Canon EOS 5D X Speculation

[moreorless]

I wouldnt be supprized if there was a general shift upwards in AF performance of all of Canon's lines this generation given that there previous advanatge in sensor performance may not be there.

650D gets 60D AF

70D gets 7D AF

7D gets new system between the old and 1D

5D mk3/X gets FF equivilent of 7D

[Blaze]

Would a 7D and 5D Mark II combining end up with a 46MP camera (same density as 7D and per-pixel noise, and same sensor size at 5D2)?  Yes, I know it sounds like dreaming, but it would have the FF most everyone love, and an identical picture to the 7D for the long-reach fans (birders, sports) when cropped.

Why would that happen? A FF version of the current 7D sensor would be a around ... 29MP?

No. The linear crop factor is 1.6x. You have to account for both horizontal and vertical increase in size.
18.1 MP APS-C scaled up to a full frame sensor is 18.1 MP * 1.6 * 1.6 = 46.3 MP.

[briansquibb]

Perhaps Canon are going to do a Nikon - release a ff with APS-C compatibility

APS-C sensors will then be consigned to P&S/compacts like the other manufacturers are doing.

[Gcon]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of canon unifying the 7D and 5D lines. Think back to before the 1Dx announcement. Canon's lineup has 3 (4 with the entry level body) 1.6 crop cameras, a 1.3 crop and two full frames. That meant that they have to spread a bunch of features across a large range of cameras. Even if you discount the lowest level camera (the 1100D), that's a lot of tooling they have to maintain in their factories and a lot of sensors to develop. They also risk confusing consumers over the difference between the bodies.

They've already united the two "1D" lines into a single camera, and I think it makes a lot of sense to consolidate the 7D and 5D. Right now the 5D offers some usability upgrades over the 60D, but I've always felt that the 60D had features held back to keep it "below" the 7D. Canon has also made users pick "sport" bodies v.s. "landscape" bodies (to generalize), which has also hurt them. Combining the 7D and 5D would let them have 4 easy to understand product catagories:

• The 1D line: Professional quality used by professionals.
• The 5D line: Near professional quality for about half the price. Not the best, but excellent.
• The X0D line: Enthusiast quality for ~twice the entry level price. Controls and features an experienced shooter will appreciate, without the quality (or price) of its FF brothers.
• The XX0D / XX00D lines: Entry level SLRs with prices to match. A good deal, but experienced users will want more.

The more I think about this, the more I think it makes sense. If they can deliver similar frame rates on a full frame sensor, sports shooters can crop down if they need more range (or canon can introduce a "crop" mode a-la nikon).

I like what you did there with that break-down. I think Canon made a big mistake in muddying their product lines by giving a crop sensor a xD designation.  Really only FF sensors should have the xD designation.

I predict that that the 5Dx will be a merging of full-frame 5DmarkII, with the best features of the 7D.

So what happens to the 7D2 then? I don't really care as I won't buy one, but they could come out with a kick-ass 70D, and bring things in line with what you said.

For all those people who want a crop sensor for "reach" I'm not overly convinced by that argument. You pack all those photosites so close together and yes you get more perceived reach, but the noise increases too.  If ISO is high enough, I believe it's better to crop in Photoshop a full frame image. Really it depends on the ISO - a crop sensor is better for reach at lower ISO, but IMHO a crop of a full frame image is better at higher ISO.

In any case - can't wait for Feb!!

[Britman]

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.

[Rank_90]

One thing people seems to forget and that the price range. If the 7D & 5D merged it would cost around £2,000 that's one hell of a jump from the 60D @ £700. At present the 7D fill the price gape between the 60D & 5D.

For me I feel that the 7D is too young to be replaced with a Mrk II. I think Canon know that sales of the 7D are doing the job too so why replace it. The 5D Mrk II is in need of an upgrade for loads of reasons. So for me the 7D Mrk II is not a likely outcome in my opinion. What we are looking at here I'm 99.9% sure is the 5D Mrk III. Just all in my opinion.

[NormanBates]

"The pictures taken for this leak are pretty extraordinary compared to the stuff we’ve seen in the past"

as you'd expect: this time they're testing the camera in a place where the would-be paparazzi have some very long lenses mounted on their cameras

[NotABunny]

How about a FF sensor that can do crop? Like Nikon's ...

Say, you are shooting FF, then you switch to APS-C mode and it can shoot like a 7D, with reduced pixels, but the same 1.6X on the focal length. That would certainly satisfy both sides. If you want high FPS, then you'd need the 1DX. Makes sense from a business perspective.

Other than less space wasted what would that serve? 1.6x crop does you nothing by itself for actual effective reach delivered. Of course giant files for small birds in the middle are a waste, true enough.
It might help boost FPS but the Digic 5+ should be way fast enough for at least 6 FPS anyway even at FF and 30MP nevermind 18-21MP.

That's the whole point though. You get the 1.6X reach ... wait ... I haven't owned a crop Canon body before. Does the 1.6X reach have anything to do with how close the lens is to the sensor, or is it merely the sensor size being 1/1.6 times FF?

It is due to the fact that the pixel density is higher. That is, if you get a shot with both FF and APSC (everything else being equal), you get more cropping capabilities with the APSC. The FF would need to have 2.56 times more pixels in order to provide the same cropping capabilities.

The reverse is that the pixels get progressively worse looking (because they get smaller). Ultimately, you get the look of compact cameras (at least if you get a pixel density of around 200...300 MP FF-equivalent).

[MagnusF]

Oh man, i just sold my 7D to buy the 5D mark ii + 24-105 for $2799.

The offer ends feb 7th, hmm where have i heard that date before?

Now i cant decide if i should get it or wait...

[bycostello]

5DX would seem in keeping with the other stuff being released...

[Viggo]

I think I am going to trust Canon on the resolution and I have no problem being on board with 21% larger pixels in the 1d X will kill everything in the 25 mp range when it comes to IQ.

[Rank_90]

Oh man, i just sold my 7D to buy the 5D mark ii + 24-105 for $2799.

The offer ends feb 7th, hmm where have i heard that date before?

Now i cant decide if i should get it or wait...

You wait mate! Simples...

[Tijn]

To summarize the last 25 pages of rumor on this body:

It looks to be a 7D body (pretty much exact same button layout), but with a strange viewfinder bulge instead of pop-up flash (which would indicate FF), yet the viewfinder opening itself does not look like a classic FF one (rather, a crop or perhaps APS-H..?). However, some Smart persona noticed that the 1D X (FF) also has a visible viewfinder cutout, though it seems to be wider than the one in this picture. So this being a FF body with a 7D button layout (like a 5D mk3 with layout makeover) is not impossible; but it could also be APS-H.
If were APS-C, perhaps the bulge indicates a new nifty feature. IR AF assist, or IR flash trigger?

Other remarks:
- A new "rate" button; its placement suggests that it's to rate pictures with, not to change framerate.
- Dual card slot (icon seen at the top LCD in some picture).
- The original source shows pictures of two bodies, the 1D X and this new "mystery body" (probably 5D mk3).
- Bird photographed authentic and correct subspecies to the supposed location of this picture taken. (Helmeted Guineafowl)
- Missing "creative auto" mode on mode dial.

(akiskev's image, nicely done)

[surfing_geek]

This whole attitude of only FF is pro is a really outdated mindset.

I totally agree. As has been said countless times on here, they are both just tools for different jobs. Crop sensors are perfect for those wanting the extra reach. Yes, you could crop in PP, but why bother if you can get it right in-camera? And as pointed out earlier (I wasn't quick enough!), using the logic that only FF should have single-digit/pro designation means that the 1d series should never have been considered professional, being aps-h with a 1.3x crop.

And my vote goes to the 7d mkii. Why? Cos that's what I want to see!

[smirkypants]

I promise you this Mr. Canon Person in Charge... if you get me a 7D2 and that 200-400/f4 lens by year's end, I promise that I will never consider jumping ship to Nikon again to get that spectacular 200-400/f4 lens, even though the D300s is a turd compared to my 7D and a steaming turd next to my 1D4.