "We'll think in that direction for 2012", which basically puts another big question mark.

I guess the good thing is that the Canon rep affirms that the two priorities remain unchanged: image quality and scaling down bulk/size. So even if they don't invent an EVIL system, this concept will still apply to the future development of EOS cameras. (Hey, aren't they forgetting about the guys who find the 600D too small for their hands?)

Interesting to note that the rep believes while there are a lot of EVIL options out there in the market, the number of users with mirrorless bodies who actually use multiple lens is a minority (I wonder how they arrived at that conclusion). 

One final point the rep made is that there's going to be some point when they will have to consider developing an overall "smaller" system, as well as that downsizing the image sensor is the wave of the future - though there's the emphasis on "somewhen in the future".
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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 06:53:28 PM »
Interesting to note that the rep believes while there are a lot of EVIL options out there in the market, the number of users with mirrorless bodies who actually use multiple lens is a minority (I wonder how they arrived at that conclusion). 

i had a E-PL1 and have now a E-PL3 since a few days.

i have only the kit lens and got a pancake from my brother and i will not buy more lenses for the PEN. i prefer to spend my money on EF lenses.

my parents have a E-PL2 and use the 14-42mm kit.
they will never use another lens.
they bought it because i told them the E-PL2 has better IQ then a P&S.
but they don´t buy into the mFT system.

i think mirrorless is for most "normal" customers (who don´t frequent websites like this) just a better P&S camera. such users don´t buy many extra lenses.

 


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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 11:02:28 PM »

Interesting to note that the rep believes while there are a lot of EVIL options out there in the market, the number of users with mirrorless bodies who actually use multiple lens is a minority (I wonder how they arrived at that conclusion). 

One final point the rep made is that there's going to be some point when they will have to consider developing an overall "smaller" system, as well as that downsizing the image sensor is the wave of the future - though there's the emphasis on "somewhen in the future".

Presumably, Canon Reps all over the world talk to their retailer customers to see whats selling.  I expect they have a good idea of the number of cameras and lenses sold.

The average consumer wants zoom lenses, while some of the more advanced photographers prefer prime lenses.  It does depend on the target market.  Canon believes their new G1X will capture a big chunk of the market.  If it doesn't, then I'm sure there is a design of a interchangable lens model on the shelf.  Its likely all priced out, and when a go-ahead is given, orders will be placed for long lead items.

Hillsilly

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 11:15:52 PM »
Some sites have put an interesting slant on this.  Essentially they see it as a plea for customers to delay buying an Olympus, Fuji, Nikon, Sony, Samsung mirrorless until they can see what Canon has in store.  Assuming Canon has something in store.... 

By the way, has anyone noticed the new Fuji X-Pro 1?  I can't wait to see some reviews on that.  It looks like it might be a great, little camera.  This is the sort of thing I hope Canon brings out.

i think mirrorless is for most "normal" customers

That's a good way to think about it.  Sometimes you just want to go out and take some photos and micro four thirds is "good enough".  Plus, mirrorless cameras have some beneficial features.  I took my children to the Brisbane Planetarium and Botanic Gardens yesterday.  What did I take?  An EPL-1 with kit lens and a Minolta 135mm.  The 135mm effectively becomes a really compact, light, image stabilized 270mm f2.8 in micro four thirds talk.  Great for carrying around all day and ideal for photographing slow moving turtles and lizards.  Is the image quality as good as my Canons?  Maybe not.  But with a well exposed photo, I can't see any real problems.   

Given that Canon has such market dominance with P&S cameras with such a wide variety of models, I'm amazed that Canon doesn't have a model that is ideal for people like your parents.  That is, better image quality than a P&S, but with a good fixed / zoom / kit lens for people that wouldn't want to buy any additional lenses or accessories.  Let's see how the G1X does. 
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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 11:40:21 PM »
Has the Fuji x1-pro been officially announced?

Can't wait to see what Canon has in store... they said they would miniaturize the ENTIRE EF line in that interview...

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 11:50:05 PM »
I think the "official" announcement is tomorrow.  But its been listed on Amazon and there are pictures all over the net.  It looks nice, but no reviews yet.

The pre-order price on Amazon of the body was $1,699.95.  There are three compatible lenses, a 35mm f/1.4 ($499), an 18mm f/2.0 ($499) and a 60mm macro ($599).
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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2012, 11:50:05 PM »

gmrza

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2012, 02:18:02 AM »
Some sites have put an interesting slant on this.  Essentially they see it as a plea for customers to delay buying an Olympus, Fuji, Nikon, Sony, Samsung mirrorless until they can see what Canon has in store.  Assuming Canon has something in store.... 

By the way, has anyone noticed the new Fuji X-Pro 1?  I can't wait to see some reviews on that.  It looks like it might be a great, little camera.  This is the sort of thing I hope Canon brings out.

The X-Pro 1 certainly looks like an interesting system.  The challenge is that, before I commit to another system, I want to know what the system consists of, including lenses and other accessories like flashes.  If I go for the Fuji, then I am committing to a totally different flash system as well as a different lens system.  If Canon were to do a mirrorless system, presumably it would use E-TTL Speedlites, which would mean that I would be able to use my existing Speedlites, rather than having to purchase new flashes.  (Admittedly, I would be able to use my Canon Speedlites in manual mode, but I would still need at least one new flash unit for on-camera use.)

I, for one, will still be waiting a little while for the dust to settle.  I would like for Canon to announce a mirrorless system, but I still don't know if it makes commercial sense for Canon - precisely for the reason that most purchasers of EVIL systems never make use of the fact that the system allows lenses to be interchanged.
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bycostello

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2012, 04:30:43 AM »
yay.. although i was all set to buy a sony nex7 when released, will hang on now....

gmrza

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2012, 06:42:13 AM »
yay.. although i was all set to buy a sony nex7 when released, will hang on now....

I have to agree with that - I will wait for the dust to settle before jumping in and committing to a system.  If only a Leica M9 weren't so expensive...  :'(
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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2012, 09:14:02 AM »
Given that Canon has such market dominance with P&S cameras with such a wide variety of models, I'm amazed that Canon doesn't have a model that is ideal for people like your parents.

oh canon has something that would be "good enough".
the G12 would be good enough for my parents.

but in fact the G12 cost more then the E-PL2 here (only a few bucks but nevertheless).
and i saw no reason to recommend a G12 to my parents out of brand loyality. ;)
not as long as the E-PL2 has better image quality and is cheaper.  ;)

ps: i think canon HAS to use bigger sensors in P&S cameras in the future.
cheap P&S cameras with tiny sensors will become obsolet in my opinion.
mobile phone cameras getting better and will cover this market.
why should a school girl or mother carry another P&S camera when mobile phones can make pictures they are satisfied with??

my brother in law and my sister using the iphone for all pictures of their daughter.
i bought them a cheap fuji camera (im the photo guy in our family :) ) but they don´t use it.
because they don´t carry the camera all day.. but they do have the iphones at hand 7/24.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 09:33:26 AM by Canon-F1 »

max

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2012, 09:51:55 AM »
Canon just released the G1X with a sensor bigger than the micro 4/3, looks awesome!

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 09:56:28 AM »
Canon just released the G1X with a sensor bigger than the micro 4/3, looks awesome!

Full specs are up on http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_g1_x

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 09:56:28 AM »

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Canon Mirrorless in 2012?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 10:15:03 AM »
A Translation of a Japanese Interview “Canon has been forced to change their plan for 2011 because of the earthquake on the 11th March 2011 in Japan and floods in Thailand, but they are going to be back to the normal operation in 2012.”

Summary of interview with Masaya Maeda, Managing Director and Chief Executive of the Image Communication Products Operation at Canon Inc.

He stated that they are planning to release mirrorless compact system cameras in 2012.

Concept of Canon’s mirrorless system

  • Try to develop a compact camera which features high image quality.
  • Trying to make cameras smaller and more compact, mirrorless system could be the key.
  • Miniaturization of cameras is the top priority, which means the cameras may have a different mount to the EF mount.
  • For mirrorless cameras, being able to change lenses is certainly a big merit, however, the ratio of use of interchangeable lenses is very low. We have to think on how we can make users use interchangeable lenses more, that is very critical. We have to look into the whole system as well as miniaturization.
  • All DSLRs featuring EF mount would be getting smaller and smaller with high image quality. For interchangeable lenses, we are going to stick to EF mount.
  • EF lenses are being developed and extended this will include shooting movies. The compatibility of the new system and the EF system is very important.
  • As a premise of the new mount for mirrorless system, “the image sensor will be larger than the regular standard size” would be necessary.
  • The quality of image sensor will be improving. Having said that, in time downsizing the sensor is coming in the future.

C300 movie cameras

  • C300 contains various ideas of camera systems including new mounts. C300 was made from a lot of feedback from people in the movie industry, a good example is C gamma.
  • New unique lenses for movies are going to be marketed in 2012, Auto Focus for movies and the smooth movement of aperture are being developed.”

 Source: [NL] via [DCW]

 

« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 10:27:23 AM by Canon Rumors »
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aj1575

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 10:19:50 AM »
I'm not sure if it is that what the canon guy meant.
I don't think we will see a Canon EVIL-Camera in 2012. And I also think that some of the systems that are on the market now, won't be developed any further in 5 years; there are just too many at the moment. And then there are some problems that can't be solved with todays approach by most manufacturers.

Camera-size means also includes lens size. So for the image quality (and a shallow depth of field) a big sensor is needed, which means big lenses. Just look at a NEX with a telephoto lens, the size of the body is becoming less important, because it's the lens that makes up the bulk. Then there is the handling issue for serious work with a camera. I think most people would get a cramp in their hands, if they have to cover a sport event for 2 hours with a NEX+telephoto-lens.
On the other hand, these systems are nice to go hiking; just take it with you with a 35mm or someting like that, and you have a powerfull little camera. But for that I could also take a Fujifilm X100 with me, or a future Canon G-series.
If we go down in the sensor size, the image quality decreases, and it will do so even with better sensors in the future. Diffraction will remain a problem with small sensors. The DOF-problem could be solved with software (like other shortcomings of the lenses, like it is done more and more), but I'm note sure if this will be accepted by all users.

Downsizing is not easy in the camerabusiness. I think there is a market for small sensor EVIL-Systems, but this market is quite crowded already (if we consider 4/3 as small). People looking for image quality will at least buy a 4/3 sensor-camera, and I think this won't change much (as mentioned diffraction and DOF won't improve...). People who do not care that much about IQ, will buy a smaller camera, be it an ILC or a fixed lens camera. But I see the advantage of a fixed lens camera, because these people do generally not like to think about focal length, and which lens to take with them.
I think there is room for an APS-C or even FF EVIL-camera in the rangefinder style. SONY is close to this, but the ergonomics of the NEX sucks. The camera should offer very good IQ, and low light capabilities. Some nice primes, and a quality standard-zoom would be nice; something like the soon to be announed Fujifilm Pro X1, just a bit cheaper.

If I were Canon, I would take some time to find the ideal sensor-size for a future EVIL-System. It is not an easy task...

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Re: Canon promises a 'mirrorless' camera in 2012
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 10:19:50 AM »