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Author Topic: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications  (Read 86558 times)

ritholtz

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #225 on: September 09, 2016, 06:21:41 PM »
good 1080P coming from the 80D?

If the 108p coming from an 80D is your benchmark for good 1080P then it's little wonder you don't appreciate 4K

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/03/short-note-canon-80d-has-no-improvement-in-video-quality/

That blog post was always just knee-jerk hyperbole and clickbaiting.

Quote from: Andrew Reid
In what appears to be a running joke in Canon’s non-Cinema EOS series of cameras now, their latest stills camera (on paper so promising for video with the latest generation Dual Pixel AF and a completely new sensor) produces a dismal performance and is far behind even some 5 year old cameras from 2011.

The Canon 80D’s video performance is so bad I won’t even be reviewing it. The clips I shot with it aren’t even worth uploading.

Quote from: the very same Andrew Reid
Now to image quality. The 1080p of course could be better, this is Canon after all. But the skintones, colour science, codec, rolling shutter performance and low light are all very nice indeed - much better than most of the 4K cameras out there in fact and much better than Sony. The image upscales well to 4K on my LG DCI 4096 x 2160 display.

In fact overall detail appears much higher than any Canon DSLR before it, way better than the 60D and 70D. It looks like the GH2 on many shots especially those at closer focus distances. Check out the 1080p frame grab below. It is much better than when I first tried the camera, maybe Canon did a tweak.

The 60p seems as highly detailed as the 24p. Just a shame about the aliasing and the moire can still rear up and bite you, but overall the image is very satisfying when the conditions are right to use it. And if it means getting the shot vs not, then this justifies the 80D's existence.

Now a surprise


The 3x crop mode with 1:1 sensor output (full pixel output of a cropped region) delivers absolutely superb image quality with no moire or aliasing.

 ::)

(To be clear, I highly approve of people who can publicly admit to having had a change of heart. But had the initial reaction not been so knee-jerk, maybe that wouldn't have been necessary in the first place.)
It happened with xc10 also. Then he compared with Sony one and changed his mind completely. He claims, he purchases all his gear and doesn't accept free loaners which is not bad.

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/06/canon-xc10-versus-sony-rx10-iii-the-canon-is-underrated/
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 06:30:14 PM by ritholtz »
70D, 10-18mm, 17-50mm F2.8, 85mm F1.8, 55-250 STM.

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #225 on: September 09, 2016, 06:21:41 PM »

lw

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #226 on: September 09, 2016, 06:53:36 PM »
Well I agree with eoshd's original reaction. My 70D and the 80D I tried are disappointingly soft at 1080p.  My RX10 III, which eoshd's thought second best to the XC10, is so much better for 1080P video.
But the RX10 III AF is poor for action shots. great IQ though.

mustafa

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #227 on: September 09, 2016, 06:59:19 PM »
Do we know yet if the screen hinges high enough to face forward, for video blogging?

9VIII

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #228 on: September 09, 2016, 07:27:19 PM »
I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.

I bought a 128 GB SD for my 5D3 and (over time) grew to regret a few realities of it:

  • More sunk cost into that card than a smaller one, so its equally frail outer shell cracking/failing has a pricier impact when it goes. On that note, when my casing slightly cracked I opted for a questionable 'tape surgery' fix rather than replacing that card.  I am more likely to break that card outright than if I just pitched it (or 'retired it' to less demanding use than my SLR) and got another.

  • Applications that warehouse your shots (I still use ancient old iPhoto for a host of reasons I won't get into) will slow down considerably to audit a 128 GB card to look for and display thumbnails of what's new.  I can't really use iPhoto for the first 15-30 seconds of opening it because it's drowning in read work.

  • One massive card gets you in the habit of thinking you don't need to pack another card on a day of shooting (non-pro;  I defend my right to be an idiot like this :P).  If I was working with multiple 32 GB cards, I'd be better prepared if one died in the field, if one was left in the reader on the PC at home, etc.

One huge pro of a big card (provided you aren't a burst/wildlife/sports shooter):  you never think twice about 'shooting rich' with RAW + JPG all the time.  I generally 100% keep my JPGs but retain my best 3-5% shots in RAW for processing, print, etc.  That way I never lose the chance to save a great shot, but I'm also not burdened to maniacally keep all RAW files or burn the time necessary to process them all.  That's a win-win in my book for how I shoot.

- A

I've considered using memory cards as actual long term storage, but so far I still clear my cards after moving everything to the PC.
The likelihood of taking 64GB worth of pictures in one day is pretty slim until they come out with a 50MP DPRAW crop body.

9VIII

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #229 on: September 09, 2016, 07:40:41 PM »
Without that, this camera is useless to me. I'm not going on an expensive trip and depend on a single SD card to protect my images. I can't just get up and re-travel to different places around the world and recapture the moments and the sights.

Respectfully disagree.  All I shoot is a single SD on my 5D3 (burst/buffer/video is a low priority for me) and neither it nor any card I has ever let me down.  If it's an expensive / once-in-a-lifetime trip, just bring an external HD, iPad, laptop, etc, and backup what you shoot each day when you get back to the hotel. 

Also, is a dual card slot setup a reasonable ask for a (totally guessing) $899-999 camera?  In APS-C Mirrorless, Fuji had two slots but those X-Pro 2 and X-T2 rigs cost a great deal more.  The Sony a6300 takes two formats but in a single slot if I recall.

- A

to be honest .. people should be numbering their SD cards and rotating them.

just like SSD's .. there's wear leveling built into SD cards, however there is only a finite amount of times you can write to them (like SSD's) before they fail.

a good rotation strategy and more than 1 SD card in your inventory that you use can go a long way to preventing any issues.

Nikon's bluetooth connection actually makes a lot of sense here.
Rotating cards still doesn't save that "once in a lifetime" shot if the card it's on fails.
With a convenient wireless solution you can just tag any important pictures and have them backed up to your phone instantly (hopefully, if the software interface is bad then it's still useless).

I bought a few 64GB SD cards this summer. I will never fill one to capacity, but the larger capacity cards have better write speeds and wear better, so they'll probably last the rest of my life for my purposes.

you mean like the EOS-M5's automatic backup to smartphone?

- クラウドサービスやPC、スマートフォンに画像の自動バックアップが可能

-Allows automatic backup images of cloud services, PC, Smartphone

Yes, though Nikon seems to have communicated the functionality a little more clearly. Using a low power, always-on Bluetooth connection, as opposed to something where you might have to cycle wi-fi on and off every time you want to backup a picture. That adds a lot of steps to something that should be seamless.
Canon might have the same sort of idea, but Nikon seems to be specifically advertising something more along the lines of what I was thinking of.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 07:43:09 PM by 9VIII »

rrcphoto

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #230 on: September 09, 2016, 08:11:41 PM »

- クラウドサービスやPC、スマートフォンに画像の自動バックアップが可能

-Allows automatic backup images of cloud services, PC, Smartphone

Yes, though Nikon seems to have communicated the functionality a little more clearly. Using a low power, always-on Bluetooth connection, as opposed to something where you might have to cycle wi-fi on and off every time you want to backup a picture. That adds a lot of steps to something that should be seamless.
Canon might have the same sort of idea, but Nikon seems to be specifically advertising something more along the lines of what I was thinking of.

it's a one liner in a rumor .. just what would you expect it to say??

Woody

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #231 on: September 09, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »
If the 108p coming from an 80D is your benchmark for good 1080P then it's little wonder you don't appreciate 4K

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/03/short-note-canon-80d-has-no-improvement-in-video-quality/

You seem to enjoy bashing anything by Canon... but others will point out how unreliable your sources of info are.  ::)

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #231 on: September 09, 2016, 08:12:21 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #232 on: September 09, 2016, 08:52:41 PM »
looks as ugly to me as G5X. Don't need a EV +/- wheel on top. Would have greatly preferred Pop-up EVF in left top corner. Center hump makes it very bulky for my outdoor/mountaineering use.

Well, let's see, how good it is and how much it costs.  :)

Thumpa33

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #233 on: September 09, 2016, 10:27:33 PM »
I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update.  I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass

I hated the original M so much, I repacked it in the Amazon box less than 2 hrs after getting it, usless camera unless you shoot landscapes or other static objects... IMHO

Thumpa33

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #234 on: September 09, 2016, 10:31:47 PM »
I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update.  I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass


I hated the original M so much, I repacked it in the Amazon box less than 2 hrs after getting it, usless camera unless you shoot landscapes or other static objects... IMHO

privatebydesign

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #235 on: September 09, 2016, 10:36:30 PM »
I havent really used my original M much. The AF was too frustrating even after the firmware update.  I have the EF lens adapter so tossing the 50 and 85 on there is a snap and a darn good lens for cheap with this camera. I do wish we'd get more M prime glass


I hated the original M so much, I repacked it in the Amazon box less than 2 hrs after getting it, usless camera unless you shoot landscapes or other static objects... IMHO

And there in lies the issue most people had with the M, they never gave it a chance and never took time to optimize the settings. Out of the box the M sucked, I love mine and don't have any issues with the AF but then I took a bit of time to optimize it. And didn't listen to the online reviews that also didn't take the time to optimize it.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

9VIII

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #236 on: September 10, 2016, 12:43:52 AM »

- クラウドサービスやPC、スマートフォンに画像の自動バックアップが可能

-Allows automatic backup images of cloud services, PC, Smartphone

Yes, though Nikon seems to have communicated the functionality a little more clearly. Using a low power, always-on Bluetooth connection, as opposed to something where you might have to cycle wi-fi on and off every time you want to backup a picture. That adds a lot of steps to something that should be seamless.
Canon might have the same sort of idea, but Nikon seems to be specifically advertising something more along the lines of what I was thinking of.

it's a one liner in a rumor .. just what would you expect it to say??

I wasn't aware it wasn't an existing feature yet.
That being the case Nikon would definitely be ahead of the curve on that particular point.

lw

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #237 on: September 10, 2016, 03:37:01 AM »

You seem to enjoy bashing anything by Canon...

Not at all. There's no enjoyment in it.
As a almost life long Canon user since the first EOS 650 film DSLR, I am disappointed that their offerings don't always meet my expectation.  Particularly on the video front.

Perhaps you should read http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30754.msg622233#msg622233 or perhaps you could view my EOS M Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/lozwilkes/albums/72157634770186305 or other Canon specific albums first before making such comments.

Have you seen me on here bashing Canon's FF cameras, or lenses, or flash system - which I think are all great?
No, I have specifically bashed the M series because it failed to progress in line with the competition. And I have bashed the 80D because I thought it was such a disappointing improvement over my 70D. I was expecting more.

So, in the meantime, I will continue to "bash" Canon wherever I see fit if I think they are underperforming.  What a poor world it would be if the only thing allowed in forums was fanboyism, as unfortunately exhibited by some here...

« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 03:52:40 AM by lw »

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #237 on: September 10, 2016, 03:37:01 AM »

gpp

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #238 on: September 10, 2016, 03:46:33 AM »
Some people seem to be confused about the ''electronic stabilization''.

It's not for shooting stills. it's not IBIS. The sensor doesn't move.

It's an algorithm moves the video image (not sensor) to corrent for shake. So to get a place to move the image in, you need to use a smaller portion of the sensor, hence crop.

It's IS for video mode that crops the image a little.

Note** Canon history for this feature implementation shows pretty much just as good as IBIS performance for video. It's pretty amazing what they achieve with just electronic IS. with Optical IS lens + Electronic (mode 3 on M3) it's ridiculous. It really is a fantastic IS for video.

Note2** 1080p on the M3 is one of the best around. Better than A6000/6300, Fuji, Olympus, NX1, it's very detailed with very little aliasing/moire. I can see using this as a professional video rig. I always utilise shallow DOF for my audience. This love it. And the fight with that has always been stability (fast lenses have to IS, long lenses are jittery as hell) and Focusing.

For the first, I use a shoulder rig. A large and heavy piece of equipment and always cursing why canon don't just f+--ing give me a fast lens with IS like a 50mm/135mm IS, so that I could just handhold the camera and shoot FREELY focusing on focusing and framing.

With DPAF, it even takea focusing off the focus list. So I can just shoot with the camera using any lens and get stable in-focus video. What a life saver for weddings for example.

The IS will allow me to use my absolutely amazing Russian M42 glass that has zeiss optics for video, so far I cannot use the 135mm f/3.5 aside from select tripod shots (a shame because it looks amazing) and helios 58, anf of course the non IS Canon 50mm 1.8 STM and 135mm f2 (my two go-to-lenses). It breads live into these lenses while I've been restricted to a shoulder rig for all of them. If the performance is as good as the powershot electronic IS or M3 , I'll be ditching my rig and shooting handheld from now on. Liberating.

Sonys offered this for a little while (Is not Focusing) but I am a colour freak, and find that Canon's picture styles give unparalelled colour science compared to the anemic Sony colours so I never made the switch.
 
For films/docs dialed down Neutral gives Superb colours with very little tweaking to get an awesome image, and for weddings and people Portrait PS gives a skin tone rendition unlike anything else, just ALIVE. Try to get these from S-Log and your image will fall apart before reaching it simply because they are weak 8bit 4:2:0 h.264 images made for delivery. So getting internal good colour science is vital for video shooting.

My 150$ Eos M takes better colours than the 3000$ A7s. side by side, no comparison. (although the later is sharper and has IS)

You never owned 135mm f/2, EOS M... http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30531.msg619510#msg619510
Ebrahim (http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20260-how-i-got-scammed-through-one-of-this-sites-highest-rated-accounts/?do=findComment&comment=154344), please stop lying.

gordonbb

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #239 on: September 10, 2016, 03:59:08 AM »
Thank-you Canon.

This ticks all but one of my boxes and makes me glad I held on to the M I bought on the fire sale and the adapters and native m lenses and resisted the M2 and 3

I'm getting older and having a couple of bodies slung or attached to a harness for a few hours is getting painfull but then so was trying to use the m for event work even in bright light.

I want something smaller but I didn't want to lose my investment in L glass and spend the $10 to $15K moving to Fugi would entail.  Most of my shooting now is just for myself and the family.

I shoot about 10 minutes of video a year and 1080p is just fine by me.

As an ex broadcast engineer who sat in some of the original 422 SMTPE sessions I will say that 1080p even on Netflix with their aggressive compression looks pretty damned good to these old tired eyes on my 55" display heck I have content on my media server from 20 odd years ago shot on VHS and yes it would be better in 1080p but something about the best camera being the one in hand comes to mind. In our family most of the video is shot on the wife's iPhone and edited on her iPad Air and not on my Xeon workstation.

The one feature I want that seems to be missing is GPS.  What I still shoot are monuments at cemeteries and the 6D with a 17-40L is the cats meow for this.  But spend a day roasting in the sun crouching (perspective warp will only fix so much) shooting 1000+ memorials and these old bones hurt. Yes, I know you can use an external GPS and import into LR but that's just adding pain to the workflow.

WRT reliability of SD cards ... I learned the hard way that good CF cards were a sound investment and always have a collection of Lexar or SanDisk Pro cards on hand that I rotate through. I've carried this practice forward with newer bodies with SD cards and I've recently had my first card failure.  It was at the end of the day, the last card available and the light was going.  The dam card wouldn't work and it was Sunday and I was at a rural location an hour and 1/2 from the nearest city.  As luck would have it I remembered the local town had a big box drugstore that usually stocks mid range cards.

So thank-you Canon.  Waiting to pre order. I think some of the Serenar lenses I inherited from my dad will look nice on this body.
M, M6, 6D, 7D, 1Ds II, G10, IV-Sb, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 2.8 IS, 85/1.2 II, 50 1.8 II, 40, EF-M 15-45, 18-55, 22, 28...

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Re: More Canon EOS M5 Images & Specifications
« Reply #239 on: September 10, 2016, 03:59:08 AM »