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Author Topic: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X  (Read 13710 times)

dilbert

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"Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« on: February 01, 2012, 10:15:53 AM »
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Canon-PowerShot-G1X-Review

And on this page:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Canon-PowerShot-G1X-Review/Conclusion

You can see that the sensor in the G1X has similar performance to that of the 7D.

It whips the Nikon 1 series quite extensively and anything aside from the latest m4/3s cameras don't stand a chance.

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"Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« on: February 01, 2012, 10:15:53 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 10:37:38 AM »
You can see that the sensor in the G1X has similar performance to that of the 7D.

As DxOMark points out, that's both good and bad.

Good: getting the IQ of a dSLR in a much smaller form factor.

Bad: a newly-designed sensor for a 2012 camera, with the same 4.2µm pixel size as the 7D, performs essentially identically to the 7D, a sensor designed about 2.5 years before the G1X.

That means that either 1) Canon didn't try to improve the pixel characteristics of the sensor, 2) they tried to make it better and failed, or 3) they do have the ability to make it better, but chose not to include those enhancements in the G1X sensor.  I think #1 is pretty unlikely.  I hope it's not #2, because that bodes poorly for the next generation of APS-C sensors they release.  I'd be unsurprised by #3 - in fact, that's very logical if they're going to release a new APS-C sensor (7DII, 70D) soon and want to prempt comments like 'Canon's much cheaper point-and-shoot G1X offers the same IQ as this expensive new dSLR'.
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dilbert

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 10:43:58 AM »
You can see that the sensor in the G1X has similar performance to that of the 7D.

As DxOMark points out, that's both good and bad.

Good: getting the IQ of a dSLR in a much smaller form factor.

Bad: a newly-designed sensor for a 2012 camera, with the same 4.2µm pixel size as the 7D, performs essentially identically to the 7D, a sensor designed about 2.5 years before the G1X.

That means that either 1) Canon didn't try to improve the pixel characteristics of the sensor, 2) they tried to make it better and failed, or 3) they do have the ability to make it better, but chose not to include those enhancements in the G1X sensor.  I think #1 is pretty unlikely.  I hope it's not #2, because that bodes poorly for the next generation of APS-C sensors they release.  I'd be unsurprised by #3 - in fact, that's very logical if they're going to release a new APS-C sensor (7DII, 70D) soon and want to prempt comments like 'Canon's much cheaper point-and-shoot G1X offers the same IQ as this expensive new dSLR'.

Yes, I agree with (3) - they've recycled/reused sensor technology from the 7D into this smaller sensor/camera. I'd bet that they went with a known factor and the ability to recycle existing technology from higher up in their camera line. I would not be surprised if this was another "short lead time" camera and thus they've taken existing parts to design and build a new camera rather than come up with new bits.

aloper

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 10:59:13 AM »
Being on par with the 7D in a smaller form factor actually sounds good to me...

As much as I would like to pick up the G1X as a second camera or lighter travel camera, the slow lens doesn't do it for me but...

Say if you take the G1X, put a lens mount on it...boom, you have a Canon mirror less system! You can reuse the same sensor from the G1X. And with that sensor in production for half a year to a year, you can reduce the sensor cost over time from now till a G1X "mirror less" camera is introduced. And with the introduction of the G1X, you have in place a stop gap for now to bid time to build out lenses for a "mirror less" camera but you already have the basis ready to go in the form of the camera body if it's based off of the existing G1X...

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chito

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 12:04:44 PM »
It reminds me of that quote.. maybe it's from Community
"It's better than good, it's good enough"

If they were gonna do this they probably should have gone smaller sensor, bigger zoom range, smaller lens, similar performance as this.

dilbert

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 12:14:40 PM »
It reminds me of that quote.. maybe it's from Community
"It's better than good, it's good enough"

If they were gonna do this they probably should have gone smaller sensor, bigger zoom range, smaller lens, similar performance as this.

My bet is that if they went smaller then it wouldn't have enough megapixels to attract buyers.

unkbob

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 12:32:40 PM »
This camera is the definition of compromise. Too big for a compact, lens is too slow for portraits. The sensor is great for low light, but the lens is not. If I wanted a rebel with a kit lens, I'd buy one.

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 12:32:40 PM »

BigDaddyM

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 01:23:46 PM »
I wanted so bady to love this camera, but the lens is a let down. I have a Panasonic LX-3 which is much smaller and has a f2 lens and works great in low light. However, Canon's G-Series have almost always had slow lenses so this shouldn't be a big surprise but I was hopping for a big reboot of the series.

Don't get me wrong, a big sensor is a huge step in the right direction, and 7D quality should not be looked down upon. That is awesome.

I would have liked to be an all Canon person but reality prevents this. Sure I am all Canon on the high end, but mostly because I already have a huge investment in glass. If I had to start today with all new gear, it would definitly be a harder choice to go Canon.

Maybe the problem is that I study I short comings of my potiential Canon cameras and not the competition! The grass is always greener...
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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 01:36:47 PM »
I cancelled my pre-order for one a couple of days back, I will wait and try one out at the local best buy.  There are usually 10% off coupons available for Best buy, so my cost will be the same as mail order after taxes.

I'm looking at it as a replacement for my wife's G11.  She needs to be comfortable with carrying it around on her horse when she goes trail riding, etc.  The G11 works well for that, but even a bit larger might be a issue.

marius

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 01:48:33 PM »
I'm not impressed.
Only 10,8 DR? Nothing new from Canon, indeed.
If I want a smaller camera, I'll take the Sony Nex-7N or 5N. I know 7N has a bigger sensor as G1X, but not for much.
The Sony Nex-7N has a even better score than Canon 5D Mark II (fullframe sensor!)!!!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/769%7C0/(brand)/Canon/(appareil2)/736%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/483%7C0/(brand3)/Canon



kubelik

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 02:29:15 PM »
You can see that the sensor in the G1X has similar performance to that of the 7D.

As DxOMark points out, that's both good and bad.

Good: getting the IQ of a dSLR in a much smaller form factor.

Bad: a newly-designed sensor for a 2012 camera, with the same 4.2µm pixel size as the 7D, performs essentially identically to the 7D, a sensor designed about 2.5 years before the G1X.

That means that either 1) Canon didn't try to improve the pixel characteristics of the sensor, 2) they tried to make it better and failed, or 3) they do have the ability to make it better, but chose not to include those enhancements in the G1X sensor.  I think #1 is pretty unlikely.  I hope it's not #2, because that bodes poorly for the next generation of APS-C sensors they release.  I'd be unsurprised by #3 - in fact, that's very logical if they're going to release a new APS-C sensor (7DII, 70D) soon and want to prempt comments like 'Canon's much cheaper point-and-shoot G1X offers the same IQ as this expensive new dSLR'.

I'm personally more convinced that future releases will show it's more of #2.  each time Canon has stepped up to the plate to improve image quality in the last few years, they have had to do it through reducing the pixel count.  while some other manufacturers have improved their sensors slightly in terms of DR and noise, it's not significant enough (usually along the lines of 1/4 stop or 1/3 stop over the span of 3-4 years of development) for us to be expecting a huge jump in the performance of future APS-C sensors from Canon.  until some radical new material hits the market for use in sensors (like Black Silicon), I think we're at a plateau in mature sensor technology.  even technologies like back-illumination will contribute only a very small amount to the sensitivity of current sensors, and that's pretty much a one-trick pony.  what comes after back-illumination?

dilbert

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 02:45:27 PM »
I'm not impressed.
Only 10,8 DR? Nothing new from Canon, indeed.
If I want a smaller camera, I'll take the Sony Nex-7N or 5N. I know 7N has a bigger sensor as G1X, but not for much.
The Sony Nex-7N has a even better score than Canon 5D Mark II (fullframe sensor!)!!!

The NEX-7 requires bigger lenses so you cannot pocket the NEX-7 and lenses with the same zoom range like you can the G1X.

btw, there is no NEX-7N, it is the NEX-5N.

Appreciating the G1X requires understanding for what it IS and IS NOT.

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 02:57:23 PM »
I'm not impressed.
Only 10,8 DR? Nothing new from Canon, indeed.
If I want a smaller camera, I'll take the Sony Nex-7N or 5N. I know 7N has a bigger sensor as G1X, but not for much.
The Sony Nex-7N has a even better score than Canon 5D Mark II (fullframe sensor!)!!!
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/769%7C0/(brand)/Canon/(appareil2)/736%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/483%7C0/(brand3)/Canon

Wanting a smaller camera and choosing the NEX system is a bad move. Bad bad move.
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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 02:57:23 PM »

ugur

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 03:09:57 PM »
The fact that Sony Nex 7 has bigger lenses should not be an excuse for Canon to be trailing Sony so much behind when it comes to sensor technology. Yes the two cameras were built for different customer bases and for different purposes/requirements. But they are similar in price range and so the sensors should be comparable.

Why is Canon putting a sensor that is two years behind in the competition in an $800 point and shoot camera? Both Nex 7 and 5n are beating Canon with big margins when it comes to Sensor. The only answer I can think of is so that G1x would not lower the sales of its DSLR business. But if Canon worries too much about killing its Rebel business then somebody else will do it for them and instead of losing the Canon DSLR customers to again Canon new type cameras they will loose the customers to rivals. Kodak did the same mistake. They were too worried about developing digital cameras because they were scared that it would start killing its film business. So, somebody else came in and killed their film business for them and they ended up loosing their film customers to rivals. So, Canon should stop staying away from mirrorless or stop putting old sensors in non-dslr cameras just to keep their DSLR business lucrative. I am not suggesting that they should start pulling out of DSLRs. I'm just saying that they should stop putting old-tech in new type cameras just to keep on selling more DSLRs.

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 03:16:50 PM »
That means that either 1) Canon didn't try to improve the pixel characteristics of the sensor, 2) they tried to make it better and failed, or 3) they do have the ability to make it better, but chose not to include those enhancements in the G1X sensor.  I think #1 is pretty unlikely.  I hope it's not #2, because that bodes poorly for the next generation of APS-C sensors they release.  I'd be unsurprised by #3 - in fact, that's very logical if they're going to release a new APS-C sensor (7DII, 70D) soon and want to prempt comments like 'Canon's much cheaper point-and-shoot G1X offers the same IQ as this expensive new dSLR'.

I wonder if it's a manufacturing issue/strategy? I believe they said that the 1DX sensor used some new technology. If that required some new chip fabbing equipment it would make sense for them to use that new capacity only on their pro products. It could be that they are making the G1X's sensor along side the current APS-C sensors to save on cost and getter a better return on that existing fab investment.
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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 03:16:50 PM »