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Author Topic: I Need a Flash  (Read 6080 times)

Positron

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2012, 07:13:23 PM »
If you don't need TTL then the YN560 (different from the 565 mentioned above) is an amazing choice for about $70. They are serious workhorses with pretty much everything you need (unless you need TTL, of course), and pretty much the only thing I can fault them on is long recharge at full power. At anything below full power it's a non-issue. Very comparable to a 430EX II in what you can do with it, for about 1/3 the price.

Does the YN560 support eTTL2 and being a wireless slave from the on board controllers?

No, they don't. As far as I know, optical slave/poverty wizards only.

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2012, 07:13:23 PM »

SPG

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2012, 08:30:21 PM »
Why the long cord when the body has inbuilt wireless?

Because it's not actually wireless, but IR which doesn't work very well under sunlight. or without line of sight. or really work that well in general.
IR is ok in a pinch, but it's really not reliable or versatile enough for everyday use.

bonedaddy.p7

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2012, 09:09:01 PM »
these ones willl do high speed sync
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissin-Speedlite-Di866-Mark-II-Flash-Canon-Digital-Camera-NEW-/280775058735?pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item415f7f652f
but the price is getting up there I think for me i would go to a 430exii over these at this price

I've been looking to get an external flash or 3 as well, and the Nissin Di866MK2 looks pretty nice but I'm a bit puzzled why I don't see more about them, how do they stack up against the 580EXII? I was thinking of having one for on camera and 2 off camera and looking to save as much money while maintaining a decent level of quality and have some flexibility to have some fun with light in the woods at night or to have some..ummm...light light for controlling shots in shadows where a reflector won't just give me enough but I'm not somewhere I can take a full studio light (IE, no AC power)
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wickidwombat

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2012, 09:17:12 PM »
with the cost of the nissins i just decided that the risk of wasting that much money wasnt worth it so just got 580exii s either new or near new second hand if i can pick them up for a good price. i'm always on the lookout for good condition slightly used ones second hand. but they tend to get bid up to silly prices on ebay. might as well buy new ones from digital rev with the prices used ones go for on ebay. I'm also on the lookout for cheap 430exii but same deal often for a few bucks more you can get new ones from reputable ebay sellers
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RC

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 01:06:01 AM »
I would seriously reconsider getting a 580 EXII even if you have to wait longer or buy one used.  I'm not a flash expert but I've been doing lots of studying and experimenting with flash and have found the 580 to be wonderful not only for its higher GN and features but mainly because of its wireless master function (I have 1 - 580 and 2 - 430s). 

My only body is a 7D which can act as a wireless master but having the option for an off camera master via an extra long ETTL cord makes wireless flash almost limitless.   With horse photography (assuming you have horses in the horse barn) I can only image the need for an additional flash and a way to trigger it.

Assuming you have the funds or can save up or buy used,  these 3 items will do wonders and open up a whole new world of photography:

- 580 EX
- Extra long ETTL cord (go for the 33 footer)
http://ocfgear.com/cords-for-canon-ettl/ettl-cord-extra-long/
- Speedliter's Handbook: Learning to Craft Light with Canon Speedlites
http://www.amazon.com/Speedliters-Handbook-Learning-Craft-Speedlites/dp/032171105X/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2TYPNX0PC1DJI&colid=3FF643HN68I62

Why the long cord when the body has inbuilt wireless?

Lots and lots of reasons.  I didn't realize how valuable this was until I started playing around with wireless flash   The key is line of sight between your master and remote.  Using your camera as the master really limits your options as where the slave units can be placed.  Having the ability to move your master and change angles opens up all kinds of options as to where you place your slaves

For example:
- Firing a flash behind your subject that is out of the line of sight of your camera
- Firing a flash above, behind or anywhere you don't have line of sight
- Shooting into the sun make wireless flash very infective due to signal deterioration.   Simply position your master so the sun is behind the master and you have restored effective out door wireless flash
- Maybe you have a couple of slaves outside a window which need to be triggered

The list goes on, if you are serious or just want to learn more, get Syl Arena's book

briansquibb

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2012, 01:24:39 AM »
If you don't need TTL then the YN560 (different from the 565 mentioned above) is an amazing choice for about $70. They are serious workhorses with pretty much everything you need (unless you need TTL, of course), and pretty much the only thing I can fault them on is long recharge at full power. At anything below full power it's a non-issue. Very comparable to a 430EX II in what you can do with it, for about 1/3 the price.

Does the YN560 support eTTL2 and being a wireless slave from the on board controllers?
i dont think so that was the major complaint with it they are dirt cheap though and if used in manual with some poverty wizards can get some great results for not alot of money for people starting out with strobe

It is hard work to get the lighting right with 3 or 4 flash on eTTL - I am not sure that I would have the patience to try it on manual. I guess fine tuning would be done by adjusting distances.

At the moment I am doing an event where people are dressed in period costume from the 19th century. The clothes are light and dark, shiny and matt. I have a room set up as a studio and I can do a person in about 5-10 minutes as eTTL makes the fine tuning adjustments for me. Not sure that in manual that I would get the productivity.

Here is an example of a 3 flash setup simulating someone by a window which is on the left. In reality the (very small) window is on the right and it gave very low light levels.




wickidwombat

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2012, 02:24:20 AM »
If you don't need TTL then the YN560 (different from the 565 mentioned above) is an amazing choice for about $70. They are serious workhorses with pretty much everything you need (unless you need TTL, of course), and pretty much the only thing I can fault them on is long recharge at full power. At anything below full power it's a non-issue. Very comparable to a 430EX II in what you can do with it, for about 1/3 the price.

Does the YN560 support eTTL2 and being a wireless slave from the on board controllers?
i dont think so that was the major complaint with it they are dirt cheap though and if used in manual with some poverty wizards can get some great results for not alot of money for people starting out with strobe

It is hard work to get the lighting right with 3 or 4 flash on eTTL - I am not sure that I would have the patience to try it on manual. I guess fine tuning would be done by adjusting distances.

At the moment I am doing an event where people are dressed in period costume from the 19th century. The clothes are light and dark, shiny and matt. I have a room set up as a studio and I can do a person in about 5-10 minutes as eTTL makes the fine tuning adjustments for me. Not sure that in manual that I would get the productivity.

Here is an example of a 3 flash setup simulating someone by a window which is on the left. In reality the (very small) window is on the right and it gave very low light levels.
actually i started out with manual I find it easier actually to do the calcs in my head to just change the power by moving the flash closer or further away or bumping power up or down. Once you understand how it all works together its pretty easy really and just shoot a bunch of test shots and move stuff around, shoot some more and look at how things change, you will be amazed how much you can learn with a awilling model and a few hours just moving the lighting around to create different effects
ETTL actually complicates thing more because all the flashes take each other into account.
Sometimes its easier to just switch it all back to manual and have total control over each flash
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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2012, 02:24:20 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2012, 01:03:07 PM »

actually i started out with manual I find it easier actually to do the calcs in my head to just change the power by moving the flash closer or further away or bumping power up or down. Once you understand how it all works together its pretty easy really and just shoot a bunch of test shots and move stuff around, shoot some more and look at how things change, you will be amazed how much you can learn with a awilling model and a few hours just moving the lighting around to create different effects
ETTL actually complicates thing more because all the flashes take each other into account.
Sometimes its easier to just switch it all back to manual and have total control over each flash

Significant moving of the flash impacts the quality of the light.

Few hours? I did a new lighting set in 15minutes this morning.

The whole point of eTTL is that they balance all the time - you only have to get them in the right place and they take care of the rest :))


7enderbender

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2012, 02:51:56 PM »
A few options here without giving up future compatibly within wireless and E-TTL and High Speed Sync:

a) just get a used 580EXII once you can afford it
b) look for the previous model (580EX or maybe even 550EX)
c) same as above for the 430EX series - it's a good flash for most uses, can later serve as a slave; only difference: can't be a Master and the buttons are not as nice as on the 580. I find the exposures actually to be a little more consistent than on my 580.
d) almost exactly the same functionality as the 580EXII but a little cheaper: Metz 58-AF2.

The Metz even has a few little features that are better while maintaining all key important elements (ETTL, HSS, Master and Slave option, etc), e.g the charge confirm beep and that it can be put in a special "group" as the master other than group A. The reason why I decided to buy a 580 instead (even though I've otherwise been a long-time Metz user): the build quality of the Canon appears a little better - but I'm still thinking about adding one of those. Some people don't like the menu - but then again the Canon menu is not very lovable either, is it?

 
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briansquibb

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2012, 04:20:21 PM »
A few options here without giving up future compatibly within wireless and E-TTL and High Speed Sync:

a) just get a used 580EXII once you can afford it
b) look for the previous model (580EX or maybe even 550EX)
c) same as above for the 430EX series - it's a good flash for most uses, can later serve as a slave; only difference: can't be a Master and the buttons are not as nice as on the 580. I find the exposures actually to be a little more consistent than on my 580.
d) almost exactly the same functionality as the 580EXII but a little cheaper: Metz 58-AF2.

The Metz even has a few little features that are better while maintaining all key important elements (ETTL, HSS, Master and Slave option, etc), e.g the charge confirm beep and that it can be put in a special "group" as the master other than group A. The reason why I decided to buy a 580 instead (even though I've otherwise been a long-time Metz user): the build quality of the Canon appears a little better - but I'm still thinking about adding one of those. Some people don't like the menu - but then again the Canon menu is not very lovable either, is it?

+1 for option b

I have 1 x 580EXII, 4 x 580EX and 1x 430EXII all bought used.

RC

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2012, 04:23:14 PM »
To simplify it, use ETTL with moving subjects and manual with static subjects.  Of course everything has an exception.

briansquibb

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2012, 05:01:05 PM »
To simplify it, use ETTL with moving subjects and manual with static subjects.  Of course everything has an exception.

... and eTTL with casual models as they cant hold the pose

wickidwombat

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2012, 03:01:44 AM »

actually i started out with manual I find it easier actually to do the calcs in my head to just change the power by moving the flash closer or further away or bumping power up or down. Once you understand how it all works together its pretty easy really and just shoot a bunch of test shots and move stuff around, shoot some more and look at how things change, you will be amazed how much you can learn with a awilling model and a few hours just moving the lighting around to create different effects
ETTL actually complicates thing more because all the flashes take each other into account.
Sometimes its easier to just switch it all back to manual and have total control over each flash

Significant moving of the flash impacts the quality of the light.

Few hours? I did a new lighting set in 15minutes this morning.

The whole point of eTTL is that they balance all the time - you only have to get them in the right place and they take care of the rest :))
sorry i wasnt clear enough i didnt mean hours each time it's pretty much a  once or twice thing wher eyou jusr move stuff around and play with the light , doesnt take long to work out what works and what doesn't as far as manual setups go. Learning manual lighting is fun and once you get a feel for it its pretty strait forward. And for someone just starting out some manual flashes and cheap poverty wizards are a good place to start without dropping heaps of cash
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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2012, 03:01:44 AM »

briansquibb

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2012, 03:16:37 AM »

sorry i wasnt clear enough i didnt mean hours each time it's pretty much a  once or twice thing wher eyou jusr move stuff around and play with the light , doesnt take long to work out what works and what doesn't as far as manual setups go. Learning manual lighting is fun and once you get a feel for it its pretty strait forward. And for someone just starting out some manual flashes and cheap poverty wizards are a good place to start without dropping heaps of cash

 8) 8) 8)

Will stay with eTTL and my PW  ;D

Am off to a graveyard to shoot some Dickens reenactment shots of Great Expectations with the first meeting of Pip and Magwitch. So it will be time to hide speedlights behind gravestones and fire by wireless
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:18:20 AM by briansquibb »

MazV-L

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 03:50:04 AM »
In my experience, the Canon speedlites are far superior to the YN flashes, I bought one (can't remember model, but was abt size of 430ex) some time ago when I only had the 430ex(Au$120 2nd hand) tried to use it off camera with ST-E2, the YN is far inferior at picking up the IR( it takes forever to find a place/angle that it will work off-camera) than the Canons and just gives a cheap and nasty impression, I wasn't happy with it at all so I gave it away, and bought a 2nd hand 550ex(abt Au$70, and 2x 580exii in as new condition for abt $350 each) and I still have my original 430ex. 550ex is a bit bulky but otherwise I have no complaints regarding my Canon speedlites and would recommend them :)

The YN didn't have an LCD like the Canon's do either and less functions.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 03:54:38 AM by MazV-L »

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Re: I Need a Flash
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2012, 03:50:04 AM »