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Author Topic: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X  (Read 13341 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 03:26:29 PM »
I believe they said that the 1DX sensor used some new technology.

Canon states, "A new photodiode structure with an increased photoelectric conversion rate increases the sensor's sensitivity by approximately 2 stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera."  When you dissect that statement, it says they boosted the native ISO by two stops.  You could get that from the specs (1D IV is 100-12,800, 1D X is 100-51,200).  They don't say the noise is the same at an ISO that's two stops higher.  Elsewhere, they claim 2 stops better noise than the 1D IV, but Chuck Westfall admits that's mostly NR with in-camera JPG conversion - and that's compared to a smaller sensor.  The theoretical difference between 1.3x and FF is ~2/3-stop of ISO noise. 

What I'm personally interested in for the 'new sensor technology' whatever that is exactly, is how high-ISO RAW files from the 1D X compare to the 5DII.  If it's a stop better, I'll be quite pleased.

The implication is that assuming those improvements trickle down to the APS-C format, we'll see an improvement there, and likely in a G2X as well (trying to get back on topic here  :P ).
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 03:28:02 PM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 03:26:29 PM »

marius

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 03:28:10 PM »
Wanting a smaller camera and choosing the NEX system is a bad move. Bad bad move.

Why? Explain, please.

marius

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 03:34:18 PM »
The NEX-7 requires bigger lenses so you cannot pocket the NEX-7 and lenses with the same zoom range like you can the G1X.

Indeed. I said "smaler camera". Smaler than Canon DSLR.

bchernicoff

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 03:35:10 PM »
Canon states, "A new photodiode structure with an increased photoelectric conversion rate increases the sensor's sensitivity by approximately 2 stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera.

That's exactly the text I was thinking of. Thanks for looking it up. The point I was trying to make regarding the G1X performing similarly to the 7D was that if in order to improve beyond the 7D, a new physical photodiode structure is needed and that new structure requires a new chip manufacturing technique then it makes sense that they would reserve that manufacturing capability for the new pro sensors.

Based Canon's statement, it seems pretty clear that the 2 stop improvement is in the sensor: "increases the sensor's sensitivity"

UPDATE: I reread neuro's post and see that I missed his point about increased sensitivity in the sensor not necessarily corresponding to reduced noise for the same ISO.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 04:29:05 PM by bchernicoff »
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marius

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2012, 03:38:53 PM »
Canon states, "A new photodiode structure with an increased photoelectric conversion rate increases the sensor's sensitivity by approximately 2 stops over previous models, meaning higher ISOs with the lowest noise of any EOS digital camera.

That's exactly the text I was thinking of. Thanks for looking it up. The point I was trying to make regarding the G1X performing similarly to the 7D was that if in order to improve beyond the 7D, a new physical photodiode structure is needed and that new structure requires a new chip manufacturing technique then it makes sense that they would reserve that manufacturing capability for the new pro sensors.

Based Canon's statement, it seems pretty clear that the 2 stop improvement is in the sensor: "increases the sensor's sensitivity"

If so, I hope 5D Mark III will have the same technolgy. I am curious how DXO will score the 1DX.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 03:41:29 PM by marius »

EYEONE

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2012, 04:31:25 PM »
The NEX-7 requires bigger lenses so you cannot pocket the NEX-7 and lenses with the same zoom range like you can the G1X.

Indeed. I said "smaler camera". Smaler than Canon DSLR.

Yeah, ok, but you didn't say that. You just said "smaller camera" and then mentioned a camera that was bigger than the one we were talking about.
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CamaJan

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2012, 06:14:02 PM »
"Best compact camera"

That is great except for one thing... Its not compact.
Seriously wee need a new name for these bricks.

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2012, 06:14:02 PM »

WoodyWindy

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2012, 09:41:20 PM »
I absolutely would not have expected any better from this camera than the current APS-C generation. That is a known, stable sensor, that they can fab in very high volume.

Of course, I wouldn't have expacted any less, either. It hasn't lost any of its shine in the new form factor.

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Woody

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2012, 09:47:22 PM »
That means that either 1) Canon didn't try to improve the pixel characteristics of the sensor, 2) they tried to make it better and failed, or 3) they do have the ability to make it better, but chose not to include those enhancements in the G1X sensor.  I think #1 is pretty unlikely.  I hope it's not #2, because that bodes poorly for the next generation of APS-C sensors they release.  I'd be unsurprised by #3 - in fact, that's very logical if they're going to release a new APS-C sensor (7DII, 70D) soon and want to prempt comments like 'Canon's much cheaper point-and-shoot G1X offers the same IQ as this expensive new dSLR'.

I pray that you're right; they are saving the best for DSLRs...

I guess we'll know soon enough when the 1DX RAW files get released. The first question in mind is: how's the dynamic range at ISO 100.  :D
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 09:54:54 PM by Woody »

osakawayne

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2012, 12:55:48 PM »
holy misinformation batman!

My math is not wonderful, but with the size of that sensor in there, the lens is now an equivalent to a 1.2 aperture on a g12, and you guys are complaining it's a SLOW LENS? think a little here kids.

if low light is the issue, all tests have shown it blows any other compact out of the water.

if shallow DOF is what you want, 5.6 on the G1X will be the same DOF as 2.0 on a g12.

c'mon guys, use your BRAINS. You complain about people who only buy cameras for megapixel numbers, but judging fstop without accounting for sensor size is equally ignorant.

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2012, 01:12:14 PM »
if shallow DOF is what you want, 5.6 on the G1X will be the same DOF as 2.0 on a g12

What if I want a fast shutter speed?
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marinien

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2012, 03:48:01 PM »
if shallow DOF is what you want, 5.6 on the G1X will be the same DOF as 2.0 on a g12

What if I want a fast shutter speed?

Haha, very funny neuro! I don't want to quote your comparison between the 17-55 f/2.8 on crop sensor and the 24/105 f/4 on FF (again  ;D), but I'm sure you know what I'm taking about  ;). Btw, there's no f/2.8 sensitive sensor here, so the advantages are on the G1X's side, right?
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chito

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2012, 04:24:52 PM »
This is measured quantum efficiency of the green filtered pixels of the following sensors, it actually correlates pretty well with what we all perceive as the best performing cameras (D3s is the best in high iso).

http://www.sensorgen.info/

Since the G1X is actually a little worse than the 7D, and historically there has been a progression of higher and higher efficiency, to me it seems like it was intentionally crippled.

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2012, 04:24:52 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 06:24:35 PM »
if shallow DOF is what you want, 5.6 on the G1X will be the same DOF as 2.0 on a g12

What if I want a fast shutter speed?

Haha, very funny neuro! I don't want to quote your comparison between the 17-55 f/2.8 on crop sensor and the 24/105 f/4 on FF (again  ;D), but I'm sure you know what I'm taking about  ;). Btw, there's no f/2.8 sensitive sensor here, so the advantages are on the G1X's side, right?

+1.  You bump the ISO on the G1 X, the larger sensor means much less noise penalty.
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Re: "Best compact camera" - DxO review G1X
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 06:24:35 PM »