April 28, 2017, 02:39:13 AM

Author Topic: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]  (Read 49962 times)

tron

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #210 on: March 03, 2017, 09:16:32 AM »
I wonder if 5DsRII will have 24 * 1.6^2 = 24 * 2.56 ~ 61.4 Mpixels.

I wish - but do not hope -  they left the mpixels to the current 50 so as to benefit even more (noisewise) from the sensor technology improvement.

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #210 on: March 03, 2017, 09:16:32 AM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #211 on: March 03, 2017, 05:46:34 PM »
I wonder if 5DsRII will have 24 * 1.6^2 = 24 * 2.56 ~ 61.4 Mpixels.

I wish - but do not hope -  they left the mpixels to the current 50 so as to benefit even more (noisewise) from the sensor technology improvement.

120MP. they already stated it really.
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Shooter

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #212 on: March 06, 2017, 12:00:12 AM »
If they allowed pre-orders now, I would do it in the blink of an eye. The original 5dsr is such a great camera, and the improvements I see in the 1dx2 would make it even better, closer to perfection.

I'm right there with you Jopa. I sold my two D810's after a couple week demo from Canon on the 5DS & SR, and bought two SR's. Shortly after that I upgraded my 1DX's to the series II model , thinking I'd shoot the SR's for architecture and the XII's for my faster aviation work. Turns out, because I love the file size and the cameras are so capable, I shoot 90% of my stuff with the 5DSR's. Having 144MB files to tweak will get one spoiled in a hurry.

Very impressive shot! Wondering where you have to be to take this one? :)

Dear JOPA,

I apologize  for the delay in my response to your question. I do a great deal of "air to air" photography assignments. My photo platforms vary, depending upon the subject aircraft, speed of the subject, budget and several other considerations. The image you asked about was taken from a Beechcraft A36 with the double side passenger doors removed. The A36 is a wonderfully capable photo platform and can fly at about 160 knots in the open configuration. Some of my subject aircraft are falling out of the sky at that speed so we go with aircraft like the WWII North American B25 Bomber which can fly at slightly faster speeds for limited duration, or military fighter jets where speed and performance is virtually unlimited.
JW

Shooter

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #213 on: March 06, 2017, 12:20:26 AM »
Just spent several days with The US Navy Blue Angels during their pre season practice sessions. Everything I shot was captured with the 5DSR's, and they performed beautifully ............
JW

Jopa

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #214 on: March 06, 2017, 11:25:44 PM »
If they allowed pre-orders now, I would do it in the blink of an eye. The original 5dsr is such a great camera, and the improvements I see in the 1dx2 would make it even better, closer to perfection.

I'm right there with you Jopa. I sold my two D810's after a couple week demo from Canon on the 5DS & SR, and bought two SR's. Shortly after that I upgraded my 1DX's to the series II model , thinking I'd shoot the SR's for architecture and the XII's for my faster aviation work. Turns out, because I love the file size and the cameras are so capable, I shoot 90% of my stuff with the 5DSR's. Having 144MB files to tweak will get one spoiled in a hurry.

Very impressive shot! Wondering where you have to be to take this one? :)

Dear JOPA,

I apologize  for the delay in my response to your question. I do a great deal of "air to air" photography assignments. My photo platforms vary, depending upon the subject aircraft, speed of the subject, budget and several other considerations. The image you asked about was taken from a Beechcraft A36 with the double side passenger doors removed. The A36 is a wonderfully capable photo platform and can fly at about 160 knots in the open configuration. Some of my subject aircraft are falling out of the sky at that speed so we go with aircraft like the WWII North American B25 Bomber which can fly at slightly faster speeds for limited duration, or military fighter jets where speed and performance is virtually unlimited.

Kudos to you sir. For a regular person like me it sounds very complicated, but very cool and breathtaking :) The result is amazing.

entoman

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #215 on: March 07, 2017, 08:27:29 AM »
I would expect:
New sensor improvements reflecting the latest generation;
Some increase (70-80 mp);
No anti-aliasing filter;
DPAF;
Possibly, but not definitely, 4K;
Touchscreen;
WiFi-GPS-NFC;
5 fps.

This does make me wonder what Canon has planned for the out years.

If they follow the pattern of using essentially the same sensor in the 5Ds and the 7D, a 72 mp 5Ds would mean a 28 mp 7DIII, which seems reasonable. A 5Ds at the end of 2017, could be followed by a 7DIII in the first quarter of 2018, but then what?

I suppose we could see a 90D and an SL2 in there somewhere, but then it could be a long, dry spell for Canon Rumors before a major new model.

I don't see the 7DMkiii having 28MP. Remember it will have to shoot at least 10fps, probably 12 or 14fps to compete as a sports camera. That needs a huge buffer and masses of expensive processor power. More likely the 7DMkii will have 24MP, which when upscaled to FF would be 60MP, and that is more than enough for anyone.

I also suspect that the 5DSMkii will be a single model. It will probably not have AA filter, but ideally it would have a cancellable AA filter for situations where moire is common (fashion, wedding, bird feathers etc).
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jeffa4444

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #216 on: March 08, 2017, 08:56:24 AM »
Don't be surprised if the Canon 5DS/ 5DSr MKII doesn't have a bump in MP but does have a bump in DR added to the revision in the 5D MKIV that it didn't get over the 5D MKIII.

Processing large files from the 5DS in raw really requires a good PC I upgraded to the new MacBook Pro fully maxed out with processor & memory as my previous MacBook Pro and my iMac in particular struggled in both Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC.

Unless photography gets more efficient compression codec then were storing trouble for ourselves.   
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #216 on: March 08, 2017, 08:56:24 AM »

Maiaibing

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #217 on: March 09, 2017, 05:16:47 AM »
Don't be surprised if the Canon 5DS/ 5DSr MKII doesn't have a bump in MP but does have a bump in DR added to the revision in the 5D MKIV that it didn't get over the 5D MKIII.

DR of 5DS/R is closer to 5DIV than 5DIII?

Cthulhu

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #218 on: March 12, 2017, 03:29:30 AM »
Don't be surprised if the Canon 5DS/ 5DSr MKII doesn't have a bump in MP but does have a bump in DR added to the revision in the 5D MKIV that it didn't get over the 5D MKIII.

DR of 5DS/R is closer to 5DIV than 5DIII?

5dsr has more dr than the 5dmk3, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had more than the 5dmk4

ahsanford

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #219 on: March 12, 2017, 03:04:55 PM »
Don't be surprised if the Canon 5DS/ 5DSr MKII doesn't have a bump in MP but does have a bump in DR added to the revision in the 5D MKIV that it didn't get over the 5D MKIII.

DR of 5DS/R is closer to 5DIV than 5DIII?

5dsr has more dr than the 5dmk3, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had more than the 5dmk4

DR values from DXO (someone please link me another site for this, I'm tired of referencing these knuckleheads):

70D (not on chip) = 11.6
7D2 (not on chip) = 11.8
80D (on chip) = 13.2

5D3 (not on chip) = 11.7
6D (not on chip) = 12.1
5DS (not on chip) = 12.4
5D4 (on chip) = 13.6

1DX (not on chip) = 11.8
1DX2 (on chip) = 13.5

So, yes, Canon will learn small ways to grind out more performance over time (see the 5D3 --> 6d --> 5DS improvements, all not on-chip), but the big bump came from moving to on-chip.

- A

Maiaibing

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #220 on: March 17, 2017, 03:50:34 PM »
Don't be surprised if the Canon 5DS/ 5DSr MKII doesn't have a bump in MP but does have a bump in DR added to the revision in the 5D MKIV that it didn't get over the 5D MKIII.

DR of 5DS/R is closer to 5DIV than 5DIII?

5dsr has more dr than the 5dmk3, so I wouldn't be surprised if it had more than the 5dmk4

DR values from DXO (someone please link me another site for this, (...)

So, yes, Canon will learn small ways to grind out more performance over time (see the 5D3 --> 6d --> 5DS improvements, all not on-chip), but the big bump came from moving to on-chip.

- A
This is a better measure of how large a DR the camera sensor can actually span: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

5DIII: 8.9
>= 0.32
6D: 9.22
> 0.57
5DSR: 9.79
>= 0.6
5DIV: 10.39

The jump from 6D to 5DSR to 5DIV is almost exactly the same. Meanwhile the 5DSR will begin to perform (slightly) better than the 5DIV >iso200. So on-chip may give something, but it does not seem that decisive for DR, more a way to control noise patterns.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 03:52:58 PM by Maiaibing »
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Cthulhu

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #221 on: March 19, 2017, 02:02:09 AM »
PBD -- excellent post, thanks.  Everything you said was spot on and I continue to learn from your experience.  Appreciated!

Now please consider someone who isn't you and lacks your sense of studio portraiture methodology, your commitment to detail, etc.

Like a wedding photographer with a 5DS who has to work a hurry.  Using speedlites only.  Who may will not crack out a tripod all day.   Who may want some ambient light in the shot.  Surely they would be in a bit of a pickle juggling higher shutter speeds for that high MP rig vs. their sync speed, right?

I am a rank amateur in this arena, I am not trying to pick an argument so much as understand.  Please set me straight!   :D

- A

Please remember that 1/fl is just a recommendation, not a law. I ignore all of this stuff with the 5dsr, and all of my cameras, and do just fine by focusing on keeping a steady hand.

Also remember that if 50mp is too much for your hand-holding concerns, film shooting will never be an option to you as it far exceeds those specs.

Just rent one or borrow one and try it out, you'll likely find it's not a big of a deal as the internet makes it to be.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #222 on: March 20, 2017, 05:03:58 PM »
Also remember that if 50mp is too much for your hand-holding concerns, film shooting will never be an option to you as it far exceeds those specs.

Oh no it doesn't. Film, by area, can't match any metric from a modern digital sensor.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=27421.msg542751#msg542751
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #222 on: March 20, 2017, 05:03:58 PM »

Sporgon

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #223 on: March 20, 2017, 05:24:04 PM »
Also remember that if 50mp is too much for your hand-holding concerns, film shooting will never be an option to you as it far exceeds those specs.

Oh no it doesn't. Film, by area, can't match any metric from a modern digital sensor.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=27421.msg542751#msg542751

I think he must be referring to hand-holding a 10-8 Private  ;)

Roo

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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #224 on: March 20, 2017, 09:00:41 PM »
If they allowed pre-orders now, I would do it in the blink of an eye. The original 5dsr is such a great camera, and the improvements I see in the 1dx2 would make it even better, closer to perfection.

I'm right there with you Jopa. I sold my two D810's after a couple week demo from Canon on the 5DS & SR, and bought two SR's. Shortly after that I upgraded my 1DX's to the series II model , thinking I'd shoot the SR's for architecture and the XII's for my faster aviation work. Turns out, because I love the file size and the cameras are so capable, I shoot 90% of my stuff with the 5DSR's. Having 144MB files to tweak will get one spoiled in a hurry.

Very impressive shot! Wondering where you have to be to take this one? :)

Dear JOPA,

I apologize  for the delay in my response to your question. I do a great deal of "air to air" photography assignments. My photo platforms vary, depending upon the subject aircraft, speed of the subject, budget and several other considerations. The image you asked about was taken from a Beechcraft A36 with the double side passenger doors removed. The A36 is a wonderfully capable photo platform and can fly at about 160 knots in the open configuration. Some of my subject aircraft are falling out of the sky at that speed so we go with aircraft like the WWII North American B25 Bomber which can fly at slightly faster speeds for limited duration, or military fighter jets where speed and performance is virtually unlimited.

That is a spectacular shot of Skip Stewart and Prometheus!  He always puts on a great show:)
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Re: Update to EOS 5DS & 5DS R Coming in 2017? [CR1]
« Reply #224 on: March 20, 2017, 09:00:41 PM »