December 14, 2017, 05:30:40 AM

Author Topic: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?  (Read 32041 times)

mjg79

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2017, 06:33:15 PM »

I absolutely think can mean to sell it in between the two other 85's, the price alone is proof of that. A new top 85 would be more expensive.

I also wonder why there is no info other than the initial stuff. I'm buying one, but the wait gets crazy long when I have anything to check out while I'm waiting  ;D

That makes sense but I still struggle with something - given the advances that we have seen in lenses over the last decade and combined with the fact it should be easier to make a better corrected 1.4 lens than a 1.2 lens, I think it's a fair bet the new 85 1.4 will be in virtually every sense superior to the old lens - it should have less chromatic aberration, much much faster focus, IS, sharper corners - it strikes me the only real downside will be going from 1.2 to 1.4 but that won't make any visible difference. So all that begs the question - who will buy the 1.2 lens for the higher price? I would expect their sales to collapse.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2017, 06:33:15 PM »

Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2017, 06:51:03 PM »

I absolutely think can mean to sell it in between the two other 85's, the price alone is proof of that. A new top 85 would be more expensive.

I also wonder why there is no info other than the initial stuff. I'm buying one, but the wait gets crazy long when I have anything to check out while I'm waiting  ;D

That makes sense but I still struggle with something - given the advances that we have seen in lenses over the last decade and combined with the fact it should be easier to make a better corrected 1.4 lens than a 1.2 lens, I think it's a fair bet the new 85 1.4 will be in virtually every sense superior to the old lens - it should have less chromatic aberration, much much faster focus, IS, sharper corners - it strikes me the only real downside will be going from 1.2 to 1.4 but that won't make any visible difference. So all that begs the question - who will buy the 1.2 lens for the higher price? I would expect their sales to collapse.

I read somewhere that the 1.2 is sharper stopped down and the 1.4 is sharper wide open. but how they compare at f1.4 and f2.0 (where I'll be using it) doesn't seem all that clear.

I have no doubt, color, contrast will be better with the 1.4, but what I'm really hoping for is no distortion and a very minimal vignetting. And bokeh is a question still...
1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

mjg79

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2017, 07:44:18 PM »

I read somewhere that the 1.2 is sharper stopped down and the 1.4 is sharper wide open. but how they compare at f1.4 and f2.0 (where I'll be using it) doesn't seem all that clear.

I have no doubt, color, contrast will be better with the 1.4, but what I'm really hoping for is no distortion and a very minimal vignetting. And bokeh is a question still...

Interesting to hear what others hope for - distortion and vignetting never even come into my mind with a fast 85 but just shows how many different sides to lens design there are.

The bokeh and rendering issue is likely to be the big one especially as so many wedding photographers etc love the 85L though again, unless the new 85L IS has a really ugly rendering, which seems unlikely, I suspect that autofocus performance and sharpness at 1.4 will win out.

We saw that with the Sigma 50 Art - it was sharper than the old "Sigmalux" 50/1.4 but lost the lovely bokeh and rendering of the old lens but that didn't stop people from buying it.

I really think this is a fascinating situation and it will be interesting to see what the outcome is. Ultimately I suspect the new 85 is to be the flagship and the 85/1.2 will just be sold until stock runs out. However if Canon genuinely intends to keep selling both with the old lens being quite a bit more expensive it strikes me as quite unusual. I wonder if there might then be a 85 1.2 III if Canon now sees a market for two different fast 85s.

CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2017, 09:03:10 PM »
Have there been any more samples released from the 85 L IS? A quick google search didn't throw up many leads, I thought there would be some photographers Canon would have given it to to build up the hype but maybe I'm wrong.

I would love to see a head to head comparison with it and the 1.2 II.

+1, i can't find anything else than what was first released...

I dare say that all the early photos we'll see after the "unboxing" vids...will be lots of ducks...in a pond...

What the duck???!!!  ;)
5D Mark III, Canon A-1, Voigtlander Vito, Tamron SP 15-30 f/2.8 Di VC, 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Helios 58 f/2 (x3), Canon FD 50 f/1.8, 600EX-RT (x7), Streaklight 360ws. Jumping ship to SoNikon any day now.

Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2017, 04:33:00 AM »

I read somewhere that the 1.2 is sharper stopped down and the 1.4 is sharper wide open. but how they compare at f1.4 and f2.0 (where I'll be using it) doesn't seem all that clear.

I have no doubt, color, contrast will be better with the 1.4, but what I'm really hoping for is no distortion and a very minimal vignetting. And bokeh is a question still...

Interesting to hear what others hope for - distortion and vignetting never even come into my mind with a fast 85 but just shows how many different sides to lens design there are.



To me distortion and rendering go hand in hand. If I correct distortion, the pop just disappears and the shot goes flat. So I buy lenses with the least amounts of disortion as possible.
Vignetting doesn't really matter in portraits as I normally shoot with my own light and at iso 100 so correcting doesn't damage the shot. But in low light where I REALLY need all the light I can get, heavy vignette ruins the corners. :)
1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

mjg79

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2017, 12:00:19 PM »
To me distortion and rendering go hand in hand. If I correct distortion, the pop just disappears and the shot goes flat. So I buy lenses with the least amounts of disortion as possible.
Vignetting doesn't really matter in portraits as I normally shoot with my own light and at iso 100 so correcting doesn't damage the shot. But in low light where I REALLY need all the light I can get, heavy vignette ruins the corners. :)

I hadn't really thought of it in that way though thinking back I have noticed it - I have a copy of the Samyang 14mm 2.8 and the distortion is very odd - in most cases I leave it but when I have tried to correct it it does seem to diminish the photo.

Here we are 2/3 through October and I still can't find any new samples online. I really thought a new 85 L would see Canon really using a lot of famous photographer to drive up hype but still nothing. I still find it hard to believe this will be anything less than a great lens but I'm beginning to think they really are going to keep the 1.2 II as the flagship (I know they had said that but I assumed that was just empty words while they ran down the stock).

Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2017, 12:49:01 PM »
To me distortion and rendering go hand in hand. If I correct distortion, the pop just disappears and the shot goes flat. So I buy lenses with the least amounts of disortion as possible.
Vignetting doesn't really matter in portraits as I normally shoot with my own light and at iso 100 so correcting doesn't damage the shot. But in low light where I REALLY need all the light I can get, heavy vignette ruins the corners. :)

I hadn't really thought of it in that way though thinking back I have noticed it - I have a copy of the Samyang 14mm 2.8 and the distortion is very odd - in most cases I leave it but when I have tried to correct it it does seem to diminish the photo.

Here we are 2/3 through October and I still can't find any new samples online. I really thought a new 85 L would see Canon really using a lot of famous photographer to drive up hype but still nothing. I still find it hard to believe this will be anything less than a great lens but I'm beginning to think they really are going to keep the 1.2 II as the flagship (I know they had said that but I assumed that was just empty words while they ran down the stock).

Yeah, the Samyang has the dreaded moustach distortion, saw that somewhat with the Zeiss 21 also, I would rather have barrel distortion tbh.

I’m also a bit puzzled that there’s still nothing new, I don’t get it....
1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #66 on: October 20, 2017, 12:49:01 PM »

mjg79

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #67 on: October 20, 2017, 07:01:34 PM »


Yeah, the Samyang has the dreaded moustach distortion, saw that somewhat with the Zeiss 21 also, I would rather have barrel distortion tbh.

I’m also a bit puzzled that there’s still nothing new, I don’t get it....

I suppose at least with those two they are usually used for landscapes so it's less of an issue.

With the 35L II Canon released some quite decent official sample images at the end of August for the release in mid October so about 6 weeks before. I had thought it was earlier than that but I just googled it. I believe the 85L IS is expected mid November so they certainly are a bit later/slower this time.

I am probably just being impatient. The 85L was the key reason I ended up shooting Canon. I think it's an astonishing lens with a beautiful rendering. So the thought of Canon making a modern 85 and with IS really is exciting. Strangely I would have been happier if it was more expensive, sure then they were aiming at creating the best 85 they could. The fact it comes priced below the 1.2 II still makes me wonder what their strategy is. A brief glance on eBay suggests the 1.2 II's values are dropping fast and that was to be expected. I doubt I will ever sell mine unless the 1.4 really offers a better rendering, which I do think is possible - 1.2 v 1.4 is invisible in most circumstances. I don't think I've felt this excited about a new lens release before so I really just want some nice, high-res samples to look at!

CanonFanBoy

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2017, 05:58:11 AM »

I absolutely think can mean to sell it in between the two other 85's, the price alone is proof of that. A new top 85 would be more expensive.

I also wonder why there is no info other than the initial stuff. I'm buying one, but the wait gets crazy long when I have anything to check out while I'm waiting  ;D

That makes sense but I still struggle with something - given the advances that we have seen in lenses over the last decade and combined with the fact it should be easier to make a better corrected 1.4 lens than a 1.2 lens, I think it's a fair bet the new 85 1.4 will be in virtually every sense superior to the old lens - it should have less chromatic aberration, much much faster focus, IS, sharper corners - it strikes me the only real downside will be going from 1.2 to 1.4 but that won't make any visible difference. So all that begs the question - who will buy the 1.2 lens for the higher price? I would expect their sales to collapse.

I read somewhere that the 1.2 is sharper stopped down and the 1.4 is sharper wide open. but how they compare at f1.4 and f2.0 (where I'll be using it) doesn't seem all that clear.

I have no doubt, color, contrast will be better with the 1.4, but what I'm really hoping for is no distortion and a very minimal vignetting. And bokeh is a question still...

Hi Viggo,
I have the 35mm f/1.4L II and the DOF is soooooo shallow (thin?). That is the fastest lens I have and the only one faster than f/2. I can't imagine how shallow the DOF is on an 85 f/1.4. I assume the DOF is even thinner than that of the 35mm.

I'd like to ask: If you use the 85mm for portraits do you shoot wide open? How far back do you need to stand at that f stop. This just fascinates me. All my camera gear has shipped out of state since right after I got the 35mm so I have not had much time to check out a DOF that thin. I'll be reunited with my gear in December, so I can have some fun then.

Thanks!
5D Mark III, Canon A-1, Voigtlander Vito, Tamron SP 15-30 f/2.8 Di VC, 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Helios 58 f/2 (x3), Canon FD 50 f/1.8, 600EX-RT (x7), Streaklight 360ws. Jumping ship to SoNikon any day now.

Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2017, 10:34:38 AM »

I absolutely think can mean to sell it in between the two other 85's, the price alone is proof of that. A new top 85 would be more expensive.

I also wonder why there is no info other than the initial stuff. I'm buying one, but the wait gets crazy long when I have anything to check out while I'm waiting  ;D

That makes sense but I still struggle with something - given the advances that we have seen in lenses over the last decade and combined with the fact it should be easier to make a better corrected 1.4 lens than a 1.2 lens, I think it's a fair bet the new 85 1.4 will be in virtually every sense superior to the old lens - it should have less chromatic aberration, much much faster focus, IS, sharper corners - it strikes me the only real downside will be going from 1.2 to 1.4 but that won't make any visible difference. So all that begs the question - who will buy the 1.2 lens for the higher price? I would expect their sales to collapse.

I read somewhere that the 1.2 is sharper stopped down and the 1.4 is sharper wide open. but how they compare at f1.4 and f2.0 (where I'll be using it) doesn't seem all that clear.

I have no doubt, color, contrast will be better with the 1.4, but what I'm really hoping for is no distortion and a very minimal vignetting. And bokeh is a question still...

Hi Viggo,
I have the 35mm f/1.4L II and the DOF is soooooo shallow (thin?). That is the fastest lens I have and the only one faster than f/2. I can't imagine how shallow the DOF is on an 85 f/1.4. I assume the DOF is even thinner than that of the 35mm.

I'd like to ask: If you use the 85mm for portraits do you shoot wide open? How far back do you need to stand at that f stop. This just fascinates me. All my camera gear has shipped out of state since right after I got the 35mm so I have not had much time to check out a DOF that thin. I'll be reunited with my gear in December, so I can have some fun then.

Thanks!

I mainly shoot wide open and often up close. I’ve shot plenty with the 200 f2 at 1.9 meters, just love it. Kids tend to have less depth in the face, so I don’t have to go that far back to have the nose and both eyes sharp. But I also like to frame quite wide with 85 and 200 wide open :)

1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

James Larsen

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2017, 08:46:44 PM »
I'd personally go with the new 85mm f/1.4 with the IS. I find the IS, new design and build, and better focusing to be bigger advantages then the 1/3 stop of light.

SecureGSM

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2017, 09:03:31 PM »
Viggo,

200mm lens at F2.0 and 1.9 meters to subject will produce DoF of only 5 millimeters in front of the focal plain and 6 millimeters behind. 11 millimeters total DoF. there is no chance in getting anything in focus with such a thin DoF unless you shoot _flat_ subject.



I mainly shoot wide open and often up close. I’ve shot plenty with the 200 f2 at 1.9 meters, just love it. Kids tend to have less depth in the face, so I don’t have to go that far back to have the nose and both eyes sharp. But I also like to frame quite wide with 85 and 200 wide open :)

Viggo

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2017, 04:17:51 AM »
Viggo,

200mm lens at F2.0 and 1.9 meters to subject will produce DoF of only 5 millimeters in front of the focal plain and 6 millimeters behind. 11 millimeters total DoF. there is no chance in getting anything in focus with such a thin DoF unless you shoot _flat_ subject.



I mainly shoot wide open and often up close. I’ve shot plenty with the 200 f2 at 1.9 meters, just love it. Kids tend to have less depth in the face, so I don’t have to go that far back to have the nose and both eyes sharp. But I also like to frame quite wide with 85 and 200 wide open :)

«Anything”, isn’t quite right though. 1,1 cm dof is plenty for me. But at that distance I don’t shoot traditional portraits either. Same thing with the Zeiss 100 f2 at “macro-distances” it’s very unique, perhaps not for everybody, but I don’t shoot for everybody  ;D
1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2017, 04:17:51 AM »

SecureGSM

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2017, 04:27:28 AM »
got it. makes sense then :)

it’s very unique, perhaps not for everybody, but I don’t shoot for everybody  ;D

Hector1970

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2017, 05:17:24 AM »
The 85mm 1.4 I'm sure is a great lens but it will never be special.
The 1.2 is harder to use, slow focusing etc but when it's good it's special.
It's such a specialised focal length.
If you want a good 85mm lens buy a 70-200mm F2.8 - it's more flexible.
If you want something special buy the 1.2 (but it will frustrated from time to time).

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Re: 85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2017, 05:17:24 AM »