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Author Topic: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup  (Read 36774 times)

CarebbianTraveler

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2012, 03:13:54 PM »
I'm wondering what most people would more be able to recognize in a ordinary photography (not a test setup): 8 more MPs of resolution or ~1 stop of dynamic range?


Nearly all displays have 8bit per channel and maximum 4MP. The contrast of the printers depends on the paper, but is definitely not better than a display. But there's a chance to see a difference between a 12 and a 20MP print, when it's at least A3.

But having a display with 16bits and a high contrast would be great, because my eyes are better than the standard 8 bits  ;-)

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2012, 03:13:54 PM »

marius

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2012, 03:16:41 PM »

Canon has been behind the competition in DR/ISO for years, and so far (until the 1D X)

"until" 1DX?! Where is the proof that 1DX has better DR as the competition? 

The competition, of course, was behind on resolution.

Of, course since 2008 we have Nikon D3X with 24 MP and Sony Alpha A900, too.

marius

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #152 on: January 25, 2012, 03:19:29 PM »
I'm wondering what most people would more be able to recognize in a ordinary photography (not a test setup): 8 more MPs of resolution or ~1 stop of dynamic range?

The photographic tehnique, of course  8)

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #153 on: January 25, 2012, 03:28:59 PM »

Canon has been behind the competition in DR/ISO for years, and so far (until the 1D X)

"until" 1DX?! Where is the proof that 1DX has better DR as the competition? 

Please don't exerpt in such a way that the meaning of the quote is altered.  What I stated was:

Canon has been behind the competition in DR/ISO for years, and so far (until the 1D X) has shown no inclination to change that.

...meaning that with the 1D X, Canon has now apparently shown an inclination to tackle the issues of ISO noise and DR.  I didn't say that they've succeeded - we won't have any idea of how effective their efforts were until we see 1D X RAW files.

Then again, maybe they haven't shown that...perhaps the 1D X has less MP than the 5DII only so Canon could deliver a higher frame rate.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 03:31:09 PM by neuroanatomist »
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EYEONE

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #154 on: January 25, 2012, 03:44:36 PM »
I'm wondering what most people would more be able to recognize in a ordinary photography (not a test setup): 8 more MPs of resolution or ~1 stop of dynamic range?

The photographic tehnique, of course  8)

Well, true if we were discussing the merits of a good photograph.

Which we weren't.
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CarebbianTraveler

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #155 on: January 25, 2012, 03:54:37 PM »
Then again, maybe they haven't shown that...perhaps the 1D X has less MP than the 5DII only so Canon could deliver a higher frame rate.

I can't find the article, but that's basically what a canon employee said: The problem is the pixel reset time. The bigger the sensor and the more pixels it has, the longer it takes. When the pixels aren't reset properly, artifacts may appear.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #156 on: January 25, 2012, 09:03:36 PM »
It doesn't make any sense for Canon to develop a another full frame sensor in addition to the 18MP sensor of the 1D X. Using the same sensor as the 1D X is the only thing that makes sense from a cost point of view. Canon is not a charity, they are in the market to make money.

To all who are thinking that the next 5D will inevitable have the same sensor, since everything else will be canons ruin:
None of the 5D sensors have ever been the same as those from the 1Ds line.
  • The 5d had 12.8MP while the 1DsMK2 had 16.6MP.
  • The 5dMK2 has a similar sensor like the 1DsMK3, but not the same: DPReview says:
    Quote
    21.1 megapixel full frame CMOS sensor
    The EOS 5D Mark II delivers an 8.3 megapixel jump in pixel count from the original 5D. This new sensor is said to be based on that of the EOS-1Ds Mark III (indeed it has exactly the same pixel count) but has several small changes, the hint being that it's actually slightly better.

So, alltogether, history convinces me more that the 5dMKwhatever will have a different sensor.

What, to be honest, I never understood within canons policy was the 7D. The 3rd cropped line sharing the same sensor. I'd hve awited that canon would bring a 7D with 1.3 crop back then, but they didn't. Now I don't understand what the xxD-Line is good for. But hey, canon knows how to make money  ;)

5D2 and 1Ds3 had same sensor itself but the 1Ds3 bonded the filters and stuff on in a better and fancier way and the color filters appear to be different and maybe some of the late stage read electronics, so taken all together not the same, but the actual light detecting sensor sensor part of it same

it had worse pattern noise, but a trace less photon noise since the filter array was a bit more color-blind


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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #156 on: January 25, 2012, 09:03:36 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #157 on: January 25, 2012, 09:06:37 PM »
ATTENTION:  I'm tired of reading through pages and pages of wish lists,  "oh if it has better dynamic range and better high ISO performance I'm getting it."  That's pretty much the stupidest and most obvious thing you could hope for in this camera (or any upcoming camera).  Of course EVERYTHING that Canon is releasing is going to have better dynamic range and lower noise at high ISO, that's just a given and it's a waste of bandwidth to even mention inevitable upgrades such as these.

Like Canon is going to forget to improve the dynamic range and iso performance if you don't mention it here on the boards, they are a multi-billion dollar company people where is the trust?  Some of you guys act like Canon is just a group of retards that don't know what they are doing, they don't need your advice.

they haven't done a lot for usable DR in a long time

and even SNR has only crept up a bit (they got to a decent level much more quickly than Nikon/Sony but then haven't improved it by a ton, although it has gotten better)

iP337

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #158 on: January 26, 2012, 05:31:51 AM »
I for one really like the idea of an APS-H sensor in a sub $2000 line like the 7D.  I still love using my 5D2 and 7D, they have a lot of life left in them still so I'm not compelled to upgrade them anytime soon but at this point I'm looking for a new useful shooting option in an affordable package like an $1800 7Dmk2 to slot between my 5D2 and 7D to increase my shooting options without bankrupting me ;D (Was planning on a Panasonic Micro Four Thirds but rather have a Canon APS-H)

I think that's a 7DmkII in the pic cause it makes sense to release a 7DmkII right now; Nikon is rumored to announce the D800 soon so Canon may feel the need for something new as well, but the 1DX is about to release and announcing it's "affordable full frame alternative" now can only hurt 1DX pre-sales (Though Nikon seems to be doing just that with the D800 announcement just before their D4 release, lol.), also as mentioned here before it's a big sports year 2012 (but not a big studio year) and too many of the recent Canon models are competing with each other killing the x0D line (semi-pros go to 7D while consumers go with 600D, so what's the 60D for?! semi-consumers? no wait that's 1100D.)

Canon said starting with the 1DX they will be "cleaning up" their DSLR models, but they also claimed to have no intention of abandoning APS-H.  Canon is in a great position to make the 7D line the "Sports"(APS-H)cameras, the 5D line the "Studio" camera and the 1DX into an "EVERYTHING" camera while giving the x0D line it's "Semi-Pros" back.

Also it would be interesting if Canon made a 16:9 APS-H sensor, since back in the film days APS-H (known as APS-High Definition) was 16:9 for landscape photography not 3:2 like APS-Classic or 135 Film.  This could be a 16:9 LCD on the back of the “mystery body” to go with a 16:9 sensor.  If they did make this, then the HDMI out with a 16:9 sensor wouldn’t have those pillar bars or crop marks that the current 7D’s HDMI out has due to it’s 3:2 sensor, this could be the “clean” HDMI out camera we’ve been waiting for!  Nikon’s already doing a clean HDMI out with the D4 by cropping a 16:9 portion of their 3:2 so you know Canon has to do something and the current 7D almost already has it.

Aww, I just set myself up for a big let down later haven't I? That camera's probably just a 5DmkIII with a 16:9 LCD display that drops to 3:2 when you hit record  :-\

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #159 on: January 26, 2012, 06:01:13 AM »
Yes, I think you've set yourself up for disappointment, mainly because we all see what we want to see. Allow me to humorously re-order your statements to what I think you really mean:  ;)

I think that's a 7DmkII in the pic cause...

I for one really like the idea of an APS-H sensor in a sub $2000 line like the 7D...I'm looking for a new useful shooting option in an affordable package like an $1800 7Dmk2.

I like the idea, too, but unfortunately, I think it's pretty unlikely.
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iP337

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #160 on: January 26, 2012, 01:42:00 PM »
Yes, I think you've set yourself up for disappointment, mainly because we all see what we want to see. Allow me to humorously re-order your statements to what I think you really mean:  ;)

I think that's a 7DmkII in the pic cause...

I for one really like the idea of an APS-H sensor in a sub $2000 line like the 7D...I'm looking for a new useful shooting option in an affordable package like an $1800 7Dmk2.

I like the idea, too, but unfortunately, I think it's pretty unlikely.

Lol, it's true, I have been fantasizing of adding an APS-H body to my bag but a 1Dmk4 is just a bit too much for me to rationalize the cost and I usually won't upgrade for a few extra MP or slightly increased DR, I was still happy shooting the D60 and 20D until the 5Dmk2 came out. (Well that's not really true, I desperately wanted a 5Dc and 40D but kept spending the money on my car, lol.) 

mb1984

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2012, 03:16:20 PM »
Also it would be interesting if Canon made a 16:9 APS-H sensor, since back in the film days APS-H (known as APS-High Definition) was 16:9 for landscape photography not 3:2 like APS-Classic or 135 Film.  This could be a 16:9 LCD on the back of the “mystery body” to go with a 16:9 sensor.  If they did make this, then the HDMI out with a 16:9 sensor wouldn’t have those pillar bars or crop marks that the current 7D’s HDMI out has due to it’s 3:2 sensor, this could be the “clean” HDMI out camera we’ve been waiting for!  Nikon’s already doing a clean HDMI out with the D4 by cropping a 16:9 portion of their 3:2 so you know Canon has to do something and the current 7D almost already has it.

Aww, I just set myself up for a big let down later haven't I? That camera's probably just a 5DmkIII with a 16:9 LCD display that drops to 3:2 when you hit record  :-\


Well, I think that this is going to be the first lens for this new sensor size then  ;D
But indeed, I can't see any advantage in a 16:9 sensorsize in the digital age. Why should I drop a part of excellent image information (my lens was made for) in every picture? I'm able to crop it even automatically if I want to have this portion ?!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 03:37:47 PM by mb1984 »

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Re: 5D Mark III (or other) Followup
« Reply #161 on: January 26, 2012, 03:16:20 PM »