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Author Topic: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?  (Read 7163 times)

photogaz

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Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« on: January 15, 2012, 05:20:19 AM »
Just over 9 weeks to go until it's suppose to be hitting our stores, the 1D X still hasn't demonstrated any high res ISO samples and has yet to fall into previewers hands.

I can't help think Canon heard about Nikon's D4 and decided to go in early and announce their camera far earlier than were originally going to do so.

I myself can't afford to buy a 1D X but it'll be a good indication of how a 5D Mark III will perform in terms of ISO etc.

Surely we should start to see full res samples by now?

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Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« on: January 15, 2012, 05:20:19 AM »

simonxu11

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 06:46:07 AM »
I think Canon is not confident enough about the 1DX right now.There are many  Nikon D4's sample images and videos on the web, but we haven't seen any thing from 1DX except two tiny images.
At CES people can try the Nikon D4 and view the large images through a monitor, but we have only seen very few websites reporting the 1DX, not even Canonrumors so far. Maybe I am wrong!!!!! I hope I am wrong!

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 08:18:37 AM »
I think it is all marketing driven. By announcing early they have the chance to generate media buzz on at least three occasions. First is the announcement/specs, second is once they start showing images/videos (should be soon, I think) and then once it is released/reviewed.

zim

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 08:49:36 AM »
Are they cleaver enough to have thought through that by not allowing the release of images for as long as possible it would cause an enormous amount of free publicity rumour and speculation if so it’s working!

 I just don’t think that’s the case though. The simple answer which has been mooted already is that this is Canon’s top pro camera, they can’t afford pro’s to have issues with it, they’ve  been there before and it hurt. A ‘beta’ image with any kind of flaw would be pounced on and mud sticks. They will be squeezing every last ounce of performance out of the software….. it will be GREAT and I wish I had more money than sense  :'(

neuroanatomist

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 09:03:41 AM »
the 1D X ... has yet to fall into previewers hands.

What makes you think this?  Canon has released publicity videos of photographers shooting with the 1D X.  Sure sounds like they're in 'previewers' hands.  Or do you mean 'reviewers' like DPR, etc.?  But again, what makes you think that hasn't happened?  I don't know that it has, but if it has, those individuals with access to the 1D X are under strict NDAs, and they're not about to go blabbing or emailing ISO 204,800 RAW files to their friends. 

We'll see samples when Canon is ready for them to be seen.  The reasons don't have to be quality, or 'problems' or even further firmware tweaks, although none of those can be ruled out.  But as DavidRiesenberg stated, it's probably just marketing.  Extend the buzz.  Make a bigger splash. 

To throw some speculative fuel on the fire, how about high-res images released in conjunction with a lens announcement?  Imagine..."Here are the Mk II versions of the 24-70L and 35L...and this wickedly sharp image of a caged yellow bird, which looks like it was shot in a house with sunlight streaming through the windows, is actually a canary at the bottom of a pitch-black coal mine, shot at f/1.4 with native ISO 51,200."
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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 09:04:50 AM »
I think the ones in rush announcement was the Nikon D4 in order to create competence against Canon 1D X. Both cameras were being developed already though, before both announcements (that's pretty clear because Nikon are showing videos and stuff already). But I think Nikon didn't plan on announcing it so early and had to do it this way due to the quick announcement of the 1D X.

Whatever it was, what matters most is how both will perform as both have very similar specifications (though they have some better and some worse). I personally believe Canon 1D X is better overall, especially if they fix the f/5.6+ maximum aperture AF limitation.

P.S: I agree with Neuro.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2012, 09:08:04 AM by Fperez »

JR

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 09:05:08 AM »
I think it is all marketing driven. By announcing early they have the chance to generate media buzz on at least three occasions. First is the announcement/specs, second is once they start showing images/videos (should be soon, I think) and then once it is released/reviewed.

Actually I think they have a fourth instance:  when the D4 was launch, comparison with the 1DX was obvious and even on Nikon rumor sites they were comparing and giving visibility to the 1DX.  Over all so far the 1DX might be winning the media coverage aspect, not that any of us here care about that.

Now on the original OP question, i dont think it was rush, but if it feels like that sometime is because Canon took an approach they had not taken before:  annouce a product way in advance in beta form to continue to gather feed-back.

I guess we will know soon enought.  When the 1DX is actually launch and that we can actually see real RAW image, then we will know.  If the 1DX as several new tweaks not present at time of announcement which can make its success, then they will have had a good strategy!

Only 2 more months max to wait!
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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 09:05:08 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »
Only 2 more months max to wait!

+1 for your optimism!  I do hope that a different team at Canon is responsible for bringing the 1D X out on time, and not the team responsible for the MkII supertele prime releases... ::)
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JR

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 11:45:22 AM »
Only 2 more months max to wait!

+1 for your optimism!  I do hope that a different team at Canon is responsible for bringing the 1D X out on time, and not the team responsible for the MkII supertele prime releases... ::)

Good point!  Or the team responsible to make their new printer Pixma Pro-1 available while it was announced and promissed for mid-November availability!  Yikes...Mean while the D4 will hit stores by mid-Feb...   :-[
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distant.star

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 12:27:40 PM »
I think it is all marketing driven.

You don't say!

It's ALL marketing driven. Henry Ford may have said (or thought) "We'll give them any color they want as long as it's black," but the marketing satans shut him down right quick.

While there are some "invested" folks here who disagree, I've been saying since the start of the "1Dx fiasco" that Canon has done no more than suggest they plan to sell a super-duper camera some time in 2012. They've provided some technical specs, subject to change. Only they know why they did that. As I also say, trying to discern the mind of Canon is like staring into the sun hoping to see a single hydrogen atom. You'll never see that atom, and you'll go blind doing it.

In the automotive world, we'd call it a "concept vehicle." You see them at auto shows all the time. They are looking for consumer and industry reaction to various ideas. They do not promise to put them in showrooms. If Canon had been honest, I think they'd have said "Here's a great concept camera, what do you think?" But the photo equipment industry isn't structured that way, I know.

It's always fun to speculate about the future and why companies like Canon and Apple and Unilever do what they do. But I don't want to lose site of the present and how much better it is than the past. I enjoyed taking pictures 40 years ago -- I enjoy it a LOT more today because I now have equipment I couldn't even have imagined in those times.

This time next year Canon will have different, and better, equipment on the shelves. They'll be asking for our money in exchange. That's a time for decision making.

Meanwhile, I suggest you don't get blinded or bamboozled by the marketing satans.
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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2012, 02:15:56 PM »
Canon have already stated that the 1d X is two stops better ISO than the mk4, so find a mk4 10000 iso ,image and that is what you get at 2500 with a 1d X.

I for one am much more interested in the below 1600 iso's, because after using the 5d2 (after recently selling my mk4) I can tell you that the difference in noise at iso 100-400 is not even close on the mk4. The 5d2 have SO MUCH more detail and the images are so much cleaner and sharper it's ridicolous... I had no idea... I often thought with the mk4 that, yeah, not much noise at 2500 iso, but it wasn't that much difference down to 640 iso either, so I'm hoping for some 5d2 quality at lower iso's. Shouldn't be too much to ask, and it would make me very happy. I gotta say, I can't imagine IQ being better than the 5d2 right now, WHAT A CAMERA (for IQ, AF still sucks   ;D
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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 02:23:42 PM »
I did not see any thing out of the ordinary,

Canon usually makes the announcements at photo expos and starts delivery in a few weeks, and full resolution Raw and jpeg images are already posted on the internet.  Just nothing official.

DPR only reviews production cameras, so you will not see a full review for quite a while, but we may see some sampoe images in a couple of weeks.

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 03:09:49 PM »
Didn't strike me as a rush.

With regards to D4 announcement, i seem to recall Nikon Rumours were expecting its announcement some time in October 2011 - then the floods etc.

At the London CPS, i got the view that they were testing the water with the camera and also giving people a chance to get the cheque books ready. I never asked a price - but i was asked if i thought £5299 was a price i'd pay. I said no, and put my price at around the £4200 mark - stretching to £4500 at a push.

As for preparing me for purchase date - what more could pros want who are planning this years kit upgrade or expenditure...

Yes, overall it struck me at CPS as being a very well crafted and orchestrated affair.

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2012, 03:09:49 PM »

JR

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2012, 04:32:09 PM »
Canon have already stated that the 1d X is two stops better ISO than the mk4, so find a mk4 10000 iso ,image and that is what you get at 2500 with a 1d X.

...however if I recall correctly this 2 stop better ISO on the 1DIV was on JPEG file, not RAW file.  So having 2 stops on JPEG could just mean in camera process is better then before (which is to be expected with the new processor and all) but that does not mean 2 stop better ISO for RAW which is really the benchmark here I believe.

From reading many post on this site (from members with a much more technical background then I  ;)) the sentiment is more around an improvement of at least 1 stop and maybe 1.5 stops compared to the 1DIV.  Not sure what this mean for a 5D mkII comparison but I sure hope this is not just marketing hype because meanwhile the D4 is claimed to be one stop better than the D3s, so Canon does have a big uphill sloap to climb here!
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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 10:24:43 PM »
Canon have already stated that the 1d X is two stops better ISO than the mk4, so find a mk4 10000 iso ,image and that is what you get at 2500 with a 1d X.

...however if I recall correctly this 2 stop better ISO on the 1DIV was on JPEG file, not RAW file.  So having 2 stops on JPEG could just mean in camera process is better then before (which is to be expected with the new processor and all) but that does not mean 2 stop better ISO for RAW which is really the benchmark here I believe.

From reading many post on this site (from members with a much more technical background then I  ;)) the sentiment is more around an improvement of at least 1 stop and maybe 1.5 stops compared to the 1DIV.  Not sure what this mean for a 5D mkII comparison but I sure hope this is not just marketing hype because meanwhile the D4 is claimed to be one stop better than the D3s, so Canon does have a big uphill sloap to climb here!

I would not compare FF high ISO with the 1D MK IV.  Compare it with the 1DS MK III or 5D MK II which are FF bodies, and already better than the 1D MK IV.

Canon as well as Nikon rate the ISO in terms of out of Camera jpegs.  You can usually get a bit better results from Raw because a more powerful computer can do more sophisticated NR than the tiny low powered one in the camera body.

I prefer to rate the ISO with the raw image off the sensor and no NR.  This points to the abiliity of the sensor and associated electronics to detect low light levels and lets me see the actual noise before NR.

I'd be greatly surprised and very happy if the body had two steps better RAW performance as compared to my 5D MK II, even 1 step better would be quite good.  If I could get images at ISO 12,600 like I now do at ISO 3200, it would be worth the money.  Upgrading all my lenses by 2 stops would break the bank, even by one stop!

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Re: Was the 1D X an annoucement a rush job?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2012, 10:24:43 PM »