July 30, 2014, 09:42:55 PM

Poll

How does Canon respond to the D800?

High MP (30-36mp) body with price to match $3k
35 (15.1%)
Hi DR;  mid MP (21-24mp) body with improved AF priced $2.5-3k
95 (40.9%)
Hi DR lower MP (18-21mp) body with great ISO priced $2300 -$2500
40 (17.2%)
Mini/crippled  1Dx @ $3000
23 (9.9%)
Awin's Shove it in Nikon's face 40MP+ monster priced at $3k
39 (16.8%)

Total Members Voted: 188

Voting closed: February 10, 2012, 02:50:59 PM

Author Topic: How does Canon respond to the D800?  (Read 34451 times)

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2012, 01:49:14 PM »
If it's 3000 images, a "little bit of extra time" adds up pretty quickly.   ;)

Can you really name me a circumstance where the need for great IQ (specifically, high levels of detail and low noise), a tight timescale and 3000 images all collide?

It isn't in wedding photography - stellar IQ really isn't a deal-breaker there (I suppose it might be if two photographers were getting married!) and it isn't photojournalism, so what Real World situations exist where my kind of workflow isn't an option?

Bear in mind that at low ISOs, and depending on the intended use of the files, none of that "extra" work might actually be necessary.

750 triathletes each swimming, biking, running, and crossing the finish line.   :D

You could argue the need/definition for great IQ, but as you yourself said, if it's worth doing, do it right.  So if there are options that are comparable without PP, that's a big time saver for a better result.   ;)

Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2012, 01:49:14 PM »

KeithR

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2012, 01:52:40 PM »
Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

No problem with the 7D...

waving_odd

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2012, 01:54:29 PM »
What do you guys think Canon will do now? Match Nikon on features (since they probably need a high MP body anyway now that the 1dx is the high DR body) or will they go their own route (22mp but better AF etc).


NL is just fed with an anonymous rumor (maybe just a wishful list if you will):

"...Years ago, the 1D line split into the 1D and 1Ds - we've had a suggestion (thanks) that this will shortly happen with the 5D - a 5D3 and 5DX.

5D X

  • 45MP  (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
  • 3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4

5D mk III
  • 22MP
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but but simpler)
  • 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
  • Best HD video quality of any EOS camera

Both over $3k..."
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 01:56:29 PM by waving_odd »

7enderbender

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2012, 01:58:41 PM »

And Canon has a fast, reliable, dual CF-slot, full frame camera, it is the 1D X. Get that, save up, get a used one 1Ds?

I bought a 1Ds3 as a tactical purchase until the 1DX is a reasonable price. A cracking buy - better IQ than a 5D2, better AF than a 7D, low noise up to its max of iso3200.

It is my walkabout camera now - very good it has proved to be!!

Here is a candid of a young lady I met in a cafe,

natural light, iso3200, f/5.6, 1/60, 70-200II@168


That's what I would do if I had the money right now. Frankly, I'm still not clear what might be attractive about the 1Dx over the 1DsIII. And yes, if I was now where I was 18 months ago when I was starting all over from scratch when going digital I would have a very close look at the D800e. No anti-aliasing filter in combination with higher resolution seems pretty interesting. Again, in general I'm quite happy with my 5DII and I see the appeal of the 1DsIII of course. But I'm just saying. A different filter and sensor approach seems to be the way to go. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that also part of the reason why the Leica M9 produces such stunning sharp results?
5DII - 50L - 135L - 200 2.8L - 24-105 - 580EXII - 430EXII - FD 500/8 - AE1-p - bag full of FD lenses

kubelik

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2012, 02:03:14 PM »
What do you guys think Canon will do now? Match Nikon on features (since they probably need a high MP body anyway now that the 1dx is the high DR body) or will they go their own route (22mp but better AF etc).


NL is just fed with an anonymous rumor (maybe just a wishful list if you will):

"...Years ago, the 1D line split into the 1D and 1Ds - we've had a suggestion (thanks) that this will shortly happen with the 5D - a 5D3 and 5DX.

5D X

  • 45MP  (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
  • 3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4

5D mk III
  • 22MP
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but but simpler)
  • 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
  • Best HD video quality of any EOS camera

Both over $3k..."


that does seem like a wishlist, the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind of wishlist we all dream up.  the Digic 5 + Digic 4 combined is a big red flag to me; I don't know that you would want to pair two processing cores with (what I'm assuming are) different clock speeds together.

bigger question is, does Canon even feel the need to "answer" the D800?  the diffraction and low-ISO noise on the samples is fairly frightening, actually.  I think most of us here are looking for something in the mid-to-high 20 MP range (24-28 seems like a sweet spot in terms of IQ and resolution) that has some better performance in the high ISOs, higher frame rates, and improved AF.  if Canon gives that to us this year, the D800 will sit lonely in the corner for just as long as the D700 did.

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2012, 02:04:01 PM »
Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

No problem with the 7D...

I expect to be on iso3200 to get the shutter speed high enough.

I sold my two 7Ds because of the poor IQ, something the 1Ds3, 1D4 and 5D2 manage without breaking into a sweat.

When you get high speed action then it is not always possible to get the metering correct everytime , especially in poor light. Easy to do in DPP in one action on the RAW files without inducing noise - but it was not possible with the 7D

If the 7D was so noise free and quick to pp then perhaps you might wonder why the sports togs dont use them

waving_odd

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2012, 02:14:59 PM »
that does seem like a wishlist...

...bigger question is, does Canon even feel the need to "answer" the D800?  the diffraction and low-ISO noise on the samples is fairly frightening, actually.  I think most of us here are looking for something in the mid-to-high 20 MP range (24-28 seems like a sweet spot in terms of IQ and resolution) that has some better performance in the high ISOs, higher frame rates, and improved AF.  if Canon gives that to us this year, the D800 will sit lonely in the corner for just as long as the D700 did.

Also thought it looks more like wishful thinking...

But if it were the case, these 3 models from the 5D and 1D lines will serve almost all working professionals:

  • 1D X: top tier mission-critical photojournalists who need top-notch AF, FPS, ISO, and decent resolution
  • 5D X: studio/landscape/architecture photogs who need MF level resolution and DR
  • 5D III: wedding/journalist photogs who need high quality AF, ISO, and resolution and DR

I think Canon will improve their 7D line to the next level (hopefully almost 1D4 level) for wild life shooters.

Just some random thoughts...

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2012, 02:14:59 PM »

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2012, 02:34:47 PM »
I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?

"Using"= making available to the athletes for personal purchase, so all 3000--which is the culled list out of likely 5000+ shots.

Brain, yup, single sport event with a couple hundred athletes have a whole lot more "breathing" time, but 2 hours to get CD to organize--YIKES!?  I try to get a top hundred shots posted by end of the day, but takes the rest of the week to get thru them all.  What race are you shooting?

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2012, 04:17:40 PM »
I'd have thought that the biggest issue in that situation is the initial sorting/culling of the files - you're not going to need, use (sell?) all 3,000.

How many images in that scenario will you eventually end up using? Less than 100? Less than 50?

"Using"= making available to the athletes for personal purchase, so all 3000--which is the culled list out of likely 5000+ shots.

Brain, yup, single sport event with a couple hundred athletes have a whole lot more "breathing" time, but 2 hours to get CD to organize--YIKES!?  I try to get a top hundred shots posted by end of the day, but takes the rest of the week to get thru them all.  What race are you shooting?

This is the cross country organised by our local running club. I process the RAW files in DPP and use DPP to convert to jpg. A pass through PSE for levels for the bulk of the work. Then a 'eyeball check' for the pictures plus any fixes needed (mostly cropping). Produce the DVD with all the 'raw' jpg pictures and off to the club. The club then load them straight into the web site.

My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images. The club takes care of the web site and any sales/distribution.

All done in less than 2 hours. I did it last summer in good light with a 7D and I was very disappointed with the results, did the same in October is worse light with the 1D4 and got nearly 100% keepers (and those I missed I knew I had missed when taking them, usually another runner taking the focus)

thepancakeman

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2012, 04:36:02 PM »
My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images.

Well charge them, and then you're a pro!   ;D

briansquibb

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2012, 05:22:44 PM »
My role (unpaid as I am now an amateur) is just to deliver the processed images.

Well charge them, and then you're a pro!   ;D

Too many issues about charging - and I am not interested in that side either.

I would rather do the work that I want to - did some street pictures today amongst other things - rather than do what some client wants me to do.


awinphoto

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2012, 05:55:26 PM »
I remember a few months ago someone on this forum was criticizing the 7D as having noise in the sky in his landscape shots and was questioning the 7D's credibility and usability in landscape photography.  For the last day, I've heard a lot of people mentioning how much they want Canon to produce a large MP camera for (studio and landscape).  For the hell of it, I decided to check out the sample photos of the D800... The photos I saw, all the way from ISO 25K all the way down to ISO 100, all of them I could detect traces of noise the in the static areas of the scenes, whether it be the sky or shadow in the seashore scene, to the backdrop on the woman and wild cat shot, all the way down to the high ISO shots which compared to the 5d2 (i know, it's unfair to compare the two), Does this noise detract others from wanting to use this camera for landscapes, or was the posts a few months ago regarding the 7D nitpicking about nothing, or are you willing to forgive it because it is full frame and 36Mp rather than an 18MP crop camera?  Just getting people 2  cents
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kenraw

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2012, 06:44:08 PM »
Makes me glad that I have the 1Ds3 for this Sundays cross country race with a mere 250 runners - I have 2 hours to get the CD to the organiser

No problem with the 7D...

I expect to be on iso3200 to get the shutter speed high enough.

I sold my two 7Ds because of the poor IQ, something the 1Ds3, 1D4 and 5D2 manage without breaking into a sweat.

When you get high speed action then it is not always possible to get the metering correct everytime , especially in poor light. Easy to do in DPP in one action on the RAW files without inducing noise - but it was not possible with the 7D

If the 7D was so noise free and quick to pp then perhaps you might wonder why the sports togs dont use them

+1 on that for sure.

Now I'm not saying you can't get a good result with the 7d in pp because you can, however the pp required becomes incredibly time consuming when you have a couple of thousand wedding images, and you can't cull them down to 50 images for the bride.
I've used a d700 at a wedding alongside my 7d's and yes once pp and printed in the album they look as good as the d700 images, however the pp on the d700 was minimal in comparison, it was more of what effect to add as opposed to stretch the DR in raw then selectively sharpen, selectively NR add detail to areas on the 7d files etc

now before you jump on me about the d700, its not that I want a Nikon its just my friend has two d700's for weddings and lets me borrow one when I know I've got some serious low light situations to deal with.

maybe s second hand 1dmk3 is a good idea I never considered that option . I would love a 1dx but the launch price would be enough to buy 2 d800's and a lens or 2 5dmk2's and two L lenses

a 5dmk 2 with new AF is all I and many others wish for, please happen soon.

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2012, 06:44:08 PM »

kubelik

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2012, 07:18:22 PM »
I remember a few months ago someone on this forum was criticizing the 7D as having noise in the sky in his landscape shots and was questioning the 7D's credibility and usability in landscape photography.  For the last day, I've heard a lot of people mentioning how much they want Canon to produce a large MP camera for (studio and landscape).  For the hell of it, I decided to check out the sample photos of the D800... The photos I saw, all the way from ISO 25K all the way down to ISO 100, all of them I could detect traces of noise the in the static areas of the scenes, whether it be the sky or shadow in the seashore scene, to the backdrop on the woman and wild cat shot, all the way down to the high ISO shots which compared to the 5d2 (i know, it's unfair to compare the two), Does this noise detract others from wanting to use this camera for landscapes, or was the posts a few months ago regarding the 7D nitpicking about nothing, or are you willing to forgive it because it is full frame and 36Mp rather than an 18MP crop camera?  Just getting people 2  cents

I shoot a lot of architecture and landscape and it would drive me nuts if I had blue-sky noise when I'm shooting at ISO 100.  when you print large, you definitely see that noise.  if you use noise reduction, you lose detail in foliage or fine stonework/metalwork.  I guess it's a trade-off, since you start with more detail at 36 MP (assuming your lens is adequate) ... I still think something in between the 5DII and the D800 would be ideal.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2012, 12:31:18 AM »
What is a likely improvement to DR?

Hard to say, Canon has quite a lot of room to improve low ISO DR. They easily have 2 even 3 stops there. I'm not sure if their current basic architecture is capable of more than an extra 1/2 measured and 1 stop real though. Hopefully they have changed things up.

For SNR at middle gray there is a lot less room for improvement without a radically different sensor type or a re-write of the laws of physics. The best camera out there is probably within 1 stop of best that can be done as is already.

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Re: How does Canon respond to the D800?
« Reply #104 on: February 10, 2012, 12:31:18 AM »