October 01, 2014, 02:36:23 PM

Poll

How does Canon respond to the D800?

High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k
35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k
95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500
40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000
23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k
39 (16.8%)

Total Members Voted: 188

Voting closed: February 10, 2012, 02:50:59 PM

Author Topic: How does Canon respond to the D800?  (Read 35260 times)

altenae

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2012, 11:09:06 AM »
Wel they respond with nice clean images.....instead of NOISE in ISO 320...yeah...

Nice url here

http://fakechuckwestfall.wordpress.com/author/fcwestfall/

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2012, 11:09:06 AM »

KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2012, 11:25:18 AM »
Nice url here
<snip>

More like "another example of an internet muppet who thinks that comparing a 36mp sensor against an 18mp sensor using 100% crops from each is s fair comparison"...

Don't get me wrong - I have no interest whatsoever in the D800 or "what it means for Canon", and I'm less than impressed from the IQ I've seen from it so far (although it's a preview model, so things may well change) but I strongly suspect that this particular internet muppet is clueless, or dishonest, or both (imagine that!)

He clearly has an agenda where an increase in megapixels is concerned though, which (along with the entire rest of his site  - anyone who talks up the Darwin Wiggett review of the 7D, is a cretin) displays his ignorance.

In any event, without a clear statement of his comparison methodology, that site is a useless reference point, I'm afraid.

kenraw

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2012, 12:37:52 PM »
I think their are a lot of photographers in the situation were they want to move to full frame but the dilema is that the 5dmk2 is a bit long in the tooth and has sub par AF, The 1Dx looks amazing but the price is going to be way too much for many people, plus I dont actually think the sample images so far do the 1Dx much justice. The 5dm3 or whatever it will be called seems to be taking for ever to be announced so now nikon have announced the D800 at a reasonable price with a pretty impressive spec I'm not surprised there are a lot of people interested in it. I would like to change but for me I prefer the layout and handling of the canons, but I do prefer the nikons perfomance. My friend has 2 D700's and I can tell you that they knock the socks of the 7D and are better than the 5dmk2 in almost every aspect. I'm always blown away when I use his cameras compared to my 7D's
I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when all I ask for is a 7D with a full frame sensor and twin CF slots. Thats all I desire. I dont like the nikon menu system or button layout or I would switch tomorrow as I couldnt care less about brand loyalty, I just want a reliable FF camera so I can get on with shooting!

So please canon lets have this new FF announcement.......

RuneL

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2012, 12:48:05 PM »
I think their are a lot of photographers in the situation were they want to move to full frame but the dilema is that the 5dmk2 is a bit long in the tooth and has sub par AF, The 1Dx looks amazing but the price is going to be way too much for many people, plus I dont actually think the sample images so far do the 1Dx much justice. The 5dm3 or whatever it will be called seems to be taking for ever to be announced so now nikon have announced the D800 at a reasonable price with a pretty impressive spec I'm not surprised there are a lot of people interested in it. I would like to change but for me I prefer the layout and handling of the canons, but I do prefer the nikons perfomance. My friend has 2 D700's and I can tell you that they knock the socks of the 7D and are better than the 5dmk2 in almost every aspect. I'm always blown away when I use his cameras compared to my 7D's
I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when all I ask for is a 7D with a full frame sensor and twin CF slots. Thats all I desire. I dont like the nikon menu system or button layout or I would switch tomorrow as I couldnt care less about brand loyalty, I just want a reliable FF camera so I can get on with shooting!

So please canon lets have this new FF announcement.......

In my opinion the D700 is pretty incomparable to anything in Canons lineup but the 1D. The 7D and 5D are just too bad regarding many areas in comparison to that.

And Canon has a fast, reliable, dual CF-slot, full frame camera, it is the 1D X. Get that, save up, get a used one 1Ds?

KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2012, 12:50:31 PM »
My friend has 2 D700's and I can tell you that they knock the socks of the 7D
That's not remotely true if you're cropping, if you have a well-sorted 7D conversion/pp workflow sorted out (I have) and if you appreciate/want/need lots of detail.

I've done umpteen IQ comparisons between my 7D and D700 files, and - at the image level - the 7D lacks for very little, if anything, assuming an effective workflow.

I'm afraid that I have little time in any walk of life for people who assume that because they can't do something, it can't be done - the 7D seems to attract a lot of folk like that.
 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 12:52:52 PM by KeithR »

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2012, 12:57:43 PM »
My friend has 2 D700's and I can tell you that they knock the socks of the 7D
That's not remotely true if you're cropping, if you have a well-sorted 7D conversion/pp workflow sorted out (I have) and if you appreciate/want/need lots of detail.

I've done umpteen IQ comparisons between my 7D and D700 files, and - at the image level - the 7D lacks for very little, if anything, assuming an effective workflow.

I'm afraid that I have little time in any walk of life for people who assume that because they can't do something, it can't be done - the 7D seems to attract a lot of folk like that.

Trying to understand exactly what you're saying.  Does "effective workflow" mean that there are certain "pre-set" post-processing things that need to be done to illicit this result?  If indeed that's what you're saying, it would seem to favor the D700: press button="good picture", vs. press button, download to <software>, make x+y+z manipulations="good picture".  But perhaps I'm missing part of what you mean?   ???

altenae

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2012, 12:59:37 PM »
Quote
it would seem to favor the D700: press button="good picture", vs. press button, download to <software>, make x+y+z manipulations="good picture". 

Unbelievable this kind of comments.
And this is a photography forum....sure...

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2012, 12:59:37 PM »

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2012, 01:08:20 PM »
Quote
it would seem to favor the D700: press button="good picture", vs. press button, download to <software>, make x+y+z manipulations="good picture". 

Unbelievable this kind of comments.
And this is a photography forum....sure...

Not quite sure what you're saying.  I'm talking about comparing outputs, not "set up lighting, adjust exposure compensation, set focus, set aperature, set WB, get subjects to smile...etc, etc."  Yes there is a lot that goes into taking a decent picture, but it didn't seem too much of a stretch that if you're comparing 2 bodies that the same effort in setting up and actually taking the photo would be applied to both.

Maybe you would prefer that I name specific software packages and highlight all of the thousands of PP tweaks that can be made?  And how exactly is your comment contributing to the conversation??

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2012, 01:13:18 PM »

And Canon has a fast, reliable, dual CF-slot, full frame camera, it is the 1D X. Get that, save up, get a used one 1Ds?

I bought a 1Ds3 as a tactical purchase until the 1DX is a reasonable price. A cracking buy - better IQ than a 5D2, better AF than a 7D, low noise up to its max of iso3200.

It is my walkabout camera now - very good it has proved to be!!

Here is a candid of a young lady I met in a cafe,

natural light, iso3200, f/5.6, 1/60, 70-200II@168




KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2012, 01:13:48 PM »

But perhaps I'm missing part of what you mean?

I'm saying that - with just a little bit of care and effort on a user's part - it's possible to make images that match the D700 in terms of IQ: perhaps with a D700 it might be easier (although as I suggest, that depends on things like what you're shooting and whether you're focal-length limited), but it's still easy with the 7D.

So spend some time researching which converters get the best out of 7D files (plenty of info about that on the net) and use them - hardly an onerous task.

Then, post process the files intelligently. In terms of the steps and techniques I use, I'm using exactly the same PP workflow I used to use on my 40D: I don't "capture" sharpen on conversion, and instead, sharpen selectively in PP using nothing more complicated than a duplicate layer and the Eraser brush.

I also apply NR selectively if needed, the same way.

It's dead easy, it's quick, and it's no trouble at all.

7D files dealt with like this match the likes of the D700 right up the ISO scale.

I've posted 6400 ISO (another) and 12800 ISO images from my 7D before (3200 ISO is easy) and they want for nothing. Yes they're "only" at web sizes, so you're going to have to trust me when I say that they print really well too.)

If the little bit of extra time my PP involves is too much trouble for some people, that's their problem. I take the view that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly - I realise that I may be a minority voice there...

The exif is in all of those - they're all in low light or "available dark".

Suffice to say, the only IQ "problem" the 7D has is that careless sharpening can cause problems: keep away from capture sharpening, and apply such sharpening as you need selectively, and the 7D's IQ is as clean as a whistle at the image level (this last being the final piece of the puzzle - I can pretty much guarantee that people who complain about 7D noise are looking at the files at 100%).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:28:10 PM by KeithR »

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2012, 01:26:55 PM »
The price ranges are wrong. Anything under 30MP will need to be no more than $2500, probably closer to $2000. Look at the flack Canon has received for the 1DX's pricing because of Nikon's D4, even though it has more megapixels.

I can imagine the D800 causing a fair amount of angst at Canon.

I know I will be smited for this;  but I agree Canon overpriced the 1Dx. This is what I love about free enterprise... Nikon, thank you again for looking out for us Canon guys by releasing new bodies and pricing them reasonably.  :-*

You are looking at the Canon top dollar price. The street price will come down to just a little more than the 1D4

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2012, 01:30:16 PM »

But perhaps I'm missing part of what you mean?

I'm saying that - with just a little bit of care and effort on a user's part - it's possible to make images that match the D700 in terms of IQ: perhaps with a D700 it might be easier (although as I suggest, that depends on things like what you're shooting and whether you're focal-length limited), but it's still easy with the 7D.

If the little bit of extra time my PP involves is too much trouble for some people, that's their problem. I take the view that if it's worth doing, it's worth doing properly - I realise that I may be a minority voice there...

If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.   ;)

KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2012, 01:39:46 PM »
If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.   ;)

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs (less than 1600 ISO, say), and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:44:20 PM by KeithR »

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2012, 01:39:46 PM »

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2012, 01:44:08 PM »
If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.   ;)

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs, and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

750 triathletes each swimming, biking, running, and crossing the finish line.   :D

You could argue the need/definition for great IQ, but as you yourself said, if it's worth doing, do it right.  So if there are options that are comparable without PP, that's a big time saver for a better result.   ;)

KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2012, 01:46:55 PM »
I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:48:41 PM by KeithR »

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2012, 01:46:55 PM »