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Author Topic: Announcement Date? [CR1]  (Read 12375 times)

mathino

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2012, 10:23:49 AM »
Specs: Another mention of 22mp resolution came in...

What if they just use the same sensor as in the 5DII in a new 5DIII?  No one seems to be complaining about the performance of that sensor - so why not leave it alone and improve other features?  This rumor of a 22 MP sensor?  Note that the 5DII already has a 22 MP sensor, with 21.1 MP effective pixels.  Check the specs...

Exaclty. Current 5D Mk II has 22 Mpx but effective are 21.1 Mpx so they actually can reuse it. And as for sensor performance I havent heard any complains either. Canon can just upgrade other features (processor/s, AF, someting new) and leave sensor as it is. And this also reduces R&D costs. Hope our questions will be answered in 2 weeks :-)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 10:27:04 AM by mathino »
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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2012, 10:23:49 AM »

moreorless

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2012, 10:28:07 AM »
The 5DIII as relly an almost baby-1D X?  I'll play devil's advocate to my own viewpoint, and ask why not?  Canon has to have a flagship, a truly top of the line pro camera.  But they merged the 1D and 1Ds (or eliminated the 1Ds and made the 1D a FF camera, if you prefer) - still having a flagship, but not two of them.  I have no doubt that the 5DII made them more profit than the 1DsIII and 1D IV combined.  So, why not combine the 1-series, which they did, and not expect to make a hefty profit from that line.  Make the 5DIII a significant improvement over the 5DII by giving it an excellent AF system, forget about 'cannabalizing' 1D X sales, the 5DIII is the real profit engine, so make it as good as possible.

I can say this, though - if they release a 5DIII with 22 MP and a “pro level” AF system (e.g. recycle the 1DsIII AF), leaving the main differentator from the 1D X as the frame rate (still 4 fps, even), I'd be quite interested - perhaps enough to get the 5DIII instead of the 1D X.  Don't worry, Canon  ::)  the money saved will go toward lenses....

A potential 1DX/5D mk3 combination strikes me as being as very different situation to the 1Ds mk3 and the 5D mk2 .

To me it seems like the merging of the 1D line was more a case of more clearly defining its role where as the 1Ds was short of playing too two markets, part AF/FPS shooters who were willing to trade a bit of the latter for higher resolution/FF and part studio/landscape shooters. The latter part obviously had much less need to buy the 1Ds mk3 when the 5D mk2 offered a near indentical sensor.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 10:32:30 AM by moreorless »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2012, 10:32:15 AM »
Specs: Another mention of 22mp resolution came in...

What if they just use the same sensor as in the 5DII in a new 5DIII?  No one seems to be complaining about the performance of that sensor - so why not leave it alone and improve other features?  This rumor of a 22 MP sensor?  Note that the 5DII already has a 22 MP sensor, with 21.1 MP effective pixels.  Check the specs...

I certainly have no complaints, its everything that was advertised and more when I pre-ordered almost 3-1/2 years ago. 

However, I constantly find myself wanting to use higher ISO's for extreme low light images, and that is the feature that would cause me to upgrade more than a better autofocus, even though that is a very desirable feature.  Thats why I'm interested in the 1Dx, and wonder at its actual usable ISO for raw output.

It does not seem to me to be very likely that I'd gain more than 1/2 stop in raw with a 5D MK III and 22 mp, sensor technology has not moved that much in three years, even though Digic V will definitely do 2 stops better with jpeg out.  There is a lot of ability to crop with 21mp, and I make use that, because shooting with primes, I sometimes cannot get the exact right distance, and there are no f/1.4 or even f/2 zooms for my camera.

kidnaper

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2012, 01:39:15 PM »

I can say this, though - if they release a 5DIII with 22 MP and a “pro level” AF system (e.g. recycle the 1DsIII AF), leaving the main differentator from the 1D X as the frame rate (still 4 fps, even), I'd be quite interested - perhaps enough to get the 5DIII instead of the 1D X.  Don't worry, Canon  ::)  the money saved will go toward lenses....

Beginning to sound like a 1Ds4 in a small body ....  8) 8) 8)

In terms of specs... However one of the reasons the 1 series loses the mode dial for buttons is the weather sealing. With a mode dial instead of buttons it either won't be sealed as well, or they'll need some tricks up their sleeves. You better believe, though, that I am very interested.
5DIII 8-200mm minus 35mm in there.

Meh

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2012, 02:49:46 PM »

It does not seem to me to be very likely that I'd gain more than 1/2 stop in raw with a 5D MK III and 22 mp, sensor technology has not moved that much in three years

Actually I think it has.  The 1D4 sensor (with higher pixel density that 5D2) already has about 1/2 stop better ISO than 5D2.  More recent sensors from Sony seem to have further reduced read noise at all ISO settings and also appear to have increased the fill factor (the % of each pixel that has the photo-diode, bigger photosites despite higher pixel density).  The 1DX sensor claims seem to be in line with these improvements.

However, it is an interesting thought that Canon might stick with the 5D2 sensor and improve the other aspects of the body.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 02:51:57 PM by Meh »

thewallbanger

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2012, 03:01:13 PM »
Specs: Another mention of 22mp resolution came in...

What if they just use the same sensor as in the 5DII in a new 5DIII?  No one seems to be complaining about the performance of that sensor - so why not leave it alone and improve other features?  This rumor of a 22 MP sensor?  Note that the 5DII already has a 22 MP sensor, with 21.1 MP effective pixels.  Check the specs...

Well, Nikon tried this with the D300S.  It resulted in lack-luster sales, and its performance was soon surpassed by younger, more affordable bodies such as the D70.  I'm not so sure Canon would take that risk with their full-frame crown jewel, especially considering the Nikon D800 release is fast approaching.
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Meh

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »
Specs: Another mention of 22mp resolution came in...

What if they just use the same sensor as in the 5DII in a new 5DIII?  No one seems to be complaining about the performance of that sensor - so why not leave it alone and improve other features?  This rumor of a 22 MP sensor?  Note that the 5DII already has a 22 MP sensor, with 21.1 MP effective pixels.  Check the specs...

Well, Nikon tried this with the D300S.  It resulted in lack-luster sales, and its performance was soon surpassed by younger, more affordable bodies such as the D70.  I'm not so sure Canon would take that risk with their full-frame crown jewel, especially considering the Nikon D800 release is fast approaching.

Good point as well.   "If it ain't broke don't fix it" doesn't hold much water in marketing a new product.

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2012, 03:20:53 PM »
I'm not so sure Canon would take that risk with their full-frame crown jewel, especially considering the Nikon D800 release is fast approaching.

Good point as well.   "If it ain't broke don't fix it" doesn't hold much water in marketing a new product.

The 1D X is the 'full frame crown jewel' not the 5D-line. 

Marketing would have no problem with it - that's the whole point of marketing.  "This way to the great egress."  Same sensor but with Digic5+ means:

Two full stops better ISO performance than the 5D Mark II

(The invisible asterisk that you don't see points to an equally-invisible reference to the fact that the 2 stop improvement applies only to JPG images)
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waving_odd

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2012, 03:36:45 PM »
I certainly have no complaints, its everything that was advertised and more when I pre-ordered almost 3-1/2 years ago. 

However, I constantly find myself wanting to use higher ISO's for extreme low light images, and that is the feature that would cause me to upgrade more than a better autofocus, even though that is a very desirable feature.  Thats why I'm interested in the 1Dx, and wonder at its actual usable ISO for raw output.

As a wedding photog, I have been stuck with the 5D II for 3 years with no better choice that can provide me a better balance between IQ, ISO, and AF.  I don't like its AF, but I can't live with 7D's IQ.  I like 1D4's ISO, but I can't live with its cropped sensor.  I like 1Ds3's IQ and AF, but I can't live with its ISO.

So naturally, I have high hope on 1D X as they claim it's the best-of-all-time all-around flagship from Canon, with the understanding that 18MP is no big difference to 21MP.  And like what Mt Spokane said, ISO is the BIG thing for wedding togs.  1D X sounds like the ultimate answer.

But as a landscape shooting lover, another side of me also wants the highest MP and DR possible, while that side of me can safely ignores ISO, AF, etc.

I think there is no one single silver bullet that kills all.  At least not for me.  I want both 1D X (if works as claimed) and 5D III (or the next FF with whatever name)!!!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 03:41:36 PM by waving_odd »

Meh

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2012, 03:41:23 PM »
@neuro  touché, well played sir

well_dunno

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2012, 04:22:36 PM »

I can say this, though - if they release a 5DIII with 22 MP and a “pro level” AF system (e.g. recycle the 1DsIII AF), leaving the main differentator from the 1D X as the frame rate (still 4 fps, even), I'd be quite interested - perhaps enough to get the 5DIII instead of the 1D X.  Don't worry, Canon  ::)  the money saved will go toward lenses....

Beginning to sound like a 1Ds4 in a small body ....  8) 8) 8)

Yes please! That is the camera I am looking for.  8)

tt

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2012, 06:02:33 PM »
Specs: Another mention of 22mp resolution came in...

What if they just use the same sensor as in the 5DII in a new 5DIII?  No one seems to be complaining about the performance of that sensor - so why not leave it alone and improve other features?

Is the banding of the 5D MkII's sensor any issue, or something they could improve on easily? I've heard it mentioned, but mostly great things about the sensor.

Meh

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2012, 09:45:22 PM »
Here's a link to a description of the latest Sony improvement to the BSI sensors... stacked CMOS where all the circuitry is in a lower layer allowing close to 100% fill factor and eliminating another advantage of CCD sensors.  So still some room for advancement in DSLR sensors as well (unless this Sony design has limitations in speed or image quality that would preclude it from being used in a DSLR).

http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2012/01/new-gear-sony-redesigns-backlit-cmos-cellphones

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2012, 09:45:22 PM »

waving_odd

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2012, 12:15:56 AM »
Nikon is apparently announcing on February 7, 2012. This comes two days before the CP+ show opens in Yokohama, Japan. A suspected D800 and 5D Mark III (or similar) on the same day?

Back to the original topic, NL quotes from his Nikon source that "... it was said that we should expect a D3200 at CP+, and that the D800 that everyone seems to expect as a racing certainty, may well be held back until after the D4 is shipping..."

And his Canon source suggests that "...we've been told (thanks) that the only Canon DSLR for CP+ will be the 650D/T4i and that the 5D3 won't be announced until after the 1D X ships..."

Sounds like they are both clearing the way for their flagships first.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 01:03:02 PM by waving_odd »

Blaze

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2012, 01:27:33 AM »

Note that Nikon Rumors also indicates that both D800 and D300s are just officially discontinued on Nikon's website.  So their successors are still imminent.

I think you mean D700. The D800 hasn't even been announced.

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Re: Announcement Date? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2012, 01:27:33 AM »