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Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« on: November 13, 2015, 01:48:09 PM »
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Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« on: November 13, 2015, 01:48:09 PM »

Etienne

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 02:24:37 PM »
Half-assed efforts like the EOS-M damage the Canon brand. They ought to know to do it well or don't do it at all. Much of the technology to make a great EOS-M already exists. Canon has DPAF for gawd's sake. By the time they make full use of it, it won't be special anymore. Got to shake my head  :o

Hector1970

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 02:50:23 PM »
Good review Dustin.
I think the M3 is still not attractive enough for me to buy.
I'd buy one if I thought it was good allround.
It just seems to lack a few things to be good enough.
I think they'd be as well to bundle the EVF with the camera.

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 03:14:47 PM »
Good review. The camera's a bit pricey. I think they should have put an EVF in even if it meant making the camera a bit bigger. As for the rest of it, it should meet my needs admirably. I may pick one up sometime and use it for casual walking around. I have a Fujifilm X100 for that purpose at the moment. It takes great pictures and I like the style but I want something with the capacity to change lenses and I don't want to invest any further in Fuji.

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 07:52:35 PM »
Thanks Dustin!
Your review fully confirms my decision not to upgrade from M (1) to M3. I refuse to buy, until Canon brings a fully competitive small MILC with built in EVF, regular EOS UI and excellent AF performance. Launching a truly decent EOS M body at an attractive price point should have absolute priority for Canon ... rather than less than lukewarm products like the sorry M10 (M2 rehash)!

mitchel

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 09:11:14 PM »
Really, Canon?  ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
Mitchel

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Chapman Baxter

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 12:33:05 AM »
Thanks for the review, Dustin, it seems to be a very honest appraisal.

Like you, I bought into the M system during the fire sale and, putting aside the M's shortcomings for a moment, I was amazed at the build quality of the original M. As you say, it feels reassuringly dense and its all-metal construction is very apparent. I subsequently bought an M2 and, although its lighter weight has some benefit, I was disappointed that it lacked the M's hewn-from-solid feel. I was curious to know how the M3 compares in this regard and it seems to be more like the M2 than the M, which is a pity.

Again like you, the M isn't my main system so I can live with the shortcomings and simply use it for situations within its capability. One of my uses is for video work. For example, I can position my two Ms pretty much anywhere, set manually to a pre-focused spot, then leave them to capture secondary camera angles passively while the main shoot is done actively with DSLRs.

I'll probably pick up an M3 body at some point but I hope the M4 gets a DPAF sensor. I really can't understand why the M3 didn't get one.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 04:20:55 AM by Chapman Baxter »

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 12:33:05 AM »

SeppOz

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 08:19:23 AM »
Excellent review Dustin!
I will be selling my M3, as I now prefer another brand's mirrorless.  Will still keep my M2 to use with the 11-22, and also for video.
Canon and other gear.

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 09:43:37 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.  I'm happy to have the M3 in my own kit, but like the M before it, it does come with some serious drawbacks that you just have to be willing to accept if you own it.
6D x 2 | 80D | 70D | EOS-M3 w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + 55-200 STM + Rokinon 12MM F/2 + EF Adapter| Tamron 15-30 VC | EF-S 24mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | Tamron 45mm VC | Zeiss 50 | 50 STM | 100L | 135L | Tamron 70-200 VC | 100-400L II | Legacy Glass

NorbR

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2015, 12:12:59 PM »
Thanks Dustin, this is another great review, and one that very much aligns with my experience with this camera. In many ways it is spectacularly good (the IQ is truly excellent, by far the best I've seen from a Canon APS-C, but I can't pretend to have tried that many), but it's plagued by many irritating things that just get on my nerves.

The AEB frame rate, in particular, is unforgivable. I don't get why it was so to begin with, and it really should have been corrected by now. This is something that I use regularly and that 1 fps really irks me to no end ...
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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2015, 08:44:16 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.  I'm happy to have the M3 in my own kit, but like the M before it, it does come with some serious drawbacks that you just have to be willing to accept if you own it.

Dustin,

Few notes...

EOS M and M2 shoot video at 50mbits/sec, M3 is highly governed at 25mbit/s, probably because the M2 actually has really good video with the Hybrid CMOS II + 50mbit 1080P + APS-C and EF-M STM optics make for a pretty killer combo, without third party software to override video defaults...

M3 is way better with Hybrid CMOS III and 24mp APS-C, so they throttled it to 25mbit to prevent cannibalization, in my opinion. Also highly fixable via firmware as if the M2 can shoot 50mbit on DIGIC 5, surely the M3 can via DIGIC 6. Canon explains this as attempting to make videos more storage friendly... You can always recode later down, but you can't recode up obviously..

Also continuous shooting... I've found substantial gains in using RAW only, with no image review + SanDisk Extreme Pro 95mb/sec cards... Since M3 is UHS-1, it's the fastest card it can take and it would appear the M3 uses it at a rate of ~80mb/sec when dumping Raws thus producing roughly ~2fps continuous raws with raw only + no image review... Not the 6FPS I love with my old 5D III with high speed CF, but some gains are to be had with the appropriate setup... AEB still is lackluster to your point...

AF update striking twice? Nope. Canon issues Firmware to fix problems, not features, the EOS M was an except because it was a bug. I won't get into this but if you look at Canon's history that is the trend. They rollout feature fixes into the next products firmware thus giving you reason to purchase instead of adding value to existing products. Good business strategy, terrible customer service... The exception on the M1 was probably to get them to sell, hence it made sense from a business standpoint to do it.

Canon will produce a EOS M4 with the new G5X style EVF + possibly a 24MP DPAF, or, they may reserve the 24MP DPAF I/II for a more pro EOS M series later next year + DIGIC 7 + High Speed Continous 4K... I could see that with existing money flows into products (IE demand for pro mirrorless spec'd camera, Canon follows $$)

I don't see so much of a focus fix via firmware, but I do think some glitches like the 1 FPS AEB could be corrected.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a revised EF adapter released that will perform a lot better.

If Canon is throttling back video as you suggest in order to not cannibalize sales, that would be a very foolish decision.  They don't operate in a vacuum, and most other mirrorless offerings have outstripped them in the video modes.
6D x 2 | 80D | 70D | EOS-M3 w/22mm f/2 + 18-55 STM + 55-200 STM + Rokinon 12MM F/2 + EF Adapter| Tamron 15-30 VC | EF-S 24mm f/2.8 | Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC | 35mm f/2 IS | 40mm f/2.8 | Tamron 45mm VC | Zeiss 50 | 50 STM | 100L | 135L | Tamron 70-200 VC | 100-400L II | Legacy Glass

koenkooi

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 08:48:32 AM »
I don't see so much of a focus fix via firmware, but I do think some glitches like the 1 FPS AEB could be corrected.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a revised EF adapter released that will perform a lot better.

The adapter is a straight-through passive adapter without any glass, how would they improve on that?

Etienne

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 10:20:31 AM »
Thanks for the review, Dustin, it seems to be a very honest appraisal.

Like you, I bought into the M system during the fire sale and, putting aside the M's shortcomings for a moment, I was amazed at the build quality of the original M. As you say, it feels reassuringly dense and its all-metal construction is very apparent. I subsequently bought an M2 and, although its lighter weight has some benefit, I was disappointed that it lacked the M's hewn-from-solid feel. I was curious to know how the M3 compares in this regard and it seems to be more like the M2 than the M, which is a pity.

Again like you, the M isn't my main system so I can live with the shortcomings and simply use it for situations within its capability. One of my uses is for video work. For example, I can position my two Ms pretty much anywhere, set manually to a pre-focused spot, then leave them to capture secondary camera angles passively while the main shoot is done actively with DSLRs.

I'll probably pick up an M3 body at some point but I hope the M4 gets a DPAF sensor. I really can't understand why the M3 didn't get one.

I've used my EOS-M like that as well, and gotten decent results. It's just too fiddly of a camera, and for general use it is awful for video. Sometimes I give up because of the fiddliness and have to go and get my 5D3, which is intuitive and easy by comparison. I've stopped using my EOS-M because of the amount of time it has caused me to waste, and miss shots.
Having an easy to use, not too expensive, small camera like that is really tempting and useful, but not if it causes you frustration and missed shots when the action starts. If the EOS-M4 is more pro, with DPAF I'll probably get one. Otherwise I'll likely pass again.

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 10:20:31 AM »

Etienne

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2015, 10:28:22 AM »
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.  I'm happy to have the M3 in my own kit, but like the M before it, it does come with some serious drawbacks that you just have to be willing to accept if you own it.

Dustin,

Few notes...

EOS M and M2 shoot video at 50mbits/sec, M3 is highly governed at 25mbit/s, probably because the M2 actually has really good video with the Hybrid CMOS II + 50mbit 1080P + APS-C and EF-M STM optics make for a pretty killer combo, without third party software to override video defaults...

M3 is way better with Hybrid CMOS III and 24mp APS-C, so they throttled it to 25mbit to prevent cannibalization, in my opinion. Also highly fixable via firmware as if the M2 can shoot 50mbit on DIGIC 5, surely the M3 can via DIGIC 6. Canon explains this as attempting to make videos more storage friendly... You can always recode later down, but you can't recode up obviously..

Also continuous shooting... I've found substantial gains in using RAW only, with no image review + SanDisk Extreme Pro 95mb/sec cards... Since M3 is UHS-1, it's the fastest card it can take and it would appear the M3 uses it at a rate of ~80mb/sec when dumping Raws thus producing roughly ~2fps continuous raws with raw only + no image review... Not the 6FPS I love with my old 5D III with high speed CF, but some gains are to be had with the appropriate setup... AEB still is lackluster to your point...

AF update striking twice? Nope. Canon issues Firmware to fix problems, not features, the EOS M was an except because it was a bug. I won't get into this but if you look at Canon's history that is the trend. They rollout feature fixes into the next products firmware thus giving you reason to purchase instead of adding value to existing products. Good business strategy, terrible customer service... The exception on the M1 was probably to get them to sell, hence it made sense from a business standpoint to do it.

Canon will produce a EOS M4 with the new G5X style EVF + possibly a 24MP DPAF, or, they may reserve the 24MP DPAF I/II for a more pro EOS M series later next year + DIGIC 7 + High Speed Continous 4K... I could see that with existing money flows into products (IE demand for pro mirrorless spec'd camera, Canon follows $$)
Canon does add features via firmware sometimes. They did it with the 5D2, adding audio level control for video and changing the frame rates to standard 23.97 and 29.97, from 24 and 30.
I think features were added to the 5D3 as well, but I can't remember what it was (perhaps the AF for f8 lenses)

AvTvM

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 10:47:29 AM »
The adapter is a straight-through passive adapter without any glass, how would they improve on that?

But it may very well have an *electronic chip* inside. I did not research it or take my adapter apart. But knowing Canon, I am willing to bet there is some electronics in it ... if for no other reason, than at least to make life as miserable and difficult as possible for users of third-party lenses.  >:(

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Re: Review - Canon EOS M3 Camera
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 10:47:29 AM »