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Author Topic: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?  (Read 4835 times)

Radiating

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Canon seems overly focused on cameras with longer focal lengths. Their lenses above 70mm are nothing but perfection. So are their bodies oriented towards action photography.

I feel like they simply are mediocre and lacking for the majority of pro photographers though. Sure they are better than the competition, but nowhere near where they could be.

Their offerings for non-action photographers are mediocre by industry standards, Leica has way better lenses and the Nikon has way better bodies with the upcoming D800e And D3S being perfection in their respective roles.

What gives? Its like Canon is content with incremental improvements for the masses.

I've decide to further explain this, here's my post from page 2:

I'm not sure where attitudes like this come from. Canon doesn't 'hate' anybody or group of photographers, nor do they 'like' any. What they like is making money, and their product development plans are guided by what they believe will garner them the most profit.

I feel like that's Canon's core problem. They seem much more interested in making minor tweaks to maximize profit, yet they forget about the big picture and overall market share. If they made a truely epic core system, they'd see a much larger market share and greater overall profits not to mention satisfying more people.

(abbridged) I think its rather unfair to say that Canon isn't paying attention to non-action photographers. Their newest versions of non-telephoto lenses strongly indicate otherwise, especially for lenses released in the last couple years.

I would disagree. The 24mm f/1.4 L II and 85mm f/1.2 L II are stellar, but having owned both the 14mm f/2.8 II and the 50mm f/1.2L , the 50mm is dissapointing, and should be much sharper with much less CA and the 14mm f/2.8 L just isn't good enough. The Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 is not only much better, but it zooms AND it's cheaper. Canon's ultra wide lenses are dinosaurs.

Canon's 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II is stellar yes, it's also an action photographers lens. Simply put Canon non action bodies are way behind the curve, and so are their bread and butter lenses (normal primes and zooms), save a few exceptions. That's why I feel like their offerings below 70mm are really done as an afterthought to make profit.

The 5D MK II is not a sports or wildlife camera, its aimed directly at landscape and studio photographers.  They are not going to go away from that, they sell more 5D MK II's than all their competition to this camera combined.

However, understand that Canon is not in the small market speciality camera business.  They long ago established themselves as a high volume manufacturer that produced excellent quality products for the price.  They are a large company and know how to do high volume production, and do it well.  They make a profit when everyone else is losing money, so from that standpoint, they are doing something right.

The upcoming D800/D800e from Nikon obliterates the 5D II. 36 mp and optionally no AA filter. Canon's response is the reported 22mp 5D II successor. If Nikon gets their primes and zooms from 24mm to 70mm up to par it's game over. Either way anyone shooting from 14mm to 24mm just found their definitive camera.

Between the D3s and the D800e Nikon will have the best bodies, their lenses are lacking but Nikon is in the perfect position to dominate if they fix that.

Canon really needs to come up with an answer to the D800 and all the fantastic low light high dynamic range cameras from Nikon. Something with the 1Dx sensor in a compact body and a D800 clone in other words. I feel like Canon could possibly challenge Nikon if the 22mp 5D sensor is as good as the 1Dx sensor, it's resolution is designed so it is great at video (it works out to exactaly 4 pixels per pixel on a 1080p video) but that's no reason it can't have 1Dx low light and dynamic range performance, that would be ideal, considering the autofocus system is rumored to be exceptional.

Canon's lenses above 70mm are superb and so are their 24mm prime lenses. Everything else is pretty mediocre however. Canon needs to simply clone the: Nikon 14-24mm, Leica 35–70mm f/2.8 Vario-Elmarit-R ASPH (yes I realize this was a $7000 lens made at a loss, but it's the best normal zoom ever made at any aperture, and I'm sure it would be profitable if made in high volume at half the price, and including IS would really be ideal). Then all they need is to come up with a sharp CA free 50mm L prime.

That's 2 bodies and 3 lenses that would corner the market for the pro wedding, studio and landscape guys. (one body which they might even be already making)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 09:01:13 PM by Radiating »

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neuroanatomist

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2012, 09:23:31 PM »
I'm not sure where attitudes like this come from. Canon doesn't 'hate' anybody or group of photographers, nor do they 'like' any. What they like is making money, and their product development plans are guided by what they believe will garner them the most profit.
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jrista

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2012, 09:28:16 PM »
Canon seems to excell at action cameras and deliver everything one would want. Their big L lenses have epic resolution, APO (apochromatic), and the ideal bodies.

I feel like they simply ignore everyone else though.

Their other offerings are mediocre, Leica has way better lenses and the Nikon has way better bodies with the upcoming D800e And D3S being perfection in their respective roles.

What gives? Its like Canon is content with incremental improvements for everyone else. The second Nikon ups it's lenses they will be dinosaurs for the majority of pro photographers who don't shoot action.

Not really sure what your are referring to. When it comes to lenses, Canon's newest offerings, brand new entrants or Mark II lenses, are STELLAR. I think its a bit subjective to say Leica has way better lenses. Look at the following lenses from Canon over the last few years: 14mm f/2.8 L II, 24mm f/1.4 L II, 50mm f/1.2 L, 85mm f/1.2 L II (one of the best DSLR portrait lenses on earth...FANTASTIC!), 70-200 f/2.8 L II (one of the best wedding lenses, offers the option for amazing perspective with superb optics), etc.

Canon also has a lot of specialty lenses to offer, some that cannot be found from any other manufacturer: TS-E 17mm f/4 L, TS-E 24mm f/3.5 L II, MP-E 65mm 1-5x zoom Macro, 400mm f/4 DO (diffractive optics, smallest lens size for an f/4 400mm lens available), etc.

From an IQ standpoint, many of Canon's older lenses for all the Mark II's above were good, but not best in class. Compare MTF charts for original and Mk II lenses, and you'll see incredible improvement in most lenses. Lenses released in the last 2-3 years are receiving multicoating treatment that improves IQ above and beyond many world-renown lenses from the likes of Zeiss (which is what many Leica lenses are) due to VASTLY superior flare control, which improves contrast and overall light transmission.

I think its rather unfair to say that Canon isn't paying attention to non-action photographers. Their newest versions of non-telephoto lenses strongly indicate otherwise, especially for lenses released in the last couple years.

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 09:33:21 PM »
The 5D MK II is not a sports or wildlife camera, its aimed directly at landscape and studio photographers.  They are not going to go away from that, they sell more 5D MK II's than all their competition to this camera combined.

However, understand that Canon is not in the small market speciality camera business.  They long ago established themselves as a high volume manufacturer that produced excellent quality products for the price.  They are a large company and know how to do high volume production, and do it well.  They make a profit when everyone else is losing money, so from that standpoint, they are doing something right.


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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2012, 10:59:26 PM »
I'm not sure where attitudes like this come from. Canon doesn't 'hate' anybody or group of photographers, nor do they 'like' any. What they like is making money, and their product development plans are guided by what they believe will garner them the most profit.

I'm with big brain on this. Canon is a corporate entity devoid of any human emotion. Perhaps if you anthropomorphize the corporation it makes it easier to make your point -- but I don't see much validity in your point.

What you really seem to be saying is that you don't understand Canon's corporate strategy, given what you see in their products. All I can say to that is, welcome to the club!

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Hillsilly

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2012, 11:16:22 PM »
In their respective price brackets, I also feel Canon's offerings are as good (if not better) than their competitors.  Plus, one of the consistent reasons in the "Why Canon" thread related to Canon's extensive lens range.   Why would Canon be making lenses for people they hate?

I'm not going to pretend that Canon is perfect (ok.... they are perfect - I'm just being diplomatic), so why not be a bit more specific in your criticisms?  If you don't say exactly where Canon fails to meet your expectations, then nothing is likely to change. 
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D.Sim

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 11:44:25 PM »
I'm neither a sports nor a wildlife photographer... But I'm loving what Canon has to offer - It works for what I need, and I can garner from that, they've worked to get a product out to what I can use.

Do they hate me? Not in the least. Its not like they force everyone but wildlife and sports photographers to ONLY send in their equipment for servicing at a certain location.....

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2012, 11:44:25 PM »

AprilForever

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2012, 11:54:31 PM »
I'm mainly a wildlife and action photographer, so I don't mind being the favourite child!

Just kidding. Actually, as many have said, Canon has many wonderful things. Nikon people grumbled loudly when Canon invented the 5DII and even the 7D that they had nothing like it available.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. On the german side of the lens fence, it costs a pile more, has no autofocus OR IS....
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hoousi

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2012, 12:07:19 AM »
That's why I just changed from Nikon DX to Canon FF, because they hate us! And my 5DII is awful and always tries to take bad pictures...

Thats why on Nikon forums everybody is moaning about lacking lens choice, 12mp for ever, no 5dII type body, bad video, cheap FF,  etc etc. The grass is always greener...

My switch choice was the info about the 36mp D800, I'm no studio/landscaper nor do I feel like buying 1 hard disc a month. Come on, every system is top notch and has its strengths and flaws.

Canon's lens line up of DX and FF is way bigger and concerning DX better, Nikon does not offer any decent and new DX high quality lenses (with IS/VR, 17-55 anyone), at present the Nikon cameras may have a slight edge in high iso but thats ok with 12mp (it's 2012), so no, Canon did not forget the DX/non-L shooter, though both lack DX primes, probably because the market isn't there, cause also Sigma and Tamron aren't into this niche.

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2012, 12:39:06 AM »
no canon hates wildlife shooters too thats why they took f8 AF away :)
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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2012, 01:24:29 AM »

Not really sure what your are referring to. When it comes to lenses, Canon's newest offerings, brand new entrants or Mark II lenses, are STELLAR. I think its a bit subjective to say Leica has way better lenses. Look at the following lenses from Canon over the last few years: 14mm f/2.8 L II, 24mm f/1.4 L II, 50mm f/1.2 L, 85mm f/1.2 L II (one of the best DSLR portrait lenses on earth...FANTASTIC!), 70-200 f/2.8 L II (one of the best wedding lenses, offers the option for amazing perspective with superb optics), etc.


From an IQ standpoint, many of Canon's older lenses for all the Mark II's above were good, but not best in class. Compare MTF charts for original and Mk II lenses, and you'll see incredible improvement in most lenses. Lenses released in the last 2-3 years are receiving multicoating treatment that improves IQ above and beyond many world-renown lenses from the likes of Zeiss (which is what many Leica lenses are) due to VASTLY superior flare control, which improves contrast and overall light transmission.

 Hey Doc., Could you tell me why these photographs look worlds apart, aside from their obvious different lenses, one the nikkor 50mm f/1.2 and one the 85mm 1.8. both are set to f/5.6 and the rest is set to look the best it could be.


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/arodriguezpixl/6828071817/" title="_7009728 by a.RodriguezPixL, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6828071817_a2b63cc2c0_b.jpg" width="1024" height="681" alt="_7009728"></a>

_7009728 by a.RodriguezPixL, on Flickr


_MG_1572 by a.RodriguezPixL, on Flickr



<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/arodriguezpixl/6818884415/" title="_MG_1572 by a.RodriguezPixL, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7009/6818884415_b071deec06_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="_MG_1572"></a>


Camera    Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Exposure    0.013 sec (1/80)
Aperture    f/5.6
Focal Length    85 mm
ISO Speed    200
Exposure Bias    0 EV
Exposure Program    Aperture-priority AE
Metering Mode    Multi-segment
Exposure Mode    Auto
White Balance    Auto
Scene Capture Type    Standard
ontrast    +2
Saturation    +2
Camera ISO    Auto
Metering Mode    Evaluative
White Balance    Auto
Auto ISO





NIKON NIKKOR
Exposure    0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture    f/5.6
Focal Length    50 mm
ISO Speed    100
Exposure Bias    +1 EV
Flash    No Flash

Max Aperture Value    1.0
Metering Mode    Center-weighted average
Light Source    Fine Weather


jrista

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2012, 02:34:58 AM »

Not really sure what your are referring to. When it comes to lenses, Canon's newest offerings, brand new entrants or Mark II lenses, are STELLAR. I think its a bit subjective to say Leica has way better lenses. Look at the following lenses from Canon over the last few years: 14mm f/2.8 L II, 24mm f/1.4 L II, 50mm f/1.2 L, 85mm f/1.2 L II (one of the best DSLR portrait lenses on earth...FANTASTIC!), 70-200 f/2.8 L II (one of the best wedding lenses, offers the option for amazing perspective with superb optics), etc.


From an IQ standpoint, many of Canon's older lenses for all the Mark II's above were good, but not best in class. Compare MTF charts for original and Mk II lenses, and you'll see incredible improvement in most lenses. Lenses released in the last 2-3 years are receiving multicoating treatment that improves IQ above and beyond many world-renown lenses from the likes of Zeiss (which is what many Leica lenses are) due to VASTLY superior flare control, which improves contrast and overall light transmission.

 Hey Doc., Could you tell me why these photographs look worlds apart, aside from their obvious different lenses, one the nikkor 50mm f/1.2 and one the 85mm 1.8. both are set to f/5.6 and the rest is set to look the best it could be.

Not really sure why you copied my post verbatim (the first two paragraphs in your post), or what you are asking about. One shot looks fine, the other looks like it was either overexposed or has had some horrid post processing. I'm not sure how it applies to this topic, either.

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 02:58:48 AM »
To some extent I'd guess Canon focus more on these areas simpley because their the areas FF DSLR's are most well suited for hence they are the larger market. Ultimately MF will always provide the better studio/landscape IQ while Leica will provide the best compact prime lenses.

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2012, 02:58:48 AM »

aRodriguezPixL

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2012, 03:22:28 AM »

Not really sure what your are referring to. When it comes to lenses, Canon's newest offerings, brand new entrants or Mark II lenses, are STELLAR. I think its a bit subjective to say Leica has way better lenses. Look at the following lenses from Canon over the last few years: 14mm f/2.8 L II, 24mm f/1.4 L II, 50mm f/1.2 L, 85mm f/1.2 L II (one of the best DSLR portrait lenses on earth...FANTASTIC!), 70-200 f/2.8 L II (one of the best wedding lenses, offers the option for amazing perspective with superb optics), etc.


From an IQ standpoint, many of Canon's older lenses for all the Mark II's above were good, but not best in class. Compare MTF charts for original and Mk II lenses, and you'll see incredible improvement in most lenses. Lenses released in the last 2-3 years are receiving multicoating treatment that improves IQ above and beyond many world-renown lenses from the likes of Zeiss (which is what many Leica lenses are) due to VASTLY superior flare control, which improves contrast and overall light transmission.

 Hey Doc., Could you tell me why these photographs look worlds apart, aside from their obvious different lenses, one the nikkor 50mm f/1.2 and one the 85mm 1.8. both are set to f/5.6 and the rest is set to look the best it could be.

Not really sure why you copied my post verbatim (the first two paragraphs in your post), or what you are asking about. One shot looks fine, the other looks like it was either overexposed or has had some horrid post processing. I'm not sure how it applies to this topic, either.

 Sorry about that, that was a "quote" use mistake, no offense! i meant it for the Dr. Brain! secondly, the images had no PP jist SOOC! The first is Nikon D700 the second is Canon 5D MK II OOC no PP! My point was to ask Dr. Brain, how, if possible, could one explain these obvious difference, with really near same composure? Both my cameras, both my handheld shots, different lenses, different days, but as near conditions as possible! :)

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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 03:45:07 AM »
Since when were the 1ds 3 and 5d 2 wildlife and sports cameras?

They just cut out the crop-factor of the 1-series, if you had paid any attention, you can see that a lot of people miss the 1,3 crop for just that, and also that the 1d X doesn't do AF at f8 like the mk4.

And before we see som actual images (maybe also up res'd ones) from the 1d X, it's just guessing if the IQ isn't better than the 1ds3, my guess is that it is way better. Due to lower noise, therefor better DR, better colordepth.

Now, I can say so much that if I were a studio photographer, I wouldn't pay for the 61 af-points and staggering AF-speed and 12 fps, it's a waste for studio. So that makes me also think that the IQ will be amazing for a studio-photographer to even consider it.
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Re: Why does Canon hate everyone but sports and wildlife photographers?
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2012, 03:45:07 AM »