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Author Topic: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?  (Read 6334 times)

jrista

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Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« on: January 25, 2012, 12:42:24 AM »
I just purchased a 7D in late November, almost two months ago now, and am really loving it. Its an excellent camera, ergonomics are excellent, fps and buffer depth are great (almost too great...8fps takes some getting used to), AF is pretty amazing (I never really understood AI Servo...now it makes total sense and is AMAZING), and the features and functionality are amazing in comparison to the Rebel line I used to use. I don't really have any complaints, outside of IQ...which while great when cropped for web or in print, seems to induce rather severe psychological twitches when pixel-peeping (ISO performance just isn't comparable to the competition from the latest Nikon bodies and the like.)

The rumor mill seems to have really picked up speed lately about a 7D Mark II. I've heard a lot of mention about it arriving by end of year. I suspect that any 7D successor will resolve the IQ issue, and maybe bring some improvements to AF (if thats possible...its pretty damn nice as it is for the price!) IQ improvements aside, is there really much else that can be improved enough to warrant a 7D II this year? I would be rather dismayed to have purchased the 7D less than a year before its replacement came out, especially if it has two stops improvement in native ISO (which, given that I shoot a lot of wildlife at and just after sunset in particularly dim light, would be REALLY helpful!)

So...is it really all that likely that a 7D II will hit the streets within the next year? Or is it all just wild speculation? How much life does the 7D have left in it?
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wickidwombat

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 01:11:02 AM »
If you need to get on top of cleaning up that noise give topaz de-noise a try you can download a free trial and see if you like it, I use it all the time.
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jrista

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2012, 03:06:33 AM »
I'm not really all that concerned about noise for viewing on the web and smaller prints. Its just that I'm stuck shooting wildlife in the dim evening most of the time, and that usually requires ISO 1600-3200. It doesn't really matter what camera you have, ISO 3200 is really pushing it. If the 7D II ends up with 1D X style sensor improvements, with excellent ISO performance and low noise up to ISO 25600, then I would feel like I should have waited a year. Usable ISO 3200 would do wonders for what I shoot, I'd have to upgrade, and I really hate taking a loss on any investment...I doubt I could sell a 7D I for close to what I bought it for.
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candyman

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2012, 03:57:52 AM »

So...is it really all that likely that a 7D II will hit the streets within the next year? Or is it all just wild speculation? How much life does the 7D have left in it?



In 2012 we see 1D-X, 650D and the successor of the 5D MKII along with some lenses.

I believe that the 7D is a very good camera and has enough life in it to go along for a few years. So I believe that only next year a 7D MKII may hit the market. Announcement at the end of this year.





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JR

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2012, 05:11:58 AM »
If Canon lineup does not change (ie 5DmkIII, 7DmkII, etc) then maybe we are still 12 months away from a 7DmkII.  However if Canon were to surprise us and merge the 5D and 7D as per the recent photo posted by great and come out with a 5DX for example, then you may see your replacement sooner!  Still very speculative at this point but we should have better indication of Canon's intention once the next camera body is announced in Feb...
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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2012, 05:13:40 AM »
If you need to get on top of cleaning up that noise give topaz de-noise a try you can download a free trial and see if you like it, I use it all the time.

wickidwombat, I looked at the topaz website and they actually seem to have some interesting suite of product there.  Have you been able to compare the de-noise plus-in with the noise reduction features found in Lightroom 3?  Is it the same or much better?

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willrobb

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2012, 05:25:50 AM »
The 7D does rock, except for the IQ at high ISO, so I ended up getting rid of mine  :-*

I would like to think a 7DmkII would address this issue, but if it had a 1DX type sensor and much better IQ it'd probably eat into 1DX sales, so perhaps not a huge increase. Hope I am wrong though...

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2012, 06:09:05 AM »
My guess for the 7DII announcement date is Photokina 2012.
That would give the 7D a 3 year lifespan, which used to be more or less the norm for their pro-DSLRs in the past.

The 7D does rock, except for the IQ at high ISO, so I ended up getting rid of mine  :-*
IMHO the high ISO is not a problem on the 7D. It's better than any APS-C camera from Canon before it. I've good a lot of keepers from this camera in the ISO 2500 - 5000 range

What bothers me mostly with the 7D is the medium ISO range, e.g. grainy skies at ISO 400.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 06:16:04 AM by foobar »

PeterJ

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2012, 07:52:14 AM »
I would so much rather have 400 ISO at 1/4000 than 3200 ISO at 1/500, but Auto almost always chooses the 3200 ISO, which is maddening.
For the same shot :o. Just kidding I know that was probably a typo, but agree it does limit the use of auto ISO in anything but manual.

Kernuak

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2012, 09:01:59 AM »
I think some of the complaints surrounding the 7D are actually Lightroom associated. Certainly LR2 made a poor job of handling the files, to the point that I was beginning to think that there was a problem with the sensor or focusing last year. While LR3 is a definite improvement, I still don't think it is as good as it could be. Yesterday, as an example, in camera the images looked pin sharp, yet in LR, they looked soft and lacked some detail. As a standard workflow (which I suddenly thought of doing a preset for in LR3 a couple of nights ago, after 12 months of use :P), I set the sharpening for the 7D at around 40, instead of the standard 25 for Adobe RAW. Also though, I rarely go beyond ISO 1600, and if I really have to photograph in that low light, then I switch to the 5D MkII. It isn't often I need to go beyond ISO 1600 and if I can reduce the shutter speed by using a tripod, that is an option, as is a beanbag. I tend to avoid noise reduction (exept to a minimal level in ACR), as it damages the fine detail, which is very important for wildlife. I'd rather have a bit more noise, than not be able to see the feather or fur detail.
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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2012, 09:09:07 AM »
I use the 7D at ISO 6400 all the time, usually with a f1.4 lens. And plenty of those pictures are great! However, concerning the sensor, I cannot fathom why people expect a 7D mk II with a 1DX sensor. Moreover, why they would expect that camera to be anywhere near 7D pricing...
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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 11:08:01 AM »
I have a 7d, and its a good camera, it should last for years wiith my low rate of use. 

Just based on my observation of the pricing as it has dropped over the 2+ years, I'd say that we will see a upgrade this year.  I would not expect anything major, mostly things like digic V, more video features, perhaps a tweaked sensor, certainly no more MP, and, of course, a higher price.

A lot depends on the timing of the Nikon D400 (If there is one).  The 7D was announced one month after the D300S, and its lower price and excellent feature set cost Nikon a lot of sales.  They may be carefully thinking about going up against a lower cost 7D MK II, many people go for the lower price as long as they perceive the quality to be similar.  Its the same with the D60 / D7000, Canons lower price has resulted in a lot of sales.

Nikon stopped selling the D300S in Japan in November, the batteries do not meet consumer safety laws passed in 2008, and the 3 year grace period expired in November.  As far as I know, Canon's current cameras all have batteries that meet safety laws in Japan.

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 01:03:25 PM »
Quote
How much life does the 7D have left in it?

If it is taking good pictures today, why won't it be taking good pictures next year or the year after, etc. etc.? I had my F-1 for about 35 years. Today we are programmed to think that we have to have the newest models. I'm as bad as anyone about that, but the honest truth is any digital SLR today is going to be just fine until it dies. A new model with new bells and whistles isn't going to suddenly mean your old one stops working. It might make you want the new model (it probably will make me want it) but that's what marketing is all about.

Quote
So...is it really all that likely that a 7D II will hit the streets within the next year?

If the 5DIII is announced in the next several months, I think you'll see a 7D II sometime around the Photokina show in September. I don't think Canon would want to go to that show without a new camera to brag about. But that's just my opinion.
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aeturnum

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 01:11:25 PM »
As others have said, if a new 7D will be announced this year, photokina (in September) is the most likely place to announce it. However, because the 7D is the first camera in its line, we don't really know what kind of update schedule canon is going to follow. Anything is possible.

jrista

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Re: Realistic projections on when a 7D II might hit the scene?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 06:35:24 PM »
The 7D does rock, except for the IQ at high ISO, so I ended up getting rid of mine  :-*

I would like to think a 7DmkII would address this issue, but if it had a 1DX type sensor and much better IQ it'd probably eat into 1DX sales, so perhaps not a huge increase. Hope I am wrong though...

I doubt a 7D II with a better sensor would eat into 1D X sales...the two cameras are several degrees removed from each other. Now, if they stuck a much better AF system or higher FPS in the 7D, that might eat a little into 1D X sales...everyone really seems to want top-notch AF on every body they have. The thing about Canon that I see is if they keep releasing cameras that do NOT have competitive improvements in ISO, they are going to really start falling behind their competitors. Sony has made some huge strides recently in readout noise levels...Canon's starts as high as 25 e- or more and bottom out at about 3-4 e-, where as most of the new sony sensors are consistent at about 3.0 e- for any ISO level. Its obviously possible to greatly improve read noise levels, and I can't see Canon not competing on that front in all their cameras.

I use the 7D at ISO 6400 all the time, usually with a f1.4 lens. And plenty of those pictures are great! However, concerning the sensor, I cannot fathom why people expect a 7D mk II with a 1DX sensor. Moreover, why they would expect that camera to be anywhere near 7D pricing...

You may just be getting more light down the lens, which would improve exposure. My problem is that I have low available light to start with, as most of the wildlife worth shooting, including raptors, tend to forage and hunt right around sunset. As such, I have to use really high ISO settings with limited light, which is pretty rough on the noise front...I can't get more light down the lens to offset the noise, so I'm stuck with pretty noisy pictures with limited detail in fur and feathers. My complaint isn't so much about the 7D, its that I bought the 7D expecting it to be a while before a replacement with better ISO came along. I really want better noise levels at ISO 3200/6400...usable ISO with low enough noise that in low available light, it does not eat away detail. I am just curious to know how long it might realistically be before Canon releases a 7D II that might solve that problem...did make a good decision getting the 7D now, or are my wishes of better high ISO noise performance going to be met a lot sooner than I expected?

If it is taking good pictures today, why won't it be taking good pictures next year or the year after, etc. etc.? I had my F-1 for about 35 years. Today we are programmed to think that we have to have the newest models. I'm as bad as anyone about that, but the honest truth is any digital SLR today is going to be just fine until it dies. A new model with new bells and whistles isn't going to suddenly mean your old one stops working. It might make you want the new model (it probably will make me want it) but that's what marketing is all about.

Its a great camera, however for my usage of it, the vast majority of my photos are not quite up to my expectations. Again, not really a complaint about the 7D...just a complaint about Canon's noise levels in general, and if Canon propagates their new low-noise sensor design from the 1D X throughout their line of cameras... See the above explanation of available light and times of day I shoot for more detail. Canon can market anything they want...the only thing I care about and actually need is lower noise at ISO 3200 and above...and USABLE ISO 3200 in limited available light. I absolutely love all the rest of the 7D features, and am not really sure how much more they could be improved. I also have no complaints about low ISO noise...seems to tweak a lot of people the wrong way, but low ISO noise, while it may be a smidge worse than my 450D at ISO 100-400, its also only visible when pixel-peeping, and its also 47% more pixel dense than the 450D, so that slightly higher noise just gets absorbed in any real-world viewing scenario anyway.

If the 5DIII is announced in the next several months, I think you'll see a 7D II sometime around the Photokina show in September. I don't think Canon would want to go to that show without a new camera to brag about. But that's just my opinion.

Good point...I wouldn't expect them to hit Photokina without anything fancy to show either.
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