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Author Topic: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?  (Read 13521 times)

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 01:43:15 AM »
Dilbert, If you think my all 6 points are all wrong, you are welcome to prove that I am wrong.  You do not  say some one is wrong until you can prove him wrong. That is just simple good citizenship. if you do not have it I feel sorry for you.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 01:43:15 AM »

lol

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 04:44:13 AM »
Coat pocketable - yes they are. I keep my E-P1 in my fleece with either the kit zoom, or more often the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 pancake. The kit zoom does stick out a bit, but the pancake is better. I wouldn't say no if they were smaller, so I think the recently announced GF2 is a step in the right direction. I don't find a need for a dedicated case or bag, where I do for any DSLR.

Focus speed - for stationary subjects they are about the same as a DSLR now. They are hopeless if the subject is moving, where I'd pick a DSLR every time. Personally I really hate the m4/3 manual focus system, especially on their focus by wire lenses.

Weight saving - well, my "normal" camera is a 7D so there is a huge weight saving from that! But certainly it will be a much smaller gap to lower bodies.

Cost is certainly an issue right now. I do think there is room for more price drops there, which will happen as the competition heats up.
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dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 05:20:33 AM »
Dilbert, If you think my all 6 points are all wrong, you are welcome to prove that I am wrong.  You do not  say some one is wrong until you can prove him wrong. That is just simple good citizenship. if you do not have it I feel sorry for you.

I never said you were wrong, I asked you to provide facts and URLs to backup your claims.

If you cannot do that then you should be a good net citizen and update your posting to state that your statements are your opinions and are not actually backed up by any factual data.

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 05:36:29 AM »
Dilbert,
I do not need to quote URL on every statement  that I have made. Did you look at  the Sony APS-C mirrorless.

Ummmm, I don't think that anyone else but you is thinking that Sony's DSLR with the APS-C sensor is the type of mirror-less camera that this thread is about.

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2010, 11:39:57 AM »


Ummmm, I don't think that anyone else but you is thinking that Sony's DSLR with the APS-C sensor is the type of mirror-less camera that this thread is about.

Can you name an APS-C mirrorless  that can challenge  ALL my 6 points???  My #1 point is also a questioon, based on what I have seen on the cruise ships in the last few months. I see a lot of DSLR but only  ONE Sony mirroless.

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2010, 12:01:33 PM »



Quote


With what authority do you make that claim?




With what authority do you make that claim?

Let me ask you something, why do you make posts like this?

You back up none of your assertions with facts nor URLs pointing to facts.

Who gave you the authority to write such a mean post????

unexposure

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2010, 12:08:40 PM »
Samsung NX10 body weights about 350g without battery, rebel xs weights about 450g - so weight is pretty compareable here. Sony Nex3 is about 300g with battery, same as Panasonic GF2 - about half the weight of rebel xs.

Body of NX10 measures 123×87×39.8mm, while rebel XS measures ca. 126,1 x 97,5 x 61,9 mm - pretty much compareable. too. Sony Nex3 is 117 x 63 x 33mm and Panasonic GF2 is 113 x 68 x 33 mm which I'd say both are the "winners" in being small.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2010, 12:08:40 PM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2010, 05:25:56 PM »
Samsung NX10 body weights about 350g without battery, rebel xs weights about 450g - so weight is pretty compareable here. Sony Nex3 is about 300g with battery, same as Panasonic GF2 - about half the weight of rebel xs.

Body of NX10 measures 123×87×39.8mm, while rebel XS measures ca. 126,1 x 97,5 x 61,9 mm - pretty much compareable. too. Sony Nex3 is 117 x 63 x 33mm and Panasonic GF2 is 113 x 68 x 33 mm which I'd say both are the "winners" in being small.

Hmm, dpreview says the Rebel XS is 502g without a battery?

But yes, it seems like everyone except for one person has the same idea when it comes to the type of camera this thread is about :)

unexposure

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2010, 05:57:53 PM »
But
Hmm, dpreview says the Rebel XS is 502g without a battery?

But yes, it seems like everyone except for one person has the same idea when it comes to the type of camera this thread is about :)

Canon says that it's 450g Body only :-P

But yes, I think, regarding some of Rockys Points, he might be right.

- I wouldn't put a Cam in my Pockets too. I see what doing so does to my mobile phone and I just don't trust electronics that much. :-) Though, it's a completely different thing to put a Nex oder whatever in the Pocket of your Jacket than a agfa Iso Rapid or another pretty small film cam - they just don't have a display that might be damaged by the keys, coins or whatever you're carrying in the same pocket. And regarding the "inner" Bags of a Jacket, Nex&Co are still to heavyweight to just have em around - a p&s like ixus n stuff would be much more worthy in this position. even a G-Series migth fulfill this category if it was some cm smaller and some g ligther.

- the lack of current Canon pancakes - if there won't be a pancake lens for a mirrorless canon, I wouldn't even consider buying it; with a "regular-sized" zoom-lens (or even the fixed ones) in Nex-Size (ok, panasonic does the job quite well) or NX-Size (the pancake is not yet available as of my information), the whole "save space"-philosophy goes down the drain.

- cost is a point, rocky's definatly right on: The very cheapest (in germany) is the Pen E-P1, which is the only one in the whole fleet, that goes below in price of rebel xs and there are only a few models in between rebel xs/nikon d3000 to rebel t1i/nikon d5000 which both succeeds the technical limits of "low budget"-mirrorless by far.

on the other hand, the statement, that mirrorless might not be selling so good isn't true. Mirrorless sells extremly well. Kakaku.com has a pretty good study done about the marketshares of mirrorless in the dslr-market which comes to the conclosure, that in japan, mirrorless is about to reach 40% marketshare - and here we go: the biggest loosers are canon and nikon.


Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2010, 07:35:59 PM »
Unexposure, Thanks.  Regarding the market share of mirrorless, what you have seen in the website is "search trend" not buying trend. That seems to be agreeing with my point #1. mirrorless did generate a lot of interest.  You are welcome to correct me if I am wrong. My question about if it is selling well is really based on my own observation on a few cruise ships and on land where the ships docked ( Europe, Asia and Canada) in this year. I have seen a lot of DSLR and "P & S", but only a few mirror less. I have also seen the same trend in U.S.  What is your observation in Germany??? By the way Besides my DSLR I do have a Ixus (SD870 in US). The factory case is a little bit too big for my taste. Just by pure luck, I have found a soft leather case with a belt loop  that fits it like a glove and has a minimal outside pocket for the spare battery. So the SD870 with the leather case are either in my pant pocket or on my belt

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2010, 07:51:33 PM »
But
Hmm, dpreview says the Rebel XS is 502g without a battery?

But yes, it seems like everyone except for one person has the same idea when it comes to the type of camera this thread is about :)

Canon says that it's 450g Body only :-P
...
- I wouldn't put a Cam in my Pockets too.


Never put a compact camera in your pocket?
Never bought a small, snug, camera sized camera case for a compact camera?
Never bought one of those plastic stick on covers for your iPhone/iPad?

There are a lot of options for protecting the LCD screen on the back if you're that concerned about it and none of them would be an obstacle to putting the camera in a pocket.

btw, if you have issues with phone & keys being in the same pocket, buy a jacket/whatever with more than one pocket.

Quote
- the lack of current Canon pancakes


You're worried about the a lens that doesn't exist for a camera that doesn't yet exist? So if the camera that doesn't exist comes to exist, surely the lens that also doesn't exist could also then exist?

Quote
- cost is a point, rocky's definatly right on: The very cheapest (in germany) is the Pen E-P1, which is the only one in the whole fleet, that goes below in price of rebel xs and there are only a few models in between rebel xs/nikon d3000 to rebel t1i/nikon d5000 which both succeeds the technical limits of "low budget"-mirrorless by far.


Then it stands to reason that the cost is not the leading factor in the purchasing decisions being made by people who are buying these cameras.

Quote
on the other hand, the statement, that mirrorless might not be selling so good isn't true. Mirrorless sells extremly well.


This must be a lie because they're not cheap enough for people to prefer them over bottom rung DSLRs.

ronderick

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2010, 09:55:48 PM »
Here's an interview during the Photokina period with one of the big guys at Canon by Japan's Digicamera Watch:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100925_396112.html

With my limited knowledge of Japanese (maybe someone can come up with a more accurate translation), I think he pointed out that Canon's decision of not getting involved with EVIL at this point is that the performance of these types of cameras is still a bit lacking.

He mentiond autofocus speed, control response, release lag, and EVF ("EVFの見え味や遅延") as areas requiring improvements.
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Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2010, 10:42:03 PM »
The following is a Google translated version:   (Camera has been translated into Aircraft)
(some Translation are off, but we can guess what it really mean)
- If you want to focus on shooting video, I propose that it may approach another new system camera mirror-less machine.

For mirror-less aircraft, a method for me to meet the needs of miniaturized and have been answered one way I think.  Improvements from the list Refukamerayuza SLR, it will always rise above smaller and lighter. Apart from the presence of the mirror, in a compact camera, but we all thoroughly, and for certain demographic, demand has not been yet. Is at once respond to the needs and potential of these smaller, less I think it mirrors the current system of aircraft.  As long as interchangeable lenses, it is assumed that the performance drop of as a camera, possibly with the assumption of mirror-less, technology development has been conducted.

What plans there are commercialized?

If you make a machine inside the mirror-less Canon shall not have this much performance and functionality, we believe that a clear distinction. Comes out the possibility of product performance is clear that if asked, can not clear at this time.

 Performance in it will mean to you?

The basic speed of auto focus, response operations, Rerizuragu, EVF or delay the appearance of taste, is comprehensive. SLR cameras are using and comfortable, fast and feels just like I think it is important to use comfortably.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 10:45:31 PM by Rocky »

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2010, 10:42:03 PM »

Rocky

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2010, 01:27:43 AM »
But yes, it seems like everyone except for one person has the same idea when it comes to the type of camera this thread is about :)

Dilbert,

What type of camera on this tread are you thinking about????

dilbert

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2010, 01:46:22 AM »
But yes, it seems like everyone except for one person has the same idea when it comes to the type of camera this thread is about :)

Dilbert,

What type of camera on this tread are you thinking about????

Same as everyone except you - Olympus PEN, Panasonic G series, Sony NEX, etc.

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Re: Canon Mirrorless Far Off?
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2010, 01:46:22 AM »