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Author Topic: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.  (Read 25506 times)

Besisika

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2016, 07:29:00 PM »
It seems clear that lay85 has a problem in his camera, and it has nothing to do with operator error.

I tested my 1DX Mark II rolling shutter at 23.976FPS against my 5D Mark III, based on Josh Denver's post that the sensor speed could be 30ms. I recorded whip pans with the two cameras mounted on the same tripod. The 1DX Mark II appeared to be noticeably faster than the 5D Mark III shooting at 24P, giving vertical lines less of an angle of skew. For me, this supports the measurements by Cinema5d.com that the 1DX Mark II has a speed of 14ms to the 5D Mark III's 18ms. Changing from 60p to 24p does not appear to change the sensor speed.

That actually contradicts with my findings. Mine is close to what lay85 has, unless you are saying that I have a faulty camera as well.
Let me be frank and be sorry if I don't trust much your opinion, with only 2 posts (really no offense intended) but I judge your opinion based on what I have. Unless you are Nero.
Please provide the link from cinema5d.com saying that 1DX II at 24p is 14ms. I must have missed it. My opinion, 14ms must be for the 60p. My camera says 24p 4K is worse than 5D III 1080P, which lay85's issue is.

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2016, 07:29:00 PM »

lic4

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2016, 07:48:17 PM »
No offense taken. I signed up recently after reading the post about the rolling shutter, because I had just invested in the camera and was alarmed by what I read on this board.

After the camera arrived today, I performed the tests with both cameras tethered together, shooting 4K 24p on the 1DX Mark II and 1080 24p on the 5d Mark III. I'll have to edit the footage together and grab the frames again, because I stupidly forgot to save the project after I saw the evidence.
In my camera, the 1DXii exhibited a little less skew to vertical lines than the 5D3.

Here is the link showing Cinema5D.com's word on the sensor speed:
https://www.cinema5d.com/canon-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-canon-1d-c-which-one-shoots-better-video/
(It's under the heading "rolling shutter")

And this link shows a chart with the measurement for the 5D Mark III:
https://www.cinema5d.com/rolling-shutter-sony-a7s-vs-arri-amira-canon-c300-5d-mark-iii-1dc-panasonic-gh4/

In the comments of this article, a DPReview administrator says that he sees the same sensor speed in 60P and 30P:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7057004492/don-t-get-ahead-of-yourself-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-rolling-shutter-test

It's difficult to test the cameras 60P vs 24P because I don't have something moving at a consistent speed to capture on my one camera, but I was satisfied with the comparison to the 5D Mark III. When I get some time, I'll run a comparison of the 1DX Mark II at 60P to the 5D and post those here as well.

Besisika

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2016, 08:45:42 PM »
Still, I can't find in any of these links anything saying that 4K 24P 1DX II is at 14ms. And that is what I am challenging, because my camera can't do that. 60P is a totally different matter.

The first week I got mine (4-5 months ago) I shot a rehearsal at 1080P because my concern was if I could get the singer in focus at 85mm 1.4 using the DPAF. I was very pleased with the result.
I bought bigger cards and a week later I shot the whole concert at 24p 4K and 3 hour of footage was useless. Luckily, my B camera was a 5D III at 1080P 24P and I used the footage from it.
I learned it the hard way.
Ever since I  shoot at 30P, from time to time at 60P in between shots, and if by mistake I rolled the dial too much and I am at 24p it takes 10sec and I will recognize it right away.
Just shoot someone's close up on the street and you will see it.
I assume that you know by heart the look of your 5D III, so judge it by yourself.

serenaur

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2016, 09:44:31 AM »
Please excuse my lack of experience in this but does a camera that has IS built in function similarly to having a steadicam type device?

Jack

No, it's more like shooting video with an IS lens on a body without in-body stabilisation.  I use a Sony A7SII which has IBIS with a Metabones adapter and my Canon glass for work and from my limited experience of hand held shooting (I shoot video for work almost exclusively on a tripod or slider), I've found it to basically be like adding IS to my non-IS lenses.  I also have a mechanical glidecam clone for personal use, though I have barely had a chance to use it since I got it as I have been so busy shooting for work.  The times I have managed to briefly get out with it have shown that IBIS and gimbal stabilisation are not even comparable. Steadicam/gimbal stuff is just that much better *as long as the operator is skilled,* which I am not!

Saying that, the recent leaps in combining IBIS and lens stabilisation seems to be yielding good results in certain situations.  I can't find it now (I just spent about 30 mins looking through my internet history for it!), but a fairly recent video I watched of what I believe was an Olympus E-M1 mkII matched with an Olympus stabilised lens showed impressive results for casual use.  If I'm able to find the video again I will update my post, though it may have been a different camera which might be why I can't find it.

@OP - sorry for the thread hijack!  I am weighing up a 1DXII purchase with some video use in mind so am watching related threads quite closely at the moment.
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Jack Douglas

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2016, 11:41:20 AM »
Please excuse my lack of experience in this but does a camera that has IS built in function similarly to having a steadicam type device?

Jack

No, it's more like shooting video with an IS lens on a body without in-body stabilisation.  I use a Sony A7SII which has IBIS with a Metabones adapter and my Canon glass for work and from my limited experience of hand held shooting (I shoot video for work almost exclusively on a tripod or slider), I've found it to basically be like adding IS to my non-IS lenses.  I also have a mechanical glidecam clone for personal use, though I have barely had a chance to use it since I got it as I have been so busy shooting for work.  The times I have managed to briefly get out with it have shown that IBIS and gimbal stabilisation are not even comparable. Steadicam/gimbal stuff is just that much better *as long as the operator is skilled,* which I am not!

Saying that, the recent leaps in combining IBIS and lens stabilisation seems to be yielding good results in certain situations.  I can't find it now (I just spent about 30 mins looking through my internet history for it!), but a fairly recent video I watched of what I believe was an Olympus E-M1 mkII matched with an Olympus stabilised lens showed impressive results for casual use.  If I'm able to find the video again I will update my post, though it may have been a different camera which might be why I can't find it.

@OP - sorry for the thread hijack!  I am weighing up a 1DXII purchase with some video use in mind so am watching related threads quite closely at the moment.

Thanks very much for this.  I'm learning more each day.  I'm guessing the OP is stuck with trying to get answers from Canon and I'll be watching for more on that.

Jack
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lic4

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2016, 12:05:24 PM »
**edited with an additional explanation of results.

This is a test using a opening and closing door with cameras positioned one over the other at the same vertical angle. Please forgive me for doing this so crudely; it isn't pretty, but it's good enough for me.

The six images show the results I found. The first four are images at 23.976fps, 4K MJPG on the 1DX Mark II next to 23.976 1080 All-I on the Canon 5D Mark III. I included a red line from the 5D III next to the 1DX to show the difference.

The final two images are comparisons with the 1DX Mark II at 60p. The relative difference and improvement in rolling shutter to the 5D Mark III appears to be the same either at 24p or 60p. I was surprised to see that the difference to the 5D is not that much.

**the difference in slope is more pronounced at times because I was not opening and closing the door each time at the same speed, and I tended to swing it faster in one direction due to my positioning. --thanks for understanding!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 12:49:13 PM by lic4 »

Besisika

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2016, 12:39:37 PM »
This is a test using a opening and closing door with cameras positioned one over the other at the same vertical angle. Please forgive me for doing this so crudely; it isn't pretty, but it's good enough for me.

I'm attaching six images showing new tests I made. The first four are images at 23.976fps, 4K MJPG on the 1DX Mark II next to 23.976 1080 All-I on the Canon 5D Mark III. I included a red line from the 5D III next to the 1DX to show the difference.

The final two images are comparisons with the 1DX Mark II at 60p. The relative difference and improvement in rolling shutter to the 5D Mark III appears to be the same either at 24p or 60p. I was surprised to see that the difference to the 5D is not that much.
Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2016, 12:39:37 PM »

Fatalv

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2016, 03:09:47 PM »
I'm confused why the sensor readout time would change at all when switching from 24p/30p/60p.

I would assume the sensor readout time would be constant at the given resolution (1080p or 4k) and the change would be the interval of how often a readout is taken (to determine 24p/30p/60p). Is this not the case?
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lay85

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2016, 07:43:04 PM »
It's now been over a month since I contacted Canon about this and still have no explanation or reply since 5th December.
I did however get the sensor cleaned and wow, what a difference. I had been a bit unhappy with the still image quality but now they look quite a bit better and sharper but the camera did arrive with so much dust on the sensor, worse I've ever seen in 10 years.
RE: The video issue again, we are using one of the best stabilisation systems ( 2x kenyon gyro) and have been for 6 years with no issue and the 1920 x 1080 footage is super smooth so just the 4k which is crap.
 

Jack Douglas

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2016, 12:58:33 AM »
It's now been over a month since I contacted Canon about this and still have no explanation or reply since 5th December.
I did however get the sensor cleaned and wow, what a difference. I had been a bit unhappy with the still image quality but now they look quite a bit better and sharper but the camera did arrive with so much dust on the sensor, worse I've ever seen in 10 years.
RE: The video issue again, we are using one of the best stabilisation systems ( 2x kenyon gyro) and have been for 6 years with no issue and the 1920 x 1080 footage is super smooth so just the 4k which is crap.

Given it's holiday season I'm not surprised but keep after it.

Jack
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mkabi

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2016, 11:58:41 AM »
This whole Jello effect is being blown out of proportion and pretty stupid in my opinion.

If you are panning fast and including that in your final edit for whatever reason (cause obviously your audience is waiting for that fast pan and going to pause your video then zoom in to look for that slant)... then I suggest fixing a GoPro on your 1dx2 and intercut the non-slanted video shots where necessary.
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lic4

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2016, 09:00:08 PM »
This whole Jello effect is being blown out of proportion and pretty stupid in my opinion.

If you are panning fast and including that in your final edit for whatever reason (cause obviously your audience is waiting for that fast pan and going to pause your video then zoom in to look for that slant)... then I suggest fixing a GoPro on your 1dx2 and intercut the non-slanted video shots where necessary.

This thread was started because a camera owner has a model with some kind of problem, and then there was a discussion trying to ascertain what's normal for the camera.

The camera clearly has a very fast sensor, so it seems the original poster has a problem with his particular camera. Now he's waiting for word from Canon. It isn't stupid; it's what forums are for.

Etienne

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2016, 11:25:57 PM »
This whole Jello effect is being blown out of proportion and pretty stupid in my opinion.

If you are panning fast and including that in your final edit for whatever reason (cause obviously your audience is waiting for that fast pan and going to pause your video then zoom in to look for that slant)... then I suggest fixing a GoPro on your 1dx2 and intercut the non-slanted video shots where necessary.

It is extremely relevant. If you want to stabilize your 4K footage and export at 1080p, too much rolling shutter can make it impossible.
And it's not only about panning. Any object that moves quickly through the frame will be slanted due to rolling shutter. This becomes even more troublesome if you are trying to capture footage for slow motion. Have you ever shot any video at all?

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2016, 11:25:57 PM »

Jack Douglas

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2016, 07:54:47 AM »
I think it's relevant and generally even the worst threads and this isn't one of them, provide useful information.

Polite disagreements add to a thread and it's best not to take the stupid this or that comments too seriously since we all have the thought from time to time, even if we don't express it.  Personalities vary from insensitive to overly sensitive and from blunt to very polite.  It makes for more interesting discussions although sometimes it may not feel too good. :)

"If you want to stabilize your 4K footage and export at 1080p ....."  I've only shot a few minutes of 4K and HD but am trying to learn so the 1DX2 gets better utilized.  However, I have no background in video - Etienne, would you care to briefly detail how this is done (or suggest a good reference)?

Jack
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syder

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2016, 08:06:49 AM »


"If you want to stabilize your 4K footage and export at 1080p ....."  I've only shot a few minutes of 4K and HD but am trying to learn so the 1DX2 gets better utilized.  However, I have no background in video - Etienne, would you care to briefly detail how this is done (or suggest a good reference)?

Jack

One common use for shooting 4K, at least until consumers have 4K screens to watch material on, is to shoot at a higher resolution than you finish up with, i.e. the resolution of your exported video, which is often full HD/1080p.

One of the big advantages of doing this is that you can then stabilise or reframe your image without losing resolution in your exported video. If you shoot 1080p, and then stabilise your footage you lose resolution.

Have an awesome new year Jack  :D

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Re: Canon 1DXmkII 4K Video jello.
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2016, 08:06:49 AM »