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Author Topic: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]  (Read 51234 times)

briansquibb

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2012, 12:01:57 PM »
jumping in wayyyy at the end of this thread

no, i haven't read all nine pages!lol

but... referring to the new pics out of africa (aperture academy - possible new 5d3) - seems to me there are TWO cameras in those pictures

this one (same basic layout as 5d2/7D) and this one (totally new arrangement)

has there been any speculation on what the second camera is??

I thought it was established that one is the 1D X and the other is the possible new 5D

Second one is a series 1 layout - so most likely a 1DX

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2012, 12:01:57 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: January 29, 2012, 01:39:00 PM »
jumping in wayyyy at the end of this thread

no, i haven't read all nine pages!lol

but... referring to the new pics out of africa (aperture academy - possible new 5d3) - seems to me there are TWO cameras in those pictures

this one (same basic layout as 5d2/7D) and this one (totally new arrangement)

has there been any speculation on what the second camera is??

Wow well spotted mate. I didnt even notce the straps are different.

Well done!
 
+1

Well done, indeed.  You two are about the 56th and 57th, respectively, to post about 'discovering' this on CR alone.
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SDsc0rch

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: January 29, 2012, 03:27:04 PM »
hahahaha! yep!

now that i've read around (this isn't the only thread on this topic) i've seen other ppl have also made that observation

i registered to this site just to post that!lol

i just got a 7D and i'm really liking it - and with the 5d3 release possibly around the corner.. its just kindof an exciting time :)

good looking camera, whatever this thing is - maybe "someday" i'll be able to afford it!!

Canon-F1

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: January 29, 2012, 03:33:27 PM »
Well done, indeed.  You two are about the 56th and 57th, respectively, to post about 'discovering' this on CR alone.

there are more intelligent people out there then you would think.....   ;)

well_dunno

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2012, 04:43:24 PM »
22MP is really horrifying news. I will not buy that. Compared to my mk2 I need higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and higher resolution. I think 48 MP would have been a good choice. Perhaps I will have to consider to switch to D800 if it is really 36MP.
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

The specification also doesn't make sense. I don't see the market segment between 1DX and 7D. What we need is high resolution, high dynamic range, high ISO performance and no banding. Of couse also improved AF compared to mk2. High speed isn't important since that area is covered by 1DX and 7D. Anyway with 48MP (or 36MP) there would have been possible to make a crop mode with higher speed.

I believe better DR and ISO performance are preferred by many considering higher resolution generally deteriorates ISO performance (keeping the sensor size the same with higher resolution causing higher noise). Basicly "if we can have two, those should be the two" kind of statement IMO. Especially if bigger prints are not needed... Thus I do not see anything stupid about that...

Cheers!

waving_odd

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: January 29, 2012, 05:05:42 PM »
22MP is really horrifying news. I will not buy that. Compared to my mk2 I need higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and higher resolution. I think 48 MP would have been a good choice. Perhaps I will have to consider to switch to D800 if it is really 36MP.
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

The specification also doesn't make sense. I don't see the market segment between 1DX and 7D. What we need is high resolution, high dynamic range, high ISO performance and no banding. Of couse also improved AF compared to mk2. High speed isn't important since that area is covered by 1DX and 7D. Anyway with 48MP (or 36MP) there would have been possible to make a crop mode with higher speed.

I believe better DR and ISO performance are preferred by many considering higher resolution generally deteriorates ISO performance (keeping the sensor size the same with higher resolution causing higher noise). Basicly "if we can have two, those should be the two" kind of statement IMO. Especially if bigger prints are not needed... Thus I do not see anything stupid about that...

Cheers!

Well-Dunno, it is well-said!   ;)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 05:07:25 PM by waving_odd »

Axilrod

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2012, 05:20:02 PM »
22MP is really horrifying news. I will not buy that. Compared to my mk2 I need higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and higher resolution. I think 48 MP would have been a good choice. Perhaps I will have to consider to switch to D800 if it is really 36MP.
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

The specification also doesn't make sense. I don't see the market segment between 1DX and 7D. What we need is high resolution, high dynamic range, high ISO performance and no banding. Of couse also improved AF compared to mk2. High speed isn't important since that area is covered by 1DX and 7D. Anyway with 48MP (or 36MP) there would have been possible to make a crop mode with higher speed.

So how horrified were you when the 1DX was only 18MP?
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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2012, 05:20:02 PM »

waving_odd

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: January 29, 2012, 05:38:48 PM »
I talking about a 22MP sensor vs a 48MP with the same dynamic range and high ISO performance

Do you mind reminding us which production or rumored FF model(s) that has/have both 22+ in MP resolution and high ISO performance?

Nikon D3x?  Its ISO 1600??

Nikon D800 and its rumored ISO 6400??

Kernuak

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2012, 05:43:10 PM »
22MP is really horrifying news. I will not buy that. Compared to my mk2 I need higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and higher resolution. I think 48 MP would have been a good choice. Perhaps I will have to consider to switch to D800 if it is really 36MP.
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

The specification also doesn't make sense. I don't see the market segment between 1DX and 7D. What we need is high resolution, high dynamic range, high ISO performance and no banding. Of couse also improved AF compared to mk2. High speed isn't important since that area is covered by 1DX and 7D. Anyway with 48MP (or 36MP) there would have been possible to make a crop mode with higher speed.

So how horrified were you when the 1DX was only 18MP?

Very! But would not have bought it anyway because of cost.
Increased resolution results in increased noise. While technology has resulted in improvements with each sensor generation, there are limits. Most people are looking at full frame sensors for cleaner and sharper images. Another disadvantage of 48MP, would be the high pixel density (higher than the 7D). Higher pixel densities result in greater diffraction limitations, due to the effect of Airy Disks, which cause interference with small pixels, resulting in increased affects by diffraction, which softens the image at smaller apertures. Landscape photographers in particular use smaller apertures, so the diffraction limit starts affecting overall image quality, thus negating one of the important reasons for them going with a full frame sensor. Even medium format cameras, with their larger sensors are only around 40MP, so 46MP in a DSLR would be pusing the boundaries.
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wickidwombat

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: January 29, 2012, 06:03:03 PM »
22MP is really horrifying news. I will not buy that. Compared to my mk2 I need higher dynamic range, better high ISO performance and higher resolution. I think 48 MP would have been a good choice. Perhaps I will have to consider to switch to D800 if it is really 36MP.
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

The specification also doesn't make sense. I don't see the market segment between 1DX and 7D. What we need is high resolution, high dynamic range, high ISO performance and no banding. Of couse also improved AF compared to mk2. High speed isn't important since that area is covered by 1DX and 7D. Anyway with 48MP (or 36MP) there would have been possible to make a crop mode with higher speed.
DITTO! and perhaps they can make a new 5-500mm f2 Lens as a kit all for $2000 :P
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Wrathwilde

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #145 on: January 29, 2012, 06:34:21 PM »
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

Donny you're out of your element!

Unless there is some tremendous new breakthrough that negates the laws of physics... you only get to pick two. 

If you want amazing DR and ISO performance then you have to sacrifice Resolution. 

If you want high ISO and Resolution then your DR is really going to suffer. 

If you want DR and Resolution then you're going to have to take a hit on ISO. 

Sure we would like all three, but until we can negate the laws of physics in regards to CMOS sensors, you only get to pick two priorities, or a compromising balance of all three, and that's exactly what the 1D X supposedly is, the sweet spot between all three.

I suggest you read up on how CMOS sensors actually work, there are actually physical limits to the photon collecting ability. But the gist is... the smaller the pixel, the less light it will take in, and consequently a lower ISO.

Sensor Technology - http://dpbestflow.org/camera/sensor 

Fundamentals of Image Sensor Technology - http://www.cse.wustl.edu/~jain/cse567-11/ftp/imgsens/index.html


See for yourself that higher resolution can cause diffraction that actually lessens the image quality...
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 07:12:47 PM by Wrathwilde »

bigblue1ca

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #146 on: January 29, 2012, 06:53:23 PM »

You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.


Wow, talk about how not to make friends and influence people.

Kahuna

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: January 29, 2012, 08:16:42 PM »
I have no understanding what so ever for those who wants better dynamics and ISO performance but not higher resolution when it's clearly better with the better dynamics, ISO performance AND higher resolution. You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.

...but until we can negate the laws of physics in regards to CMOS sensors...

+1 Thank you Wrathwilde

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: January 29, 2012, 08:16:42 PM »

BDD

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #148 on: January 29, 2012, 11:02:51 PM »

You must be stupid if you want 2 of 3 improvements instead of all 3.


Wow, talk about how not to make friends and influence people.

OUCH!! Not cool thing to say to any one.

For me I want "high ISO + DR". I would be happy if the MP on the 5D3 is still 21MP. I thought the same way about the D3s when it was first introduced. It only has 12MP but does everything else I want (no I didn't buy it). Now we have the D4 and the 1D-X. 2 great sports/photo-journalism shooters. Which comes out ahead in practice...we'll have to wait and see.

I was so hoping the D800 wouldn't be high MP "focused" but it is. Sacrificing low-light shoot-ability. Plus it's priced too high for both versions IMHO. So my money is on the 5D3...just hoping it borrows the native ISO range of the 1D-X offering 100-51,200 (or a max of 204,xxx). If not...then D3s vs. D4 vs. 1D-X.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: January 30, 2012, 02:15:39 AM »

Donny you're out of your element!

Unless there is some tremendous new breakthrough that negates the laws of physics... you only get to pick two. 

If you want amazing DR and ISO performance then you have to sacrifice Resolution. 

If you want high ISO and Resolution then your DR is really going to suffer. 

No, no it does not have to.
The 7D actually has BETTER DR per area of sensor than the 5D2 by a little bit....
Some P&S shoot have had better SNR per sensor area than some of the DSLR.

To fix up low ISO DR Canon needs to fix their read noise, less random read noise and a lot less banding noise.

High iso middle gray SNR might get a touch worse with a higher MP sensor than a lower one but with the sorts of difference we talk about here in terms of MP I doubt that it would cost more than 1/3 stop.


Quote
See for yourself that higher resolution can cause diffraction that actually lessens the image quality...

That's a terribly misleading demonstration of diffraction, that just shows that the point where you can't maximize what you can best get out of the sensor hits earlier but it implies that you actually do worse in the general sense of a normalized comparison even though you do not do worse from diffraction with the higher MP camera. Shoot the same scene with the same lens at the same f-stop and you never pull in worse detail with the higher MP sensor be it f/1.4 or f/64. It may be that you don't pull in any extra detail once you are at f/64 but you won't do worse and you will pull more detail at lower f-stops and dont; forget that the limit is not a hard limit you slowly gain less and less EXTRA detail the higher you raise the f-stop.

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Re: *UPDATE* 5D Mark III - February 7, 2012 [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: January 30, 2012, 02:15:39 AM »