August 21, 2017, 08:11:28 PM

Author Topic: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]  (Read 58865 times)

BillB

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #270 on: June 19, 2017, 12:34:57 PM »
With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that it will have it, and that will make quite a few people happy.

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #270 on: June 19, 2017, 12:34:57 PM »

LonelyBoy

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #271 on: June 19, 2017, 12:36:20 PM »
They just had a sale on the D750, and most retailers were sold out and on backorder. Sure, the D750 is a major flop...

So, did you buy one?  Or are you still just full of talk?

Zealots and fanatics ... cannot be reasoned with. Up is down, and down is up. They see whatever they want.

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magarity

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #272 on: June 19, 2017, 12:43:20 PM »
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.  :o
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #273 on: June 19, 2017, 12:43:41 PM »
With DPAF -- Does this mean the 6D2 will do active autofocusing during video like the 80D?

Don't know for sure, but my guess is that it will have it, and that will make quite a few people happy.

"Yes, people who shoot video in the stone age, aka 1080p, will be very happy."

Sincerely,

'K'


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Antono Refa

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #274 on: June 19, 2017, 12:49:47 PM »
Hope that makes my point clear.

Clear as mud. I get the sense you are trying to argue a point, but I'm not sure what the point is.

My point is: assuming memory cards (from reputable companies, etc) are reliable, and considering available memory card sizes, one would have a pause in action which

1) would be long enough to allow the photographer to switch cards

2) would happen before the card is full

allowing the photographer to work with just one memory card slot. This means dual slots are required only if you think failure of a single memory card is a real possibility.

My understanding is you look for that pause after photos have spilled over to the CF card. My (unrealistic?) expectation is for you to be able to find one before photos spill over to the CF card.

Mikehit

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #275 on: June 19, 2017, 12:55:05 PM »
I find it funny, that many people complain about no 4K but on the other side even more seem to have a need to "defend" Canon for not implementing it.

I for one am not defending them, I am simply rationalising why they did not

If it's a pure marketing move, then it raises the question why not implement a feature that doesn't cost that much more and is on the height of technology which already has moved on further... just to protect "higher" product lines? I mean... if it's really not that much of a deal to implement it, that's just a stupid move.

If that is wrong and it would cost a significant amount of money to implement 4K (better heat dissipation capabilities, more CPU power etc), then I can see why they didn't implement it - although one might bring up the price point and that the margin for Canon is definitely high enough to make a bargain.

Your comment makes sense if anyone (just anyone) makes a FF 4k camera. No-one does. Rationalise that....


Well, as it seems it has not been implemented for whatever reasons and I assume a lot have expected it and the rant about it as well.
Still a great camera, but again - features that don't cost a lot (or are as easy implemented as being left out) should come to any camera body, because that's what is considered state of the art in terms of today's standard. If marketing is about cutting the standard down to protect overprized lines that offer such features, then it would just suck  ;)


What 'standard'? The vocal minority expect Canon to install 4k to a camera, and cut their margins in doing so, so it can challenge a competitor that doesn't even exist!!
Please explain that to me.


ahsanford

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #276 on: June 19, 2017, 12:56:51 PM »
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.  :o
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.

Far be it from me to defend a position I don't care about as I am no pro and I never use both slots on my 5D3, but...

I believe the argument for two cards is that a single card slot camera -- either through a camera problem or much more likely a card failure -- could lose an entire day's work that cannot be reshot (weddings immediately come to mind).  Lawsuits, scorched earth bridezilla, and all that a failed card could bring about might be insured against with second card slot on board.

In that sense, with a single slot 6D2, Canon is effectively positioning 'data peace of mind' as a premium feature and not a responsibility to deliver to its customers.  Somewhere in the product line, Canon logically needs to pick where you get one vs. where you get two.  Many would argue (not necessarily me) that a $2k rig should be above the single card relegation line.

You might call it nerfing or 'product portfolio by deliberate feature omission', but Canon sees it as a way to keep its costs down / margins up.  That's business.

I won't lose a wink of sleep over this, but that's my guess why some folks are bent out of shape at this rumor.  In short, their priorities are not ours.  Let them stew about this injustice, I say  ::) -- it's a free internet.

- A

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #276 on: June 19, 2017, 12:56:51 PM »

Famateur

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #277 on: June 19, 2017, 01:13:26 PM »
K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh?

You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I wonder, though, if you've ever used DPAF in conjunction with an articulating touch screen. For how quickly you dismissed those features in your comparison, my guess is that the answer is no. For many like me, they are significant and compelling features that we don't want to give up. It was a lack of these two features that caused me to wait for a 6DII instead of getting the 6D. I'm glad I did, because now Canon has delivered pretty much everything I want in an entry-level full-frame camera.

Some thoughts on product segmentation and the value proposition:

A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.

Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D. It was widely lauded by forum-dwellers and YouTubers, but it had significant issues and was quickly replaced by the D610. Nikon saw an opportunity to introduce a product positioned between the D610 and D800/810 and came up with the D750.

There was, and still is, no direct product segment in Canon's line-up to compete with the D750.

I was excited by that D750 announcement -- not because I was tempted to switch, but because it was the first full-frame camera with non-fixed LCD, and I knew that if it was successful, we'd probably see one in the 6DII. Thankfully, the D750 was a great camera and was reasonably successful. Quite good news for Canon shooters.

The problem, though, with comparing it to the 6DII is that they are not and never were intended to be direct competitors. You're comparing a 2014 camera...that was positioned in a higher product tier:

D800/810 competes with 5D series
D750 competes with...hmm...nothing
D610 competes with 6D series

I think I get your point, though -- it's about what you get for your money that makes it compelling...to you. Why spend $2K for a 6DII when you could spend less on a D750, or you could buy a used 5DIII?

For me, I see a bunch of good reasons why I'd spend more for the 6DII than less for the D750:

1. I get 45 cross-type AF points instead of 15.
2. I get a fully articulating screen instead of tilt only.
3. I get touch screen instead of no touch screen.
4. I get DPAF over focus hunting.
5. I get Canon colors from the sensor.
6. I get Canon menus and ergonomics.
7. I get Bluetooth and NFC.
8. I keep my L lenses.
9. I get Canon reliability.
10. I get Canon support.

I would not trade the above for an extra card slot or a negligible difference in dynamic range. I would, in fact, pay more than a D750 would cost just to have the above.

Why not a used 5DIII? The DPAF and articulating screen are that important to me. Plus, the 6DII will likely have a better sensor than the 5DIII, and sensor is the only reason I'm moving up from my 70D in the first place.

Simply put, the 6DII is a worthwhile upgrade for me. It has pretty much everything I'm wanting for a body in this tier. Nikon could release a D760 (still a higher-tier product) that's better, or even a D610 successor that's better, and I won't give a hoot because I'll be happily shooting a camera that meets my needs for an amount I was willing to pay.

The above is called a value proposition. This one applies to me and can only be defined by me. Yours is different and can only be defined by you. Just understand that while YOU see the D750 as a better body for less money, others see it very differently. That doesn't make them apologists or fanatics or fools-settling-for-less-at-higher-cost.

Canon's job, as a business, is to get a feel for what the value proposition looks like to as many people as possible in its target market segment, and then build the product (and at a price) that satisfies it. Given it's track record and position in the industry, it seems Canon is particularly good at it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 01:23:12 PM by Famateur »

smr

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #278 on: June 19, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »
As long as it's got 6fps at least I'll be upgrading, it's exactly the specs then that I was hoping for, 45 all cross type, FF Camera, awesome new sensor and dynamic range, it's going to be an absolutely huge upgrade for me from my 700D. Can't wait.

privatebydesign

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #279 on: June 19, 2017, 01:31:19 PM »
One card slot on a $2k camera is a deal killer for me.  :o
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. SDXC come in up to 512GB in a single card. I know event photographers can take a lot of pictures in a day but nobody's finger can fill a half TB without a break.

Far be it from me to defend a position I don't care about as I am no pro and I never use both slots on my 5D3, but...

I believe the argument for two cards is that a single card slot camera -- either through a camera problem or much more likely a card failure -- could lose an entire day's work that cannot be reshot (weddings immediately come to mind).  Lawsuits, scorched earth bridezilla, and all that a failed card could bring about might be insured against with second card slot on board.

In that sense, with a single slot 6D2, Canon is effectively positioning 'data peace of mind' as a premium feature and not a responsibility to deliver to its customers.  Somewhere in the product line, Canon logically needs to pick where you get one vs. where you get two.  Many would argue (not necessarily me) that a $2k rig should be above the single card relegation line.

You might call it nerfing or 'product portfolio by deliberate feature omission', but Canon sees it as a way to keep its costs down / margins up.  That's business.

I won't lose a wink of sleep over this, but that's my guess why some folks are bent out of shape at this rumor.  In short, their priorities are not ours.  Let them stew about this injustice, I say  ::) -- it's a free internet.

- A

And I don't.

I believe twin slots is a marketing device designed to ease the move up the range. If it was for the reason of data backup then the slots would be the same and there would be no penalty or feature restriction if you mirror information to both at the same time, i.e. actually make a 'backup'. But that is not how Canon have ever implemented dual card slots, they do it seemingly with more a mind to easing the transition up the range for people with cards from 'lower' specced cameras.

Even the 1DX MkII loses features to it's second slot. Nikon on the other hand do make true dual slot cameras where both slots take the same media and there are no limitations when duplicating, however you can't shoot tethered and to card with a Nikon, something I do regularly.

Canon's implementation of dual slots does not allow for "data peace of mind" and any pro who's contract doesn't limit liability for technical and other 'unforeseeable' issues to costs only is a fool.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

wildwalker

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #280 on: June 19, 2017, 01:33:23 PM »
K, it seems pretty clear that you would choose the D750 over the 6DII if both were placed in front of you. Fair enough. I say, go for it, and enjoy taking photographs and videos. Maybe just stop tossing out assumptions and pejoratives at those who have a different opinion, eh?

You've compared the specs of the D750 and the (rumored) specs of the 6DII and concluded that the D750 from 2014 is comparable or even superior, and with a lower price, is the no-brainer choice, which makes Canon look foolish and out-of-touch.

You're entitled to your opinion.

I wonder, though, if you've ever used DPAF in conjunction with an articulating touch screen. For how quickly you dismissed those features in your comparison, my guess is that the answer is no. For many like me, they are significant and compelling features that we don't want to give up. It was a lack of these two features that caused me to wait for a 6DII instead of getting the 6D. I'm glad I did, because now Canon has delivered pretty much everything I want in an entry-level full-frame camera.

Some thoughts on product segmentation and the value proposition:

A few years ago, if you wanted a Canon full-frame camera, you could choose between the 5D series and the 1D series. If you wanted a Nikon full-frame, you could choose between the D800/810 and the D4. Canon saw an opportunity for an entry-level full-frame camera and introduced the 6D. It was widely panned by forum-dwellers and YouTubers for it's weak spec sheet, but it was ultimately a very successful product for Canon.

Nikon introduced the D600 as its response and direct competitor to the 6D. It was widely lauded by forum-dwellers and YouTubers, but it had significant issues and was quickly replaced by the D610. Nikon saw an opportunity to introduce a product positioned between the D610 and D800/810 and came up with the D750.

There was, and still is, no direct product segment in Canon's line-up to compete with the D750.

I was excited by that D750 announcement -- not because I was tempted to switch, but because it was the first full-frame camera with non-fixed LCD, and I knew that if it was successful, we'd probably see one in the 6DII. Thankfully, the D750 was a great camera and was reasonably successful. Quite good news for Canon shooters.

The problem, though, with comparing it to the 6DII is that they are not and never were intended to be direct competitors. You're comparing a 2014 camera...that was positioned in a higher product tier:

D800/810 competes with 5D series
D750 competes with...hmm...nothing
D610 competes with 6D series

I think I get your point, though -- it's about what you get for your money that makes it compelling...to you. Why spend $2K for a 6DII when you could spend less on a D750, or you could buy a used 5DIII?

For me, I see a bunch of good reasons why I'd spend more for the 6DII than less for the D750:

1. I get 45 cross-type AF points instead of 15.
2. I get a fully articulating screen instead of tilt only.
3. I get touch screen instead of no touch screen.
4. I get DPAF over focus hunting.
5. I get Canon colors from the sensor.
6. I get Canon menus and ergonomics.
7. I get Bluetooth and NFC.
8. I keep my L lenses.
9. I get Canon reliability.
10. I get Canon support.

I would not trade the above for an extra card slot or a negligible difference in dynamic range. I would, in fact, pay more than a D750 would cost just to have the above.

Why not a used 5DIII? The DPAF and articulating screen are that important to me. Plus, the 6DII will likely have a better sensor than the 5DIII, and sensor is the only reason I'm moving up from my 70D in the first place.

Simply put, the 6DII is a worthwhile upgrade for me. It has pretty much everything I'm wanting for a body in this tier. Nikon could release a D760 (still a higher-tier product) that's better, or even a D610 successor that's better, and I won't give a hoot because I'll be happily shooting a camera that meets my needs for an amount I was willing to pay.

The above is called a value proposition. This one applies to me and can only be defined by me. Yours is different and can only be defined by you. Just understand that while YOU see the D750 as a better body for less money, others see it very differently. That doesn't make them apologists or fanatics or fools-settling-for-less-at-higher-cost.

Canon's job, as a business, is to get a feel for what the value proposition looks like to as many people as possible in its target market segment, and then build the product (and at a price) that satisfies it. Given it's track record and position in the industry, it seems Canon is particularly good at it.

Nice post. My last (FF) purchase was the 5DMk2, I have 3 L series lenses that I love using. The 17-40 F4L, the 100-400 L and the 85mm F1.2 L. As I have this glass I want to stay Canon. The 6D Mk2 ticks the right boxes for me.

Better AF (45 Cross Points) the 5DMk2 focusing is ho-hum, its pretty poor, even compared to my 30D!
Better Dynamic Range (I hope the 6DMk2 outperforms my 8 year old 5DMk2)
Better ISO noise handling

Tilty screen, erm, well my 700D has that, and i use that as my travel camera which I have a few great EF-S lenses for (the 10-18 is brilliant, nifty fifty of course and the 55-250, much better now with IS).

DPAF, well I might shoot some video, but I hardly ever do. I guess I won't see the benefit of DPAF in stills, unless I use live view to shoot? which I won't if I am not using a tripod. My mostly landscape and architecture subjects don't need super fast focusing or xxx fps anyway.

I want to replace my 5DMk2 mostly because of age, I will still use it of course, but safe in the knowledge I have a capable partner for it. I think the 6DMk2 will become my main body.

Can't wait ;)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #281 on: June 19, 2017, 01:39:35 PM »
I believe twin slots is a marketing device designed to ease the move up the range. If it was for the reason of data backup then the slots would be the same and there would be no penalty or feature restriction if you mirror information to both at the same time, i.e. actually make a 'backup'. But that is not how Canon have ever implemented dual card slots, they do it seemingly with more a mind to easing the transition up the range for people with cards from 'lower' specced cameras.

Even the 1DX MkII loses features to it's second slot. Nikon on the other hand do make true dual slot cameras where both slots take the same media and there are no limitations when duplicating, however you can't shoot tethered and to card with a Nikon, something I do regularly.

Canon's implementation of dual slots does not allow for "data peace of mind" and any pro who's contract doesn't limit liability for technical and other 'unforeseeable' issues to costs only is a fool.

I wouldn't say 'not ever'...the 1D X has two identical CF card slots, and thus I have "data peace of mind."
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scrup

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #282 on: June 19, 2017, 01:52:34 PM »
No 4K?

Does that mean no 4K in the next upgrade of crop cameras as well unless you get a 7Diii?

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #282 on: June 19, 2017, 01:52:34 PM »

AdjustedInCamera

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #283 on: June 19, 2017, 02:06:19 PM »
How long before we see sample pictures? And any word on new software for it, like in early rumors?

(Also, what happened to the new gold box it was supposed to come in?)


ahsanford

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #284 on: June 19, 2017, 02:29:46 PM »
No 4K?

Does that mean no 4K in the next upgrade of crop cameras as well unless you get a 7Diii?

That's unrelated to this announcement as a 6D2 is not categorically 'higher' in feature set vs. some crop models, but it's an interesting question.

Off the cuff?  90D.

But it's really just a question of which 'nicer' rig comes out next -- 90D, 7D3 or 5DS2.  The timing is somewhat close, actually:

Date 80D was released:  3/24/16
##D product line rough refresh timing:  Medium length, about 3 years
Best guess of a 90D date:  6/24/19

Date 7D2 was released:  11/1/2014
7D# product line rough refresh timing:  Long, about 5 years
Best guess of a 7D3 date:  11/1/2019

Date 5DS was released:  6/15/2015
5DS product line rough refresh timing:  None.  First offering.
5D# product line rough refresh timing (as a reference):  Long.  4-5 years.
Best guess of a 5DS2 date:  End of 2019?

Leaving out a new product line being released altogether (mirrorless?) or new Cinema/Camcorder-y offerings, I'd say the next rig to get 4K will be the 90D.

I could very well be wrong, though.  A boatload of new Rebels may come out by then.

- A
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 11:17:42 AM by ahsanford »

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Re: Pricing & More Information About the EOS 6D Mark II [CR3]
« Reply #284 on: June 19, 2017, 02:29:46 PM »