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Author Topic: 5d Mark iii sync speed  (Read 10411 times)

smirkypants

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 08:28:44 PM »
Still dont know how to fit them to my 400 f/2.8 .... apart from which I want to be taking BIF pictures at 1/2000 or faster at f/5.6 ( for big birds).

Seems crazy to add layers of IQ destroying glass just because you cant sync the flash  ::) ::) ::)

So I have gone the pw way and flash extender. In my thinking this is the best way without messing with the lighting - for example a stag in the dappled shade of a wood. Unless you are up tight and personal with the subject then the either the surrounding landscape lighting is destroyed or you get motion blur from having the shutter speed at the comparatively slow max sync
You are absolutely correct, in your case it's not a good option, but it might be for others seeking to overcome the limitations of the sync speed ceiling.

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 08:28:44 PM »

cpsico

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2012, 08:48:22 PM »
Haven't heard any rumors, but the 1D X only manages 1/250 s, same as the 1DsIII.  I think the 5DIII will stay at 1/200 s.

Strange the 1d4 is 1/300 - usefull for the 70-200 on a 1.3 :D
I remember reading the higher flash sync is better achieved on the crop sensors

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2012, 09:06:17 PM »
Still dont know how to fit them to my 400 f/2.8 ....

Perhaps the drop-in filter holder in your lens?  There's actually a clear filter in there now (or at least, there should be - Canon states that the optical design of the lens incorporates a filter in the holder, and they recommend either a clear filter or clear gelatin, and recommend against leaving the holder empty).
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briansquibb

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 12:11:47 AM »
Still dont know how to fit them to my 400 f/2.8 ....

Perhaps the drop-in filter holder in your lens?  There's actually a clear filter in there now (or at least, there should be - Canon states that the optical design of the lens incorporates a filter in the holder, and they recommend either a clear filter or clear gelatin, and recommend against leaving the holder empty).

In those sunny days I would be using the drop in pl.

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 01:37:46 AM »
Strange the 1d4 is 1/300 - usefull for the 70-200 on a 1.3 :D

Smaller sensor, which means a smaller shutter, and thus a shorter distance for the curtains to traverse. Thus, a faster sync speed.

One of the very nice things about the original 1D was the 500th shutter sync speed. I was a bit miffed when I got my 1D Mk2n with 300th sync. Yes, I'd be surprised if the 5D3 was anything faster than 200th sync.

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martins982

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 04:54:55 AM »
I wonder if they will put a built in ND filter like they have done in the G1x camera It is probably alot cheaper for them to do that than to put a very expensive high performance shutter in to to increase sync speed 

Flake

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 06:14:45 AM »
Amazing that no one has mentioned High Speed Sync!  (HSS) where the camera will sync at more or less any speed you like! I've had the 5D MkII sync at 1/4000th.  OK there are are downsides, like the lack of power, and the fact it makes the flash gun work hard, but it is a feature included just for this specific purpose, and you can always use multiple guns to up the power if you need.

Alternatively there's static light which needs either mains or a generator, but will overcome daylight.  And as a slightly different approach, this is a problem associated with focal plane shutters, so get an adaptor and a lens with a leaf shutter, set the DSLR in bulb mode and then fire the leaf shutter which will sync at much faster speeds.

Or you use a tripod expose the sky, move the subject in, and expose for them  & either do an HDR or cut & shut.

Sometimes a camera will just not be capable of doing what you want, and you have to be prepared to do a work around.

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 06:14:45 AM »

Emeyerphoto

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2012, 12:10:54 PM »
Haven't heard any rumors, but the 1D X only manages 1/250 s, same as the 1DsIII.  I think the 5DIII will stay at 1/200 s.

Strange the 1d4 is 1/300 - usefull for the 70-200 on a 1.3 :D
I remember reading the higher flash sync is better achieved on the crop sensors

I don't believe this argument.  If it was better achieved on the crop sensors, then why did the EOS 1, EOS 1n, and 1V all have 1/250 sync speed?  If I am mistaken, I apologize but these are film cameras so the full frame versus crop sensor frame reasoning seems odd to me.  If the argument of crop sensors only achieving this sync speed, then they would all have sync speeds of 1/200 or possibly less.  Could you explain further why 1/250 worked on a film camera but only full frame digital cameras only allow 1/200?
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smirkypants

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2012, 12:30:54 PM »
zCould you explain further why 1/250 worked on a film camera but only full frame digital cameras only allow 1/200?
The sync speed is the fastest speed at which the entire sensor is exposed at once. At faster than max sync speed, only parts of the sensor are exposed at a time so if the flash fires (when it's not HSS) it gets only part of the image, and thus banding. There are two curtains that travel over the sensor that must traverse a larger distance on a full frame camera. Smaller travel distances = higher possible sync speeds.

It's as simple as that.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 12:39:29 PM by smirkypants »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2012, 12:45:29 PM »
I don't believe this argument.  If it was better achieved on the crop sensors, then why did the EOS 1, EOS 1n, and 1V all have 1/250 sync speed?  If I am mistaken, I apologize but these are film cameras so the full frame versus crop sensor frame reasoning seems odd to me.  If the argument of crop sensors only achieving this sync speed, then they would all have sync speeds of 1/200 or possibly less.  Could you explain further why 1/250 worked on a film camera but only full frame digital cameras only allow 1/200?

Not necessarily better achieved, but easier to achieve.

Two things determine the max sync speed - the size of the sensor and the design of the shutter.  The smaller the sensor, the shorter the distance the curtains must move, and thus the faster they can cover that distance.  That means higher sync speeds are easier to achieve with smaller sensors.  But the design of the shutter matters, too - if the curtains can move faster (lighter curtains, stronger motors), a higher sync speed is possible.  That's why the 1-series models (film and digital) have higher sync speeds - they have better (and of course, more expensive) shutter mechanisms.  You can see the effect of the distance the curtains need to travel when you compare the 1DIV vs. the 1DsIII - both have the highest-end shutter motors and lightest curtains (titanium, I believe), but the FF 1DsIII has 1/250 s like the film cameras you mentioned, whereas the APS-H 1D IV has a 1/300 s sync speed.

The crop bodies don't have a higher sync speed because they are consumer/prosumer models and Canon doesn't choose to put their best shutter mechanisms in those cameras.  But by extrapolation from the 1DsIII to 1D IV, if that same pro-level shutter mechanism was put in an APS-C body, you'd expect a sync speed of 1/350 s or a little faster.
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Flake

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2012, 01:06:22 PM »
Just to stir the mud a little more, the G12 will sync without using HSS at 1/4000th although for some odd reason not with the ST-E2 where it's a little slower.  It's left me wondering the kind of shutter the G1X is going to have, focal plane as per the NEX or electronic like the G12.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2012, 01:59:13 PM »
Just to stir the mud a little more, the G12 will sync without using HSS at 1/4000th although for some odd reason not with the ST-E2 where it's a little slower.  It's left me wondering the kind of shutter the G1X is going to have, focal plane as per the NEX or electronic like the G12.

Does the G1X have a focal plane shutter?  My guess based on the above is no - a 1/4000 sync speed means electronic 'curtains'.
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Viggo

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2012, 02:07:20 PM »
Just to stir the mud a little more, the G12 will sync without using HSS at 1/4000th although for some odd reason not with the ST-E2 where it's a little slower.  It's left me wondering the kind of shutter the G1X is going to have, focal plane as per the NEX or electronic like the G12.

Does the G1X have a focal plane shutter?  My guess based on the above is no - a 1/4000 sync speed means electronic 'curtains'.

I used to have a Sony compact that also synced at 1/1000s and froze action like nothing else. I understand how the shutter of an SLR works, but I have never thought of what the negative sides to an electronic "curtain" is? Can someone fill me in? Why doesn't the slr's use electronic "curtains"? You could still have the mirror and everything, right?
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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2012, 02:07:20 PM »

7enderbender

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2012, 02:25:43 PM »
Just to stir the mud a little more, the G12 will sync without using HSS at 1/4000th although for some odd reason not with the ST-E2 where it's a little slower.  It's left me wondering the kind of shutter the G1X is going to have, focal plane as per the NEX or electronic like the G12.

Does the G1X have a focal plane shutter?  My guess based on the above is no - a 1/4000 sync speed means electronic 'curtains'.

I used to have a Sony compact that also synced at 1/1000s and froze action like nothing else. I understand how the shutter of an SLR works, but I have never thought of what the negative sides to an electronic "curtain" is? Can someone fill me in? Why doesn't the slr's use electronic "curtains"? You could still have the mirror and everything, right?

I'm sure others will provide more detail on this but I believe it has to do with the sensor type. The G12 has a CCD sensor while the Canon SLRs have CMOS sensors. From all I know there are pros and cons to both types but what you describe is one difference where it's easier to accomplish different behaviors in one way or another.

Leaf shutters like on medium format cameras would be another option to increase sync speed.

In any case, neither have anything to do with freezing action since you can do that even at slow shutter speeds. Things like high speed sync (or high shutter sync speeds) are more important to control ambient light.
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Viggo

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »
Just to stir the mud a little more, the G12 will sync without using HSS at 1/4000th although for some odd reason not with the ST-E2 where it's a little slower.  It's left me wondering the kind of shutter the G1X is going to have, focal plane as per the NEX or electronic like the G12.

Does the G1X have a focal plane shutter?  My guess based on the above is no - a 1/4000 sync speed means electronic 'curtains'.

I used to have a Sony compact that also synced at 1/1000s and froze action like nothing else. I understand how the shutter of an SLR works, but I have never thought of what the negative sides to an electronic "curtain" is? Can someone fill me in? Why doesn't the slr's use electronic "curtains"? You could still have the mirror and everything, right?

I'm sure others will provide more detail on this but I believe it has to do with the sensor type. The G12 has a CCD sensor while the Canon SLRs have CMOS sensors. From all I know there are pros and cons to both types but what you describe is one difference where it's easier to accomplish different behaviors in one way or another.

Leaf shutters like on medium format cameras would be another option to increase sync speed.

In any case, neither have anything to do with freezing action since you can do that even at slow shutter speeds. Things like high speed sync (or high shutter sync speeds) are more important to control ambient light.

Thanks, yeah, I was out with my son shooting wirless flash, and even in a normal minus daylight, I had the 580 on full power, and it wasn't exactly all I needed...

1dx, 24-70 L II, 50 Art, 200 f2.0 L

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Re: 5d Mark iii sync speed
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »