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Author Topic: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?  (Read 12731 times)

Meh

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 09:51:25 AM »
Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above:  Real photographers don't use Live View AF

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2012, 09:51:25 AM »

JerryBruck

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2012, 11:29:35 AM »
@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out.  Canon has recessed it into the camera's back, surrounded by a slightly raised, rounded frame.  There's no way I can think of, that it can be accidentally dislodged from this position, even rolling round loose in a sack: only a somewhat forceful action of fingertip/nail can pry it open.  To this extent it doesn't resemble the clam-shell design of many small camcorders.  In appearance it's very little different from Canon's fixed-screen models.  It is more vulnerable once swung out, obviously and of course.  One must take care.  The hinge seems to be very solid.

@WFT: Those vari-shooters are only blocking your view because the fixed-screeners in front of them don't dare stop and sit down, shooting blind as they are.

sb

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »
Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above:  Real photographers don't use Live View AF

Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above:  Real photographers don't use Live View AF

Yup - basically buyers of pro bodies don't want to see consumer features in it - as simple as that. The advocates don't quite understand because it seems like "it doesn't hurt to have it there", however for me, it's kind of like getting a race car and realizing that it comes with "parking assist", "backup cam", "facebook connectivity" and automatic transmission :-)


dstppy

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2012, 12:21:03 PM »
I'll throw in my greatly-overpriced two cents:
I prefer the articulating screen at this point because there are no greasy nose-prints on my screen from shooting  ;)  I'm a guy, I'm not supposed to have to exfoliate . . . apply soap, scrub, rinse I'm done. 

I'm going with +1 on pretension for a lot of it.  I consider it a boon to be able to protect the screen and leave on auto-preview without having to use it . . . to that ends, I miss the non-automatic pop-up flash of my SX10 IS.  Mechanical way of togging a feature on/off.

While you're bringing that up, you might as well talk about how 'flimsy' the 60D is too  ;D  Yeah, that plastic body was really bugging me . . . now that I've got a 5DmkII, I don't have to worry about being attacked and not being able to club someone  ???
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7enderbender

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2012, 12:44:41 PM »
@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out.  Canon has recessed it into the camera's back, surrounded by a slightly raised, rounded frame.  There's no way I can think of, that it can be accidentally dislodged from this position, even rolling round loose in a sack: only a somewhat forceful action of fingertip/nail can pry it open.  To this extent it doesn't resemble the clam-shell design of many small camcorders.  In appearance it's very little different from Canon's fixed-screen models.  It is more vulnerable once swung out, obviously and of course.  One must take care.  The hinge seems to be very solid.

@WFT: Those vari-shooters are only blocking your view because the fixed-screeners in front of them don't dare stop and sit down, shooting blind as they are.



Admittedly, this is a good argument. But forgive me, as a traditionalist (which I am on a lot of things, not all) I don't really want to put up with a feature just because it can be done and because it may be useful to a minority. Is a fixed screen the be-all-end-all? No, of course not. But it's another thing that takes away from the experience of owning a rock-solid camera which to me is part of the fun and justification of shelling out thousands of dollars for camera gear (or similar items). Neither makes me a better photographer (cyclist, guitar player, golfer, skier, you name it...). But to me there is something to be said about solid workman ship that makes the experience of going out and shooting half-way decent photographs more enjoyable. A BMW, Audi or Lexus doesn't make me a better driver or even gets me any faster to work than a Corolla (or the Commuter Rail...) - but hell, I do like stick shifts and good acceleration when I drive.

But even in that somewhat lame comparison I could now (the traditionalist that I am) complain that the Germans and Japanese in the last few decades started to put way too much useless stuff into their vehicles. So even with money to burn I'd probably still take the train and rental cars for the necessary stuff and otherwise have a nice classic sports car in the garage.

So in as much as I "get" the fully utilitarian approach with turning everything into the equivalent of a Swiss Army knife (I do like Swiss Army knives though) I'm missing the emotional component. That's why people like me whine when they realize that their $1000+ new lens is made from plastic and is build in way that makes it unlikely that my kids will enjoy them later on like I still use some of my dad's old lenses. And it's a bit like the difference between a nice mechanical watch and a Chinese quartz movement. The latter will be more precise.

Maybe I'm interpreting too much into a silly old screen here but it's another one of those obvious changes that significantly change the experience independent of results.
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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2012, 01:22:46 PM »
Anyone who says you can't be a real photographer AND use a swivel screen (at all) is just being a luddite as far as I can tell (even if you're not being entirely serious  :) ).  And if you're making the argument that a swivel screen is more prone to break then just don't use it.  Keep it in one position against the body and don't worry about swiveling.

Here's the thing--I own a 60D for photography and video, but I (almost) never use the swivel screen.  Honestly, fragility of the screen was a concern when I decided to buy the 60D, but it just seems to be a non-issue.

Though I usually don't use it, there have been times when the swivel screen has been a huge help.  I'll find myself down on the dirt getting a low angle shot (out of habit) when suddenly I realize I don't have to be.  Sure, live view is horrible for most photography situations but it works fine for some things (and video, of course).

Is a top-of-the-line camera a place for a swivel screen?  I don't know--there is definitely a stigma that's hard to shake--even though I've found mine useful in the past.  But at the very least don't knock it till you try it in real shooting situations, and don't look down on people who find it useful.

Orangutan

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(OT Protecting the screen) Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 01:24:34 PM »
Since we're on the topic of the 60D flip-screen, has anyone used "InvisibleShield" on their flip screen?  Does it interfere with turning the screen face-in?  I've been thinking of doing this on mine.

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(OT Protecting the screen) Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2012, 01:24:34 PM »

Canon-F1

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2012, 01:38:58 PM »
@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out.

dosnĀ“t change a thing that i have 4 cameras with a flip screen that are defect because of the LCD.
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Meh

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2012, 01:51:31 PM »
Anyone who says you can't be a real photographer AND use a swivel screen (at all) is just being a luddite as far as I can tell (even if you're not being entirely serious  :) ).  And if you're making the argument that a swivel screen is more prone to break then just don't use it.  Keep it in one position against the body and don't worry about swiveling.

Of course you can't be a real photographer and use a swivel screen and I'm being entirely serious  :P just ask @briansquibb who noted that Live View AF is useless (it isn't useless by the way).  Oh and you when you said...

Sure, live view is horrible for most photography situations but it works fine for some things (and video, of course).

What do you mean by "horrible" and what do you mean by "most"?  That's the trouble with making such bold statements, they just tend to not really be the case.  Did you just look down on those who find it useful and use it for a lot of photography situations?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2012, 02:05:08 PM »
...basically buyers of pro bodies don't want to see consumer features in it - as simple as that. ... it's kind of like getting a race car and realizing that it comes with ... "facebook connectivity"

So THAT'S why they put a GigE port on the 1D X - faster Facebook uploads.  I knew there had to be a good reason...
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lbloom

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2012, 02:36:55 PM »
I just sold my 60D and got a 5DII late last year and I really miss the articulating screen. It could lay flat facing out or lay flat facing in and be protected while in transport. It was much cleaner, clear, and it I didn't have to stand in front of a mirror to take a self portrait!  :P

I found it most useful for candid shots. People would think I was looking down at my phone (because of course a camera has to be at your eye for you to be taking shots), and I would go unnoticed until the 60D shutter roared...

Now that I have the 5DII, I feel limited in that aspect compared to the options I had with the articulating display. They should incorporate it into pro bodies since it is a very useful feature.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 02:38:48 PM by lbloom »

Harley

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2012, 03:07:28 PM »
@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out.  Canon has recessed it into the camera's back, surrounded by a slightly raised, rounded frame.  There's no way I can think of, that it can be accidentally dislodged from this position, even rolling round loose in a sack: only a somewhat forceful action of fingertip/nail can pry it open.  To this extent it doesn't resemble the clam-shell design of many small camcorders.  In appearance it's very little different from Canon's fixed-screen models.  It is more vulnerable once swung out, obviously and of course.  One must take care.  The hinge seems to be very solid.

Yeah, I'm perfectly aware how it works and that it can remain flush.  I'm not a traditionalist, I just actually want a fixed screen on my camera.  Simplicity is important.  For me personally, an articulated screen is going the wrong direction and I'm not going to buy a dSLR with one. 
No animosity towards anyone who finds them useful.  No judgment about who is a real photographer and who isn't -- your photos should indicate that well enough and there are certainly plenty of you here who can outshoot me any day of the week regardless of your hardware.  Courses for horses, as they say.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 03:09:27 PM by Harley »
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thepancakeman

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »
Simplicity is important.  For me personally, an articulated screen is going the wrong direction and I'm not going to buy a dSLR with one. 

So you would prefer no LCD?  It would be simpler...   ???

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »

keithfullermusic

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2012, 03:35:35 PM »
If there was one that was as sturdy and no more bulky than a built in screen I think it would be amazing.  Still, you will have people here who are against them for no other reason that they think they are only for "consumers."
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7enderbender

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2012, 03:40:26 PM »
Simplicity is important.  For me personally, an articulated screen is going the wrong direction and I'm not going to buy a dSLR with one. 

So you would prefer no LCD?  It would be simpler...   ???

Perhaps even that. Any time I'm now using my film camera I find myself staring at the back of the body. Kind of makes you realize how much of a habit this has become - and how often this is really just a major distraction. The time "reviewing" the shot and histograms after the shot might be better spend thinking before the shot. It's very tempting to just snap away because of the instant result. Not to speak of the insane number of actuations that digital cameras allow for without penalty (other than early demise of the camera and the stacks of hard drives accumulating).

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Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2012, 03:40:26 PM »