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Author Topic: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation  (Read 20131 times)

kapanak

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 11:39:33 PM »
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2012, 11:39:33 PM »

AG

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2012, 12:08:40 AM »
The 5DX is a really fantastic development if it eventuates! Kill the 7D crop sensor for good!

I said that once and scored myself a whole bunch of Negative Karma as a result.

But it does kinda make sense....sorta.

Instead of Killing the Crop make it the XXD model as the high end.
Move all the missing features of the 7D into the 60D's replacement and that then makes the XXD series relevant again.

The only real problem with that theory is that the 7D faithful won't like the fact that their body of choice has become an XXD model number not a XD model (something to do with the mindset that XD model numbers are for pros models etc).

Either way i am hoping that this could be the mythical 5D3/X or Hybrid Cinema EOS film guys like myself have been waiting for.

How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Tsk tsk. There you go being all logical and stuff  :P
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 12:13:56 AM »
The 5DX is a really fantastic development if it eventuates! Kill the 7D crop sensor for good! Read on...

I own two 5DmarkII's and I bought a 7D on a whim in November of last year. I love everything about the 7D except the image quality.  Compared to the 5DMarkII there is noticeably more noise even at base ISO, less accurate colors and less dynamic range - all of these are noticeable in Lightroom and not just spec sheet facts.  For the quality of camera body that you get and the features you get - the Achilles heel is the sensor. I've thought since buying the 7D, that crop sensors it the Canon lineup should stop with the 60D.

For the 5DMarkII's, the IQ is really very good, but is let down by many of the features - poor AF and poor weather sealing are two of the main culprits. Read more of its weaknesses here: http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d700/vs-5d-mark-ii.htm (I don't agree with K.R. with everything but that's a really good summation of things and I agree with those weaknesses 100%).

I'd be extremely happy if they combined the 5D and 7D lines, even if it sold for an extra grand over the current 5DMarkII. It would still be a lot less than a 1DX (approx half the price), and not be as fast, nor have quite as many features, but it would be enough to satisfy me as serious amateur, and stop me going the Nikon way.

5DX - let it be true!!!

They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2012, 12:17:56 AM »
I'm a little hesitant to jump in on a conversation that seems to me to be going in some pretty wild directions. But I just can't help myself.

I'm going to predict that this is the 5D Mk III. Why?

Here is what Stephen Oachs said:

Quote
I'm currently on a shoot in Kenya, Africa, and I ran into a Japanese man sporting some gear I didn't recognize. While his English was very limited, I was able to confirm that he works for Canon and is doing in-field testing with the new Canon 200-400mm with built-in teleconverter. He also was testing the new Canon 600mm.

 I'm guessing that if he were asked about the camera, he'd simply pretend not to understand or give some other, non-committal answer.

The canon photographer probably actually speaks English more fluently than the guy who snapped the mystery picks (or myself or that matter).  ;D

Quote
Not nearly as fun as speculating about some grand, secret strategy. But, when simple, obvious answers are available, it's usually best to go with them.

Soooo. An Occam Razorist in our midst is there....

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 12:20:34 AM »
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

D_Rochat

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2012, 12:29:36 AM »
They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer  line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 12:45:29 AM by D_Rochat »

kapanak

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 12:30:44 AM »
How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 12:33:58 AM by kapanak »

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2012, 12:30:44 AM »

D_Rochat

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2012, 12:40:53 AM »
It's just a smaller sensor.

My bad. msowsun is right. "the rear element of the lens (EF-S) is closer to the image sensor than on regular 35 mm SLR cameras"
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 12:55:45 AM by D_Rochat »

aeturnum

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 12:42:29 AM »
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:
  • The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
  • The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
  • The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
  • The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

Angryoak

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 12:45:32 AM »
What would be great is if they combined the 7d & 5D and produced a FF camera that was capable of taking EF-S lenses (sorta like nikons dx mode). 

msowsun

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 12:48:47 AM »
EF-S lenses are short back focus and will hit the mirror in most cases. Nikon doesn't have that problem apparently.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 01:13:22 AM »
They might keep the 7D still, unless this has the 36MP, otherwise people might still want 7D for max reach applications.

Killing off the APS-C 7D wouldn't be the end of the APS-C in general. As I stated earlier, they could very well gear the xxD Prosumer  line towards the APS-C crowd, with improvements. The 7D is more of a Prosumer body anyways IMO. Rebadge and continue to sell.

EDIT - Unless you are only obsessed with owning a xD body, it makes no difference. If having a xD body is your only concern, your priorities are off. *pulling out the Smite shield*

True, but marketing does tend to worry about the xD to xxD status symbol stuff. Maybe they jump it to 80D to make up for that.  ;D

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 01:14:27 AM »


That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

No it can't change lens to sensor distance. All it does is like mask off the outer parts of a FF sensor. It just changes the FOV you get. You don't get any extra detail on distant objects compared to using the same lens on a FF camera of the same photosite density (although they often use same total MP on APS-C and FF and thus APS-C often has more photosite density).

Well EF-S can go closer, but they would smack FF mirror, plus they still deliver the same focal length equivalent they don't get a 1.6x focal length boost when it comes to putting extra detail on a distance subject.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 01:19:13 AM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 01:14:27 AM »

KyleSTL

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2012, 01:49:58 AM »
Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.
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kapanak

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 01:51:43 AM »
Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:
  • The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
  • The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
  • The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
  • The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I use a 7D and wouls seriously hate to see Canon ruin it by mixing it with the 5d. The arguments you post there about sports shooters could just crop completely don't work. For sports and worse still bird photography, the loss of focal length by going to FF makes the lenses shorter! This is a horrible idea for Canon, and one they hopefully will not embrace, because it causes the small birds to become much smaller indeed.

Which is why I offered the on-sensor cropping idea ... If the FF sensor crops to 1.6X, then both camps are happy, except with regards to frames per second.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:00:00 AM by kapanak »

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Re: Canon EOS 5D X Speculation
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2012, 01:51:43 AM »