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Author Topic: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...  (Read 2101 times)

jrista

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Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« on: February 05, 2012, 08:02:45 PM »
It seems the use of the terms 5D X and 7D X are becoming popular, and I've even used 5D X a couple times myself. I've been digging through all the available material on Canon's forthcoming 1D X, and from what I can tell, the use of the moniker "X" is because Canon considers that particular body to be the "tenth generation" of their flagship camera. I was confused how they could call it the tenth generation, when at best you can count  eight separate cameras in the 1D line (including the 1D II N). Generationally, there are only four generations of the EOS 1D line. It seems Canon is actually counting the EOS-1 Series film cameras as well, which stopped at the 1V (fifth), followed by the four generations of 1D digital cameras. That would mean a total of nine EOS-1 cameras, both film and digital, have been released by Canon, making the 1D X quite literally deserving of the Roman Numeral for ten.

Given that, I think its highly unlikely we'll see some of the more wild rumors, such as a 5D X which would be the merger of the 5D and 7D lines, materialize. The "X" designation is not indicative of "merger", its indicative of "ten", and the 5D and 7D lines are still relatively new in the grand scheme of things. There have been the EOS 5 (more commonly known as the EOS A2 and A2e), as well as the EOS Elan, which included the EOS Elan 7, but I don't believe there is any correlation between those cameras and the 5D and 7D as there was with the EOS-1 and the 1D line.

Unless Canon decides to skip a few generations for both cameras (and nine whole generations for the 7D), it seems most logical that we'll see the 5D III rather than a 5D X, and a 7D II rather than a 7D X. I also find it unlikely that we'll see any kind of merger of the 5D and 7D lines...both have their niches, and even if the 5D gets a better AF system, its still unlikely to *replace* the 7D for anything that needs a high frame rate and a cropped sensor for the added reach.
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Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« on: February 05, 2012, 08:02:45 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 08:06:31 PM »
G1 X.

It's all the rage.
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jrista

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 08:09:15 PM »
G1 X.

It's all the rage.

That one even fits better, though. Its an entirely new sensor design, moving the PowerShot G line from CCD to CMOS sensors. That gave them the opportunity to reset the version numbers to G1 (from G12), and tack on a new X moniker to indicate the divergence from the previous line. It makes sense with that camera...still wouldn't make sense with the 5D and 7D.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 08:23:13 PM »
The naming convention doesn't have to make logical sense.  Why the G1 X, and not the G1 S, Q, or Z?  Why did the Rebel line go from XTi to XSi to T1i?

Did you see the movie about the King of England during the American Revolution?  It was originally titled, The Madness of King George III, but after test marketing they dropped the III because audiences didn't want to see it, not having seen the (nonexistent) first two installments of a trilogy.  Historical consistency sacrificed to sell more tickets.

If test marketing determines that by sounding like the 1D X, a 5D X will sell better than a 5DIII, that's what we'll see.
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 08:26:52 PM »
My thought is thats pure salesmanship, and we will see more of the X versions.

Mark1

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 12:44:31 AM »
I'm over the whole mark 2, mark 3, mark 4 thing - it's boring.

X is far more exciting!

jrista

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 02:45:17 AM »
My thought is thats pure salesmanship, and we will see more of the X versions.

I dunno, Canon seems to think its literally "Version 10". They call it tenth generation and tenth model in their sites dedicated to it. More and more preview sites are calling it the 10th Gen, etc. Sure, its a bit of sales prowess...but it works great with the 1D line...hell of a lot better than for the 5D and 7D lines (especially when you start thinking "beyond X versions"...)

I'm over the whole mark 2, mark 3, mark 4 thing - it's boring.

X is far more exciting!

Sure...until you get beyond X. What do you use then...XI...X Mark II...X Marks the Spot... that just seems like a mess. Continuing to use roman numerals may work for the 1D, but it doesn't make any sense at all for the 5D or 7D. They would have added the X monitor as just another isolated character in the name, making things more confusing for customers (how do the 5D X II and 5D II compare to each other...??)

At least the Mark I, II, III approach is simple and understandable, and applies across both lenses and cameras. I doubt even more we'll start seeing EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L X lenses anytime soon... ;-)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2012, 02:47:27 AM by jrista »
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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 02:45:17 AM »

moreorless

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 03:12:42 AM »
My guess would be that if we see anymore Canon maybe viewing the "X brand" as a way of focusing attension away from pure resolution. ISO performance and pixel quality are afterall the main selling points of the 1DX and the G1X over previous models and if rumours are correct the new 5D may have that advanatge over the D800, even the new 7D has often been rumoured to be sticking to 18 megapixels.

kapanak

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 04:03:16 AM »
I'm over the whole mark 2, mark 3, mark 4 thing - it's boring.

X is far more exciting!

Sure...until you get beyond X. What do you use then...XI...X Mark II...X Marks the Spot... that just seems like a mess. Continuing to use roman numerals may work for the 1D, but it doesn't make any sense at all for the 5D or 7D. They would have added the X monitor as just another isolated character in the name, making things more confusing for customers (how do the 5D X II and 5D II compare to each other...??)

At least the Mark I, II, III approach is simple and understandable, and applies across both lenses and cameras. I doubt even more we'll start seeing EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L X lenses anytime soon... ;-)
[/quote]

They would have 3 years to think about how to fix that up ... plenty of time. XD
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ferdi

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 06:26:16 AM »
(...) I was confused how they could call it the tenth generation, when at best you can count  eight separate cameras in the 1D line (including the 1D II N).

As far as I know, these are the 10 generations:

  • Canon F-1
  • Canon New F-1
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  • Canon EOS-1, 1N and 1N RS
  • Canon EOS-1v
  • Canon EOS-1D and 1Ds
  • Canon EOS-1D Mark II and 1Ds Mark II
  • Canon EOS-1D Mark III and 1Ds Mark III
  • Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
  • Canon EOS-1D X

So yes, the EOS-1 series and the 1v count as a generation.
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ecka

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 06:28:30 AM »
Don't worry, we'll have EOS-1D X2 after that :).
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 06:51:48 AM »
My thought is thats pure salesmanship, and we will see more of the X versions.

I dunno, Canon seems to think its literally "Version 10". They call it tenth generation and tenth model in their sites dedicated to it.

I'm over the whole mark 2, mark 3, mark 4 thing - it's boring.

X is far more exciting!

Sure...until you get beyond X. What do you use then...XI...X Mark II...X Marks the Spot... that just seems like a mess. Continuing to use roman numerals may work for the 1D, but it doesn't make any sense at all for the 5D or 7D. They would have added the X monitor as just another isolated character in the name, making things more confusing for customers (how do the 5D X II and 5D II compare to each other...??)

Time will tell, of course.  I think they came up with the name 1D X and then came up with a clever way to justify it by calling it the tenth generation.  They still have the same problem, BTW.  What...1D XI?  Or 1D X Mark II?

Also, here are the reasons stated by Chuck Westfall:

  • X for extreme (X-treme) performance
  • X for cross-over (X-over), since this represents the merging of Canon's two pro digital SLR cameras, the higher-resolution EOS-1Ds Mark III and higher-performance EOS-1D Mark IV, into a single next-generation model
  • The Roman numeral X, as in 10, because the EOS-1D X represents the 10th generation of pro-class SLR from Canon since the F-1 debuted in 1971

So, being the 10th generation is only one of three reasons for the moniker.  Clearly, the first one applies to the G1 X, and could apply to the 5D X, especially if some of the rumored specs are true. 

The naming of the PowerShot S series was logical, right?  S90 → S95 → S100.  Except that there was already an S100.  Didn't stop Canon from releasing another PowerShot with the same identifier.
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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 12:11:35 PM »
Honestly who cares what it is called?  If it were Z, Y, or V it doesn't matter to me.  What matters to me is placing a camera in my hands and making great images.  I don't care about the name of camera as long as it does one thing, being tool to make great images.  Names are purely for marketing purposes and if people are so concerned that the cameras don't go 1,2,3 in their names, that they should be concerned about great images.
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Re: Quick thoughts on the legitimacy of seeing 5D/7D "X" versions...
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 12:11:35 PM »