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Author Topic: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!  (Read 14307 times)

Sunnystate

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 01:33:54 PM »
Agree completely, I am looking to mirrorless for something to finally replace my Rebel with super wide lens that, I carry everyday for walks with my dog. My God, just give me high quality mirrorless with some kind of lens in the 14-16mm FF range, I don't care for the price, and of course I will still keep all of my other SLR bodies.

On the other hand when mirrorless technology obviously will get really advanced, exceeding ability of the SLR, it may become financially sound not to support both systems and mirrorless will also be build in the form similar to the current SLR to preserve ergonomics, weight, ability to mount large lenses etc.
In any case SLRs probably will be replaced at some point if not by so called mirrorless than by some kind of other technology that will be cheaper, more efficient and better.
There is no reason to cry... just roll with the punches learn, and take best shots you can with available technology.
If changes like that will kill one or two companies (hopefully not Canon) it only will show that there was something wrong with the management, and usual suspects are lack of imagination and arrogance.


I think people are mixing up capabilities and form factors. Mirrorless camera's will most certainly one day match the capabilities of DSLRs. But I want a big sturdy camera for my shooting.

It's all about what a camera is good for. And people are just assuming that because a mirrorless is as good as whatever other camera then people will use it. But I don't take my desktop to a coffee shop and I don't edit photos on my laptop at home. Even though they are close to the same speed each has it's proper uses.

I think it's time we got over this confusion about the two. I actually like hauling my gripped 7D around with a 70-200mm and a flash. And I wouldn't prefer a lighter version of the rig. One of the main reasons I upgrade from my Rebel was that it was too small.

But, maybe I'm just a weird person. All my favorite TV shows get cancelled too...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 01:37:57 PM by Sunnystate »

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2012, 01:33:54 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2012, 01:39:58 PM »
But, maybe I'm just a weird person. All my favorite TV shows get cancelled too...

It's the other way around - people who would rather have another season of survivor, lost, or heroes are weird. People who would rather have another season of dark angel or flash forward are not.

Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies, and Dead Like Me - great shows that all died untimely deaths.  It's hard for quirky, intelligent shows to compete against 'mainstream' shows like Survivor and Lost and Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader (hint: if you're watching it, the answer is likely 'no'). 

dSLRs aren't 'quirky' but while I think there will always be a market for the high IQ they can deliver, I think when the banes of mirrorless cameras get solved (AF speed and shutter lag), the consumer popularity (i.e. Rebel/xxxD lines) of the dSLR arena will be dramatically reduced. 
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unfocused

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2012, 01:41:15 PM »
I use an M9 and Summicron 35 for 90% of what I shoot. I love the size and weight of the thing. I can fit it almost everywhere.

Yes...I thought that camera sitting on your workspace at CES didn't look like a Canon. Bad boy! Since it's your website, you don't get bad Karma, even though you deserve it. :)

Seriously though, of course DSLRS are a dying breed. It's just a question of how long it will take. Right now, there is nothing available that makes a better replacement. But, technology marches on.

In my lifetime, I've seen vinyl records, eight-track tapes, cassettes and now CDs come and go (well actually, vinyl records were here before I was born, but not the others). Same with the entire video store industry. For half of my life, there was no such thing as a video rental store. They came...they succeeded...they failed and technology marched on.

I accept that I am a dinosaur.

But, I'm also gambling that the death of the DSLR, when it comes, will arrive gradually and I may be too old and weak to lift a camera to my eye by that time. On the upside, if it comes sooner, the end of the DSLR just might give me the opportunity to pick up some nice "L" lenses at a discount when no one else wants them anymore.
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Rocky

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2012, 01:58:50 PM »
In my lifetime, I've seen vinyl records, eight-track tapes, cassettes and now CDs come and go (well actually, vinyl records were here before I was born, but not the others). Same with the entire video store industry. For half of my life, there was no such thing as a video rental store. They came...they succeeded...they failed and technology marched on.

I accept that I am a dinosaur.

But, I'm also gambling that the death of the DSLR, when it comes, will arrive gradually and I may be too old and weak to lift a camera to my eye by that time. On the upside, if it comes sooner, the end of the DSLR just might give me the opportunity to pick up some nice "L" lenses at a discount when no one else wants them anymore.
May I add that I have seen  78 rpm hard phono record, hand crank phono player, steel wire recorder. That is a real dinosaur.

Viggo

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2012, 02:01:33 PM »
But, maybe I'm just a weird person. All my favorite TV shows get cancelled too...

It's the other way around - people who would rather have another season of survivor, lost, or heroes are weird. People who would rather have another season of dark angel or flash forward are not.

Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies, and Dead Like Me - great shows that all died untimely deaths.  It's hard for quirky, intelligent shows to compete against 'mainstream' shows like Survivor and Lost and Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader (hint: if you're watching it, the answer is likely 'no'). 

dSLRs aren't 'quirky' but while I think there will always be a market for the high IQ they can deliver, I think when the banes of mirrorless cameras get solved (AF speed and shutter lag), the consumer popularity (i.e. Rebel/xxxD lines) of the dSLR arena will be dramatically reduced.

+1 for that, I think the best tv-series EVER produced for an insanely amount of reasosns, "Arrested Development" were to smart for people, three seasons only? Because it wasn't profitable. I for one can't wait until the movie gets here...
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Viggo

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 02:09:47 PM »
Again, why are people so obsessed with loosing the mirror?

I see nothing but benefits from it. (If you shoot video and argue for AF on video, forget it. If you buy a 1d X purley for filming, you have a rig and person adjusting focus anyways.)
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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 02:13:05 PM »
I think my ultimate gear combination would be a big medium format Contax with Zeiss glass for the best image quality.

Then a small mirrorless full frame for portability.

That would probably be the best of both worlds.

I agree the DSLR's will always have their place in sports and wildlife photography for sure.

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 02:13:05 PM »

EYEONE

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 02:23:13 PM »
But, maybe I'm just a weird person. All my favorite TV shows get cancelled too...

It's the other way around - people who would rather have another season of survivor, lost, or heroes are weird. People who would rather have another season of dark angel or flash forward are not.

Wonderfalls, Pushing Daisies, and Dead Like Me - great shows that all died untimely deaths.  It's hard for quirky, intelligent shows to compete against 'mainstream' shows like Survivor and Lost and Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader (hint: if you're watching it, the answer is likely 'no'). 

dSLRs aren't 'quirky' but while I think there will always be a market for the high IQ they can deliver, I think when the banes of mirrorless cameras get solved (AF speed and shutter lag), the consumer popularity (i.e. Rebel/xxxD lines) of the dSLR arena will be dramatically reduced.

+1 for that, I think the best tv-series EVER produced for an insanely amount of reasosns, "Arrested Development" were to smart for people, three seasons only? Because it wasn't profitable. I for one can't wait until the movie gets here...

Arrested Development, Firefly, Stargate: Universe... The list goes on.

However, I did love Lost too...
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skitron

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2012, 02:34:45 PM »
I suppose at the end of the day the laws of physics will have its say in the matter. If you want the framing and DOF that a full frame gives with a particular lens then sure, you can miniaturize the body. Maybe you can even  miniaturize the lens 5% under what you have now. But at the end of the day does anyone really want to shoot a 70-200 L f/2.8 with something like a NEX 5 body?  ;)
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dstppy

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2012, 02:35:48 PM »
Arrested Development, Firefly, Stargate: Universe... The list goes on.

However, I did love Lost too...

Yall got nothing on my troubles.  Since Nero Wolfe got cancelled .  . . I've had to turn to READING!!!  Oh the Humanity!  :'(
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traveller

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2012, 02:41:24 PM »
When EVFs are indistiguishable from OVFs and on-chip phase detect AF is as good as using a separate sensor, then I cannot see the point of having a mirror inside the camera anymore.  But none of this means that all future 'mirrorless' cameras will be tiny pocketable models; I've stated my position before that in the future 'mirrorless' cameras will simply be the norm and there will be plenty of room in the market for many different form factors. 

Imagine this for a future Canon pro camera:

-no mirror, on-sensor hybrid phase and contrast detect AF (Nikon 1 style)
-smaller flange back distance frees up designers to produce exciting new lenses (which can be used on smaller bodies when you need compactness or discretion)
-EF mount adaptor allows mounting of legacy lenses
-Huge EVF (bigger than current 1D X's 0.76x) that lets you compose in near darkness (to match the low light capabilities of future sensors), whilst previewing white balance and exposure. 
-fully electronic shutter with 120+fps capability (no moving parts), flash sync at just about any speed you like...

Still afraid of losing the mirror?


Cosk

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2012, 03:04:28 PM »
I'm a two-system kinda guy.  I have my big-fast-prime system, and I have an always-with-me camera.

What I don't understand is that there seems to be a belief that big sensors require bigger bodies and bigger lenses. 

Back in the film days, I loved the Olympus Stylus Epic (aka MJII).

Here are the specs:
- Full Frame / ~20MP when loaded with Fuji Reala
- Weather Sealed
- 35mm f/2.8 lens (fantastically sharp and saturated)
- Jean-Pocket comfortable

http://www.d2gallery.com/cameras/olympusstylusepic.html

That lens was tiny, bright, and full frame.

Now, I realize that big sensors are still very expensive, we are stuck in the mentality that every camera needs a screen - which adds thickness, cost, needs power and buttons.... so we need big batteries... and now that we have buttons, we really want full manual control and touch screens.

But if anyone built a digital version of the film Stylus Epic, I'd buy it... (but probably very few others, so I'm sure it won't happen). 

Canon started to... in their SD20... but alas, like your favorite shows, they discontinued it.

But my point is... I've owned a full frame camera with tiny lens that was wonderfully good. 
 
And EVIL doesn't have to replace SLR... if it can fit in a pocket, it can live comfortably alongside our air-cube cameras. 


We should rename SLR to LACS: Lens>Air Cube>Sensor
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 03:30:22 PM by Cosk »
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mitchell3417

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 04:11:48 PM »
In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.
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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2012, 04:11:48 PM »

Rocky

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2012, 04:28:43 PM »
In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.
We already have it, It is Leica M9. If used properly, It can MF more accurate than DSLR, especially  for shoter lense. It will MF faster than DSLR with proper skill.  Its shutter lag is measured in 10's of milli second.

EYEONE

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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2012, 04:31:00 PM »
In ten years no new cameras will come out with a physical mirror in them. The pros will carry 5d size bodies with ef mounts and beautiful evf's that can zoom in on demand for pinpoint focus control. The average person will only ever carry their cell phone as a camera. The rebel consumer today will have a nice mirrorless camera that may or may not come with interchangable lenses and may or may not have an evf.

That is where I see us headed. Pros will always want full size bodies, with 35mm sensors and the best IQ, AF, and DR.

You could be right. But I'm not thrilled about the elimination of the mirror. Every one worshiped the EVF on the A77 but when I used it I was underwhelmed. It still isn't pleasant compared to a OVF. They have a long long long way to go to replace the OVF. It's just a pleasure to use, looking through the lens with your own eye. It's natural, comfortable and precise.

What I'd rather see is a very advanced transmission LCD that allows more information options to be shown line a live histogram, more option for grid lines, electronic level and many many other things (without using AF dots). Maybe even some color overlays right in the OVF. A hybrid OVF in a pro DSLR
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Re: DSLRs are a dying breed, EVIL is the future!
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2012, 04:31:00 PM »