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Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 05, 2010, 09:33:25 PM »
Beyond 2011? It’s said Canon has introduced a 3rd camera category to its internal designations; DSLR, compact and mirrorless.

However, there is no current timeline or product to fit into the mirrorless category.

We’ve heard in the past that any mirrorless solution would be in the distant future i.e. 2012.

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Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« on: November 05, 2010, 09:33:25 PM »

scalesusa

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 10:08:55 PM »
My first 35mm Camera was a Argus C3 waaaaaaaaaay back in the early 1960's.  It was wonderful, I mostly took color slides.  But, when I compare those slides to even a relatively simple point and shoot today, they look poor by comparison. 

I think I'd like a digital rangefinder, but for my product photography in a studio, I use live veiw almost exclusively, viewing the image on a 24 inch monitor with 5X magnification, live histogram, and depth of field preview lets me tweak it until it is just what I want.  Getting the right image the first time saves tons of time in post processing.  As long as a Mirrorless can do that, I'd be happy to use it both in and out of the studio.

x-vision

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 11:43:35 PM »
Canon has not filed a single patent for a mirrorless camera.
At the same time, Nikon has been filing patent after patent for mirrorless. 

Based on this, I'd say that Canon has no plans whatsoever for a mirrorless camera at this time.

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 12:41:47 AM »
Canon has not filed a single patent for a mirrorless camera.
At the same time, Nikon has been filing patent after patent for mirrorless. 

Based on this, I'd say that Canon has no plans whatsoever for a mirrorless camera at this time.


Thom Hogan has just posted his predictions for 2011 http://www.bythom.com/2011predictions.htm He has prediction for ALL camera manufactuers.

"Canon missed a memo somewhere. The camera market is changing, but they seem stuck on executing on the old memo. Basically: more pixels, more video, same camera."

and: "Both Panasonic and Sony now have dedicated video cameras derived from their mirrorless camera systems. ...Of the video companies, Canon is conspicuously absent from this trend."

Looking a what Canon has done (or not done) this year makes me think that Mr Hogan and x-vision may be right.

Grendel

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 01:15:20 AM »
Patents are usually filled as close to release as possible. You don't want to let the competition know what you are up to earlier than absolutely necessary..

spam

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 04:18:14 AM »
Beyond 2011?

No CR-rating on this one, does that mean it's pure speculation and  not based on any real info at all. You wouldn't even rate it as CR1?

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 11:22:52 AM »
If you look at history, Canon have been rather good at keeping their secret to themselves. Half believable rumours don't appear until the product is practically finished and near shipping.
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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 11:22:52 AM »

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 08:40:16 PM »
May be canon is avoiding the mirrorless for the following reasons:
1. In order to make it coat pocketable ,It need to come up with a new set of lenses. It will be a big expense for canon.
2. In order to do it right, the sensor must be at least APS-C size.  Couples with a thin body, it will have the Dark-Corner problem without infringing into the pattern by Sony and Leica. The best that Canon can do is to use the software solution.
3. Auto focusing time is more than twice the DSLR, based on existing technology.
4. The price of mirrorless may be higher than the entry level DSLR. Most people given a choice will ends up with a DSLR instead of a mirrorless.
5. Canon already has both G12 and S95, both are regarded as the best "pocketable camera.
6. Mirrorless with a good zoom lens will not be pocketable anyway.

goodmane

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2010, 10:25:16 AM »
I don't care what internal or external reasons are causing the delay.

The idea that the G series or S series can currently compete with micro four thirds is limited and will get worse over the next few months.

Canon's slowness threatens their DSLR market a little I think. Personally with 5D, 24-70, three Canon flashes and a G9, I am heavily  invested in Canon - at least for an amateur I think.

I was thrilled with the G9 when it seemed like the serious amateurs were being listened to. i.e. we wanted a black, dial-laden camera with hotshoe and optical viewfinder in around 2007. It needed a usable raw mode. Canon delivered when at the time the only alternatives were out of production e.g. Canon Pro 1 or G5.

Now, I use the G9 with a 580EX all the time when I'm on holiday with family / friends. No way will I bring an SLR, it ruins the mood. The G9 works fine I suppose. But the pictures suck a bit, not to most people, but to me, I see the limitations of the sensor and the lens (apart from when its at 35mm equiv, but even then dynamic range and flexibility of pushing files is not great).

Nothing in the G10 / 11 / 12 will make the limitations of the small sensor go away. My ideal small camera at this point is a Panasonic GF1 with a pancake lens. BUT I don't want to give up ETTL flash which I really like, and the ability of the camera to fulfil the role of backup if my 5D buggers up or I want a second body e.g. for a wedding.

I will wait for a Canon alternative with large sensor, but not forever. 


J-Man

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 08:20:44 PM »
I think the whole mirrorless camera thing caught Canon sleeping,
I don't think making a whole new line of lenses would stop canon,
Not making a return on investment would.
Canon is already 2 generations behind, waiting till 2012 will put them at least 1 more behind. I sure hope they release one next year.

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 09:39:29 PM »
I think the whole mirrorless camera thing caught Canon sleeping,
I don't think making a whole new line of lenses would stop canon,
Not making a return on investment would.
Canon is already 2 generations behind, waiting till 2012 will put them at least 1 more behind. I sure hope they release one next year.

May be Canon is smart to stay away from mirrorless for a while for the following reason.
1. There are 6 or 7 APS-C mirrorless camera out there that generates a lot of attention. But are they really selling well? Are they making money, after the the R & D cost???
2. None of them is really coat pocketable with the lens.
3. Focusing speed is terrible, even compare to the entry  DSLR.
4. Weight saving is also minimal, compared to entry level DSLR.
5. Cost is comparable to entry level DSLR.
6. You will need a camera bag for either Mirrorless or DSLR.
7. May be Canon is waiting for a technology breakthrough or trying to improve the existing technology.

I actually will like to have a mirrorless camera with the following:
1. APS-C sensor with even explosure all the way to the corner. Canon should get  the  offset micro mirror technology from Leica plus the software adjustment.
2. Focusing time equals to the existing DSLR. If it cannot be done, then Canon should have lenses that have  fine manual focusing with depth of field scale like the lenses in the old film days. With these, we can use the zone focusing technique and have NO focusing delay.
3. Some prime pancake lens to make the camera really coat pocketable.
4. The camera body design should be taken a page from the Fuji mirrorless (start from ground up, make it small and still comfortable in the hand, and use classic range finder camera as a model. Also canon should also get the hybrid view finder from Fuji).
If such a camera exist, I will pay $2000 for it. It sure beats the $7000 price tag of the Leica M9.

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 11:59:56 PM »
I think the whole mirrorless camera thing caught Canon sleeping,
I don't think making a whole new line of lenses would stop canon,
Not making a return on investment would.
Canon is already 2 generations behind, waiting till 2012 will put them at least 1 more behind. I sure hope they release one next year.

May be Canon is smart to stay away from mirrorless for a while for the following reason.
1. There are 6 or 7 APS-C mirrorless camera out there that generates a lot of attention. But are they really selling well? Are they making money, after the the R & D cost???

Why don't you go and do some reading on the Internet and find out and come back with your results? Here's a hint: if they weren't then why would Nikon be developing one?

Quote
2. None of them is really coat pocketable with the lens.

With what authority do you make that claim?

Quote
3. Focusing speed is terrible, even compare to the entry  DSLR.
4. Weight saving is also minimal, compared to entry level DSLR.

Exactly which cameras are you comparing?
What do you call minimal? 10%? 20%? 30%? 40%?

Quote
6. You will need a camera bag for either Mirrorless or DSLR.

With what authority do you make that claim?

Let me ask you something, why do you make posts like this?

You back up none of your assertions with facts nor URLs pointing to facts.

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 12:14:05 AM »
The idea that the G series or S series can currently compete with micro four thirds is limited and will get worse over the next few months.

I don't think that the S series has anything to really worry about. At its price point, there is simply nothing to beat it. Well, maybe the LX series from Panasonic, but that's it.

Until m4/3 sensors make it into compact cameras with fixed lenses, I can't see why the S series has anything to worry about.

As for the G series, well, maybe you have a point.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2010, 12:14:05 AM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 12:19:04 AM »
I think the whole mirrorless camera thing caught Canon sleeping,
I don't think making a whole new line of lenses would stop canon,
Not making a return on investment would.

With you all the way on the above.

Quote
Canon is already 2 generations behind, waiting till 2012 will put them at least 1 more behind. I sure hope they release one next year.

I think time is running out for 2010. It would have to be next week or the week after with "immediate delivery" so that it was in the stores for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Given that there are 0 rumors of this happening, I can't see that it will.

2011 is a whole new year... will we have to wait until 2012? I think we'll know in about 11 months.

Will they be 1 or 2 generations behind, or even up to par? Hard to tell. Consider that when Canon debuted with the 1Ds and 5D cameras, they hit the mark pretty square on. With the reinvigorating of the G & S series, they've also hit the mark square on.

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 01:28:45 AM »
Dilbert,
I do not need to quote URL on every statement  that I have made. Did you look at  the Sony APS-C mirrorless. a blind man can see how big the lens is. Will you put it in you coat pocket?? Read the Image Resources test. You will find out the focusing speed is about 0.5 second. Look at the weight with the lens and compare it with the XSi with  the kit lens. Compare the price of the two while you are at it.  as for camera bag. Will you dangle a camera at you chest all the time without any protection???  i do not need any authority, just common sense.

If you want to pick on me on any statement, go ahead, make my day. I know you got nothing better to do. So it will just be my entertainment.  So go ahead and be a court jester and entertain me.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2010, 01:28:45 AM »