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Author Topic: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors  (Read 19027 times)

kubelik

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 02:07:40 PM »
sanyasi, I believe nearly everyone who is on this website is interested in photography and thus vested in the protection of intellectual property rights.

the problem with SOPA & PIPA is not that these bills prevent piracy.  stopping piracy is great.  I don't pirate DVD's or MP3's, and I try to convince my friends and family not to as well. 

the problem is the fact that SOPA & PIPA in fact do NOT prevent piracy (please watch the videos where it is explained how use of an IP address instead of a website allows pirates to continue accessing sites for illegal downloading), thus failing to fulfill their stated goal, meanwhile endangering legitimate companies and start-ups due to its loosely written clauses.

these are bills that do almost nothing to protect your rights (and those of content creators and businesses), but allow for dozens of scenarios in which those rights can be violated.

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 02:07:40 PM »

Maui5150

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 02:18:20 PM »
There is a difference between piracy and fair use.  If you read SOPA and PIPA you see that to the extent it is taken, if you REFERENCE SOMETHING, you are in violation of copyright, and can be prosecuted.  Going so far as mentioning on your blog that you listed to a specific song, technically violates SOPA, because the song title is copyrighted and used without permission and the artists may not want association with the person or the web site.

There also is no real due process.  The blocking and shutting down is an arbitrary one with little or no controls, notification, or recourse.  In fact, the burden of proof is not on the other person that their copyright has been violated, it is up to you to prove that it is fair use. 

Ever link to an article?  A web site?  Guess what, under SOPA and PIPA that makes YOU A PIRATE if they determine that site has a violation.  Example.  You have a link to Flickr on your blog, or say a link to a thread on CanonRumors.  Someone posts an image that someone does not like on either of those sites, and YOUR SITE can be taken down as well.  Guilt by association!

SOPA and PIPA are a lot less about piracy, as they are extending corporatism and a control structure.  It is poorly written legislation that is EXTREMELY dangerous.  Are they that ignorant, or do their veiled attempts portend to something else?

To extend it further, under SOPA and PIPA, if Canon did not like a post or comment on this website, they could claim copyright violation over quoted text, capabilities, product names and the like, and not only could this site be blocked, but any sites that LINK TO IT.

Is that Piracy?  Nope.  Not really.  There is more to SOPA and PIPA that are freedom of speech and fair use issues than there is about pirated music, movies and the like

bvukich

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2012, 02:24:24 PM »
I oppose SOPA and PIPA for more than the obvious content of the bills themselves.  I also oppose them for a more fundamental reason, and the same reason I opposed net neutrality legislation (which I do support the concept of, but not actual legislation).

I oppose the idea of the US government thinking it has any right or obligation to monitor, censor, regulate, or otherwise tamper with the internet.  Keep your damn luddite hands off the internet!

thepancakeman

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2012, 02:40:45 PM »
Ya know, I'm not a fan of SOPA and PIPA either, but the haste with which we are propelling ourselves towards our own doom amazes me.  I'm not that terribly old, and I still remember that life actually could go on without the internet at all.

Don't get me wrong, the internet is a handy tool, but there's a whole lot of "all your eggs in one basket" these days.  WHEN (not if) the internet comes crashing down (no, I'm not looking for a technical discussion on the redundancies and failsafes) we will be in the dark ages because you can neither buy anything with a credit card nor get cash from your bank because they can't validate your balance.  You won't be able to buy a book because there's no local amazon, and no one will have any idea how to get anywhere because Google maps and their GPS's don't work.

That's the reason I still prefer to own DVDs and games and not just stream them.  I like having a physical photo album and not just a website or flickr account.  So if SOPA or PIPA or their long lost cousin eventually sucks the life out of the internet, life can still go on.

<<donning flame-proof suit>> 

Mark1

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2012, 02:48:30 PM »
I thought the site had been hacked and If I clicked the video link it would download some horrible virus onto my PC  ::)


sanyasi

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2012, 02:49:12 PM »
I have read the broad outlines of SOPA and have heard the discussions over the concerns.  Some may be warranted, but those concerns are being used as a basis to torpedo any legislative response to piracy.  In terms of the over breadth argument, the courts can address interpretative issues.  Nothing unique about SOPA when it comes to the need to interpret words in legislation.  It is worth noting that the First Amendment protections have been grafted onto the copyright, trademark and state right of publicity acts to prevent those laws from curtailing free speech.  There is no reason to suspect that the courts won't provide similar protections against impeding legitimate speech.

As for concerns about blogs being taken down because they link to a newspaper article or are critical of a product, just not an issue.  Fair use protects will protect those sort of references.  Law ultimately reflects social norms and courts take those norms into account when interpreting words in legislation.  Fair use is not going any place.

The comment about perpetual copyright is emblematic of the over reaction.  Is there a provision in SOPA that makes copyrights of unlimited duration?  Not that I know of.  I agree, I would like to see a return to a shorter period, but that doesn't seem to be the issue with SOPA.

For all of those of you who oppose SOPA, what's your solution to piracy?  Some of the European countries have considered an ASCAP/BMI type regime.  Everything would be "free,"but your ISP monthly fee would be raised and the money would be divided among creators according to some formula.  Does that work for you?

Why do so many people want to defend Google and other distributors of information?  So additional monitoring would cost them money.  A pharmaceutical company or meat packer has all sorts of monitoring costs to assure that consumers get safe drugs and food.  That's a cost of doing business.  Why should Google be able to produce a product (albeit intangible) without some quality control?  Right now they have no problem blocking  child porn sites, so the technology seems to be in place to block pirate sites.

There is a simple fact:  The Internet has been the Wild West for almost 20 years.  It has been left unregulated to permit it to evolve, which undoubtedly has been a good thing.  But it is time to bring some balance to the Internet.  Just saying you are against piracy is rather hollow and not enough given the realities of what is happening. 

By the way, if you don't like SOPA, you really aren't going to like what it coming in the sales tax arena.  Within the next two years, there is a strong likelihood that so-called tax-free online shopping is coming to an end.  In actuality, tax-free shopping  never existed.  Consumers were supposed to pay use tax, but ignored the law.  Congress is about to step in and reverse the decision in Quill.  And Congress has every reason to do that, because it helps keep cash strapped states from asking for federal funds.  There is also an equity argument.  Why should bricks and mortar stores be put at a competitive disadvantage? Another example of lawlessness coming to an end.

kubelik

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2012, 03:06:15 PM »
sanyasi, don't be so quick to presume that people who are anti-SOPA are looking for freebies/the kind of people who enjoy piracy.  I will have no problem paying sales taxes on items purchased online; I'm surprised that it hasn't been implemented sooner.  frankly, I wouldn't have a problem paying slightly more for internet service if that money could demonstrably be dedicated toward fighting piracy.  I don't have an issue with companies writing reasonable DRM on their software that I purchase (although I do have a problem with companies like EA which seek to arbitrarily control access to products you have purchased based on things like forum bannings).

I don't understand how SOPA/PIPA would reduce the amount of "lawnessness" on the internet.  it instead promotes lawnessness, where anyone really has the authority to issue a ban on a website for having links to questionable material posted.  that, to me, seems more lawless than ever.  imagine a forum where any user can issue bans on any other user.  that ... seems like a great idea.

I also disagree with the mindset that everything should be resolved over litigation.  how about writing laws better in the first place so we can save money (and dozens of small companies that will be sued out of existence before litigation can correct the legislation) on lawyers?  why should our first recourse to sorting out laws properly be to take things to the courts?  if everything at my job had to be given to someone else to do before it could be done right, I'm pretty sure I'd be fired.  well, Congress' job is to write good laws for America and the American people.  if we're expecting concerned citizens to sue and the Supreme Court to rule before a good law can be put in place ... what exactly is Congress doing over there?

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2012, 03:06:15 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
But it is time to bring some balance to the Internet.

Recall the Jedi prophecy that a Chosen One would come and bring balance to the Force.  Of course, the foolish Jedi Council didn't think that one through to it's logical conclusion - since they were in ascendance, 'balance' could only come with a gain in power by the Dark Side at the expense of a loss of power (and ultimately, lives) of the Jedi Council.  They asked for Balance, they got Darth Vader and the destruction of the Council.  Be careful what you ask for... 

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Wrathwilde

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »
By the way, if you don't like SOPA, you really aren't going to like what it coming in the sales tax arena.  Within the next two years, there is a strong likelihood that so-called tax-free online shopping is coming to an end.

  Really, I have no problem with internet sales being taxed. I welcome it, it would make bookkeeping for the business so much simpler. To claim we are against SOPA because we want everything free is missing the point of the protest entirely. It's not about a support of piracy, it's about due process of law. We've already seen corporations abuse the process of take down notices for works they do not hold the rights to, expanding that to entire sites without going through the process of determining that (1) The people requesting the take down are actually the right holders, and (2) That the sites failed to take down said content when requested to do so. The way SOPA/PIPA is written, it's the equivalent of me having you thrown in prison because I wrote to the police that you "broke the law"... then telling you that if you want to get out of prison that you have to prove that you didn't break the law. You get no trial, no jury, you are guilty until you can prove your innocence. In the mean time we get to have all the payment networks block any financial transactions with you, or they could be in violation by aiding your "criminal" undertakings. 

  So yes, I do have a problem with corporations being able to take down entire websites with a simple "good faith" claim of infringement. If a site is infringing then let them send a take down notice for the offending material, if the site refuses to take down the material then let it be fought out in court. If the complaint is valid, then let a court order be issued to have the site taken down, and hey, guess what, we already have laws to do that, it's just that companies, and governments, don't want to have to bother with the legal process, they want the power to terminate sites on their word alone.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 03:29:11 PM by Wrathwilde »

92101media

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2012, 03:26:42 PM »
Much of what is written about SOPA speaks in platitudes about free speech and an open Internet.  We all face a serious problem, particularly people who create content for a living. 

This problem has recently been well documented by Robert Levine in his book Free Ride: How Digital Parasites are Destroying the Culture Business.  The title is provocative, but Levine systematically documents how piracy has  damaged the music, movie, television, newspaper, and now the book businesses.  In my  own research, I have come across stories from countless photographers about how their works have been pirated.

Levine looks at cost structures, employment trends, and usage to make his case.  He shows how both the transmission and hardware companies have used piracy to build their businesses, knowing that much of what they are transmitting and putting in the hands of information consumers is pirated.  They then use the leverage they have obtained by gathering eyeballs to negotiate what have often proved to be unfavorable arrangements with content providers.

Levine also documents how the transmission and hardware companies have funded nonprofit organizations to promote the notion that information should be free and the Internet open.  These companies have manufactured populace sentiment to further their own profit-making agendas.  They have a right to do that, but there is another side to the story--the rights of creative people to earn a living.

If Levine's predictions are correct, we are on the cusp of learning what "Information Must Be Free" leads to:  Less quality information.  In one of many examples, Levine points to Spain as providing creative people with the fewest protections.  He demonstrates the devastating impact that a failure to regulate the Internet has had on the Spanish music industry.  Just yesterday, world--renowed Spanish author Lucia Etxebarria announced that she would cease writing novels because illegal downloading of e-books made it impossible for her to earn a living. 

Creative people have a right to be paid fairly for and control the distribution of their work. That is true regardless of whether the creative person is a lone photographer or a large media company.  The Internet is now well-established.  It is time to end the lawlessness and strike an appropriate balance between free speech and property rights.

As much as I would like all my music, books, newspapers, and movies to be free, I am willing to pay the creators for their work.  I am unwilling to hide behind free speech platitudes to serve my own selfish interests.

I continue to be puzzled why many creative people and people who like the fruits of creative people are so quick to  lobby on behalf of large corporations at the expense of creative people and their efforts.

Sanyasi,

I understand the points you are making, and believe most people on this site, as creators of original works themselves, believe in copyright protection & fair compensation for the artist. However SOPA (at least in its current form) is not the answer. As has been mentioned SOPA can easily be bypassed by simply using the IP address of a site hosting pirated works, rather than using a DNS server. In addition, the proposed legislation is overreaching & much of it is left to arbitrary subjective interpretation as to whether a site is infringing or not, with very few qualifying guidelines. Such legislation is open to abuse. In its current form, if for instance you run a photo blog, and have an open comment box, and a random user posts a copyrighted work in the comment box on your photo blog, your site can be taken down & YOU can be sued for damages for copyright infringement, with you also paying attorney fees for both parties if you lose!!

As I stated before, if passed, SOPA would:
 - stifle innovation
 - undermine cybersecurity
 - give the US government the right to unilaterally censor foreign websites
 - give copyright holders the right to issue economic takedowns and bring lawsuits against website owners and operators, if those websites have features that make it possible to post infringing content (note: a feature as simple as allowing an open comment box could be sufficient to qualify a website for a copyright infringement lawsuit)
 - make it a felony offense to post a copyrighted song or video
 - still be ineffective at achieving its goal as it's easy to bypass using direct IP addresses instead of DNS

More technical details, analysis & legal implications on why SOPA has the potential to be extremely dangerous can be read here:
http://mashable.com/2012/01/17/sopa-dangerous-opinion/

So, SOPA comes with a whole host of negative civil liberties implications, while doing nothing to address the real problem, and also severely undermines the security of the internet.

I am a strong supporter of net neutrality, and believe high speed bandwidth open & easily accessible to everyone is a key to tech innovation in the foreseeable future. Without it, the US will be at a severe disadvantage to other countries which do not impose such restrictions.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 03:54:17 PM by 92101media »

sanyasi

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2012, 03:37:25 PM »
The result of rules is litigation.  It begins when you are a small child and your parents say no.  Kids are great at making counter arguments and finding loopholes.  I've been involved with law for 35 years in a variety of capacities.  It is impossible to write laws that don't end up raising issues that require someone  to provide answers.  Wish it weren't true, but it is.  The very fact that people are arguing about SOPA using examples demonstrates how people use language to package policy arguments.  As long as we have words, we will need to resolve their meaning as interpretative issues arise.

As for keeping luddite hands off the Internet:  Lots of irony packed in that statement.  It was U.S. Defense Department funding that created the internet back in the late 60s (Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET)).  As a counterfactual, imagine the freedom we would have with regard to the Internet had it been IBM or another commercial entity instead of the U.S. government.  As someone of a libertarian bent, I agree Ron Paul is great in theory, but not very practical in the real world.

Sorry folks:  It is easy to come out against SOPA, but I still haven't seen an alternative solution proposed in this thread.  And I don't doubt anyone who says they don't steal content, but there are lot of regular folks who know exactly what they are doing when they go these pirate sites and download music and movies.

By the way, the market is responding in part to the pirates.  That is what apps are all about.  Media companies are going to create their own closed communities using apps.

dstppy

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2012, 03:48:23 PM »
But it is time to bring some balance to the Internet.

Recall the Jedi prophecy that a Chosen One would come and bring balance to the Force.  Of course, the foolish Jedi Council didn't think that one through to it's logical conclusion - since they were in ascendance, 'balance' could only come with a gain in power by the Dark Side at the expense of a loss of power (and ultimately, lives) of the Jedi Council.  They asked for Balance, they got Darth Vader and the destruction of the Council.  Be careful what you ask for... 

Wikipedia may be blacked out for the day, but Wookieepedia is up and running.   :P

The force is strong with this one.  I agree - didn't make sense to balance things when you're winning.

Taking that lesson back to the original topic, idealistically Craig is right --- but we've got legislation in the US that makes it illegal to make a digital copy for something that you paid for . . . it's not about balance, it's about maintaining a monopoly.
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thepancakeman

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »
But it is time to bring some balance to the Internet.

Recall the Jedi prophecy that a Chosen One would come and bring balance to the Force.  Of course, the foolish Jedi Council didn't think that one through to it's logical conclusion - since they were in ascendance, 'balance' could only come with a gain in power by the Dark Side at the expense of a loss of power (and ultimately, lives) of the Jedi Council.  They asked for Balance, they got Darth Vader and the destruction of the Council.  Be careful what you ask for... 

Wikipedia may be blacked out for the day, but Wookieepedia is up and running.   :P

+1.  Excellent in both analogy and reference material!   ;D

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »

Ryusui

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2012, 04:01:01 PM »
Sorry folks:  It is easy to come out against SOPA, but I still haven't seen an alternative solution proposed in this thread.
So...  Either the masses whose liberties will be impeded need to come up with a better solution right this moment, or we just accept the weak, non-effectual proposed plan that our elected and pretty well-paid officials have come up with?  I don't understand what's so hard about "the idea and principle is sound, but the regulation and enforcement need to be refined."

I also find it hard to believe that the MPAA, the RIAA, et al. make up the majority of voters in this country versus the amount of people who are against against these bills.  If we're a democratic society, how come the minority with all the dollars have the most leverage?

But it is time to bring some balance to the Internet.

Recall the Jedi prophecy that a Chosen One would come and bring balance to the Force.  Of course, the foolish Jedi Council didn't think that one through to it's logical conclusion - since they were in ascendance, 'balance' could only come with a gain in power by the Dark Side at the expense of a loss of power (and ultimately, lives) of the Jedi Council.  They asked for Balance, they got Darth Vader and the destruction of the Council.  Be careful what you ask for... 

Wikipedia may be blacked out for the day, but Wookieepedia is up and running.   :P
By the way, a huge plus to neuroanatomist for proving that not only is he brilliant when it comes to technical aspects of cameras, photography and technology, but really good at pop culture, too!

I bet you're a whizz at You Don't Know Jack!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 04:02:49 PM by Ryusui »

dstppy

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2012, 04:11:01 PM »
Sorry folks:  It is easy to come out against SOPA, but I still haven't seen an alternative solution proposed in this thread.
So...  Either the masses whose liberties will be impeded need to come up with a better solution right this moment, or we just accept the weak, non-effectual proposed plan that our elected and pretty well-paid officials have come up with?  I don't understand what's so hard about "the idea and principle is sound, but the regulation and enforcement need to be refined."

I'll add: this person has no clue how Congress works at all.  Everyone that got their seat in the last election got it for saying they "won't let X do Y" and every reasonable compromise has gotten blocked by a resounding 'nuh-uh!'.

Hell, I'll vote for a change that says "you have to come up with a better solution" on every topic you say no to.   ;D Problem solved!
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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2012, 04:11:01 PM »