December 17, 2017, 01:34:07 AM

Author Topic: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?  (Read 32506 times)

CanonFanBoy

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85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« on: May 12, 2017, 06:32:12 PM »
From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:34:23 PM by CanonFanBoy »
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85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« on: May 12, 2017, 06:32:12 PM »

rs

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 03:58:54 AM »
There are several L lens overlaps - two 16-35's, two 24-70's, four 70-200's, and then of course primes with  two 300's and two 400'
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 04:16:30 AM by rs »
5D II | M2 | 16-35/4 L IS | 24-70/2.8 L II | 70-200/2.8 L IS II | SY 12/2.8 | 40/2.8 | 85/1.2 L II | 100/2.8 L IS | 22 M | 18-55 M | EF-EOS M | 1.4x TC II | 580EX II | 90EX

bholliman

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 06:46:52 AM »
Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion.  Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement.  I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.
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Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2017, 06:58:54 AM »
I'm not in the market for the 85 f1.2, have had it and don't like it, but the 85 f1.4 L is HIGHLY interesting, also because of IS, I'm struggling a bit with shakey hands so the 135 I have is borderline what I can use at all. I guess there are more people like that wants epic IQ and IS that doesn't consider the f1.2.
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BeenThere

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 07:11:41 AM »
The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that  Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

jolyonralph

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 08:12:01 AM »
The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that  Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

The recent tour of the L lens production plant in Japan was quite revealing. It seems that as long as the tools and jigs are available for production of the lenses they can knock out pretty much any of their lenses on demand - it's not a matter of needing to produce 1000 at a time and then keeping them in storage (and as everyone knows, keeping lenses in long term storage is not something anyone wants to do.) As long as they don't run out of the injection moulded parts (which I'm sure they have plenty of) I see no reason why they won't continue to knock out 85 1.2s for as long as people want to buy them.

And the only reason that I wouldn't want to buy a new 85mm f/1.2L II is that I already have one. If it died I'd probably buy another rather than a 1.4 - unless the 1.4 happens to have as good background blur and colour rendition as the 1.2 - which I doubt.

As for the 85 1.4 refresh, I do hope that comes next after the 135mm refresh, but I suspect we're more likely to see a 200mm f/2.8L IS after that.

Canon don't seem to have any interest recently in updating their "Semi-pro" non L lenses.  The 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 are sorely in need of an upgrade, but I am assuming that for economic reasons they're concentrating on the L lenses for now.
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georgecpappas

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 08:42:36 AM »
I would suggest that you rent an 85mm 1.2 and a sigma 85mm 1.4 Art as examples of what to expect before making your decision.

I have an 85mm 1.2 and love it..both for portraits and landscapes.  At 1.2, the separation and rendition is beautiful; you don't need crisp corners.  Stopped down, I have found it equal to the Zeiss Milvus and Sigma 85mm art both of which I rented and tested side-by-side.

The AF is not fast which is OK for portraits and landscapes; I did not find the Sigma 85mm ART AF speed to be that much faster though it is a very nice lens.

My guess is that the size of the glass elements make IS a real challenge though I don't know this..Sigma doesn't have it either and they do at other focal lengths.

while I suspect the 85mm 1.2 is due for another upgrade at some point, the number of users is small enough that they will wait awhile until  we have 100mp sensors.....just a joke.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 08:42:36 AM »

BeenThere

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 08:50:20 AM »
The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that  Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

The recent tour of the L lens production plant in Japan was quite revealing. It seems that as long as the tools and jigs are available for production of the lenses they can knock out pretty much any of their lenses on demand - it's not a matter of needing to produce 1000 at a time and then keeping them in storage (and as everyone knows, keeping lenses in long term storage is not something anyone wants to do.) As long as they don't run out of the injection moulded parts (which I'm sure they have plenty of) I see no reason why they won't continue to knock out 85 1.2s for as long as people want to buy them.

And the only reason that I wouldn't want to buy a new 85mm f/1.2L II is that I already have one. If it died I'd probably buy another rather than a 1.4 - unless the 1.4 happens to have as good background blur and colour rendition as the 1.2 - which I doubt.

As for the 85 1.4 refresh, I do hope that comes next after the 135mm refresh, but I suspect we're more likely to see a 200mm f/2.8L IS after that.

Canon don't seem to have any interest recently in updating their "Semi-pro" non L lenses.  The 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 are sorely in need of an upgrade, but I am assuming that for economic reasons they're concentrating on the L lenses for now.
Some parts can't be economically produced in small quantities after a time. That is why Canon cannot repair some discontinued lenses.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 08:56:32 AM by BeenThere »

YuengLinger

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 04:31:49 PM »
Would this be the quintessential example of a First World Problem?   ::)

CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 05:06:29 PM »
Would this be the quintessential example of a First World Problem?   ::)
Let's talk about that over a case of Yuengling. ;)

But, yeah it would be.
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ahsanford

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 06:13:43 PM »
From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

1) Yes, it will be L.  That was a CR3 here some time ago.

2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective.  This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

3) I would be stunned to no end if this was a middle price point move.  It will be L, so it will be pricey.

- A

ahsanford

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 06:57:30 PM »
The [85 f/1.2L II] AF is not fast which is OK for portraits and landscapes; I did not find the Sigma 85mm ART AF speed to be that much faster though it is a very nice lens.

^^ This is one area they surely will improve. ^^  The 85 f/1.2L II has got to be one the slowest focusers in the L line. 

I see the 85 f/1.4L IS doing the following over the f/1.2L II...

  • Get much sharper throughout the frame to keep up with more recent Otus/Art sort of offerings (a certainty)

  • Get proper fast USM AF for event photographers, photojournos, etc. who don't want to miss a shot (a certainty)

  • Kill the focus by wire (hopefully)

  • I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens?  Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit?  (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

Notice 'get lighter' is not on that list.
  Both The Otus and Art lenses have more groups/elements and weigh more than the f/1.2L II.  Expect a big and stout lens.

- A

LordofTackle

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 07:09:21 PM »

    • I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens?  Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit?  (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

    - A

    Not a video person either, so: what's declickability??

    -Sebastian

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    Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
    « Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 07:09:21 PM »

    ahsanford

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    Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
    « Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 07:41:19 PM »

    • I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens?  Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit?  (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

    - A

    Not a video person either, so: what's declickability??

    -Sebastian

    https://thecinelens.com/2010/04/27/what-is-de-clicking-and-why-do-i-need-it/

    (In fairness, for this new 85L to sing for videographers, it would need an aperture ring to declick, would it not?  That's more a 3rd party lens move than Canon EF, one would think.)

    - A

    CanonFanBoy

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    Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
    « Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 09:51:28 PM »
    From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

    Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

    The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

    We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

    Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

    1) Yes, it will be L.  That was a CR3 here some time ago.

    2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective.  This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

    - A

    Yeah, it was and is CR3, but that could still be wrong.

    I can absolutely see it being sharper, but I'm not too sure there would be much difference in bokeh unless in this case bokeh means the whole image must be inherently softer throughout. In that case bokeh just means soft. I think an image can have a tack sharp subject and still be a beast when it comes to bokeh. I hope so anyway.

    I have to wonder whether or not this has more to do with overstock of 85 f/1.2L II needing to get sold while introducing a competing model with BR and IS. From what I understand the CA is horrible with the 85 f/1.2L II.

    I predict a huge price drop on the 85 f/1.2L II within 6 months of this new lens introduction (Christmas?). Then, discontinuance a year later.

    The choice between the two lenses will boil down to superior performance vs very discounted price. I think the new lens is going to murder the old one quickly even with a much higher price once the old lens is discounted.
    5D Mark III, Canon A-1, Voigtlander Vito, Tamron SP 15-30 f/2.8 Di VC, 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Helios 58 f/2 (x3), Canon FD 50 f/1.8, 600EX-RT (x7), Streaklight 360ws. Jumping ship to SoNikon any day now.

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    Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
    « Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 09:51:28 PM »