December 17, 2017, 01:35:30 AM

Author Topic: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?  (Read 13244 times)

Mikehit

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2017, 03:04:10 AM »

Edit:
By the way: I can remember a wedding where a video team was entering the dance floor with LEDs on and the dance floor was empty within 10 seconds. And I feel flashes almost as annoying as that in such situations.
Maybe they could have done so during the wedding waltz when only the couple was dancing but even then too much light is killing the mood. To me these are all available light shots.
Having the brides white dress with all that disco lights on it... much better than a "perfectly" lit video sequence.
I was able to deliver some great memories to several of my friends.

+1
There is this continual idea that your average customer cares about noise in photos. They don't. As long as it is a good image of a great occasion, and it is better than Uncle Harrys' photos taken with a cameraphone, that is all they want - the memory.

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2017, 03:04:10 AM »

john kriegsmann

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2017, 11:44:58 AM »
For my money I would buy a new Nikon D750. You can buy one at BH with a professional 24-120 f4 lens for $2,300. For the price of the new Canon Mk4 (3299) you could add a second professional Nikon lens. Nikon is blowing Canon out of the water. Their new 850 is class leading, the only DSLR truly in Medium Format territory recently scored a 100 DXO score.

dak723

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2017, 01:06:49 PM »

Edit:
By the way: I can remember a wedding where a video team was entering the dance floor with LEDs on and the dance floor was empty within 10 seconds. And I feel flashes almost as annoying as that in such situations.
Maybe they could have done so during the wedding waltz when only the couple was dancing but even then too much light is killing the mood. To me these are all available light shots.
Having the brides white dress with all that disco lights on it... much better than a "perfectly" lit video sequence.
I was able to deliver some great memories to several of my friends.

+1
There is this continual idea that your average customer cares about noise in photos. They don't. As long as it is a good image of a great occasion, and it is better than Uncle Harrys' photos taken with a cameraphone, that is all they want - the memory.

It is not just the average customer who doesn't care about noise.  And there is a great deal of difference between a photographer who cares about noise and someone who is obsessed with it.  Most folks on this forum fall into the latter category, in my opinion.  As someone who takes photos for more than the memory, and sells occasionally, I don't fret over some noise, and it is possibly the least important thing on my checklist of what makes a photo work. 

The condescending attitude that permeates his forum regarding folks that don't obsess about DR and noise is really insulting.  We are not just "snapshot" shooters or folks just slightly removed from camera phone photo-takers. I would strongly suggest to those who think you need to have little or no noise - and the most DR - to have a quality photo, to open their minds to the idea that subject, composition, lighting, mood, atmosphere are all more important aspects of what constitutes a good photo.

greger

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2017, 03:42:37 PM »
Why are you wasting time asking other people’s opinion! I would be pulling the trigger on getting the 5D l V immediately. Ask questions later kinda situation. I don’t think anyone would regret owning the latest 5D Camera. Dual card slots are worth the cost of peace of mind.
Canon 7D | EFS 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM - EF 50mm f/1.8 Mark l - EF 100mm f/2.8 IS USM Macro - EF 70-200mm   f/4 L IS USM- EF 100-400    f4.5-5.6 IS USM - 1.4 ll and 2X ll Extenders

Rejay14

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2017, 09:06:33 PM »
Disregard people that are telling you to change brands. That is ridiculous. You have invested in a camera system and you'll do nothing but lose money if you change.

The 5D3 is a perfectly capable camera. Get another one, used/refurbished, rock it and expand your business. I used a Mark 3 for years. I now have a 1DXII and a 5D4, because I could afford it. The 5D3 was limiting me in a minute way, but I could have lasted 4 more years with it. It's an amazing body. Your dual card argument is valid.

Keep loyal to the system that you use. The Canon/Nikon argument is the same as the Ford/Chevy argument. Stick with the one that you have and enjoy.

Jeff

Rejay14

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2017, 09:31:43 PM »
I can't imagine any wedding situation where you'd need to be hitting ISO 25600 unless you have some very slow lenses and/or are picking some needlessly high shutter speeds; I've shot death metal concerts—which are a lot darker and more energetic than any wedding!—with older Canon cameras never going above ISO 3200.

I took pictures at my friend's wedding reception (the party after the ceremony) and I found I was hitting ISO 12800-25600 in some shots. Getting pictures of people dancing in low light isn't extreme or unusual, is it?

That means that you're not using a flash. A $120 Yongnuo will do more for your photography than anything at this point.
Rejay, that sounds like a real expert ::)
A lot of people don't like flashes during the reception, especially when they're on the dance floor.
And when you want to catch the disco light on the dancers a flash isn't the best choice.
But maybe they enjoy your additional strobe lights :P

Reminds me of one of the kindergarten mums that was trying to take pictures of our children's galanty show with a flash ::)

So I can absolutely second scyrene's experiences.

Edit:
By the way: I can remember a wedding where a video team was entering the dance floor with LEDs on and the dance floor was empty within 10 seconds. And I feel flashes almost as annoying as that in such situations.
Maybe they could have done so during the wedding waltz when only the couple was dancing but even then too much light is killing the mood. To me these are all available light shots.
Having the brides white dress with all that disco lights on it... much better than a "perfectly" lit video sequence.
I was able to deliver some great memories to several of my friends.

Well Maxi.. I would think that a bounced flash at iso 3200 would barely be noticeable to ANYONE, but to each his own. I'll just keep on making 6 figures and ignoring your opinion if it's ok with you.

BTW: What's your expert website address? mine is PrestigePhotoPro.com if you would like to bash some more.

SecureGSM

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 09:43:15 PM »
how much one is making statement is utterly irrelevant and does not prove anything besides it reveals ethical issues associated with one's personality.


 

Well Maxi.. I would think that a bounced flash at iso 3200 would barely be noticeable to ANYONE, but to each his own. I'll just keep on making 6 figures and ignoring your opinion if it's ok with you.

BTW: What's your expert website address? mine is PrestigePhotoPro.com if you would like to bash some more.

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 09:43:15 PM »

Rejay14

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2017, 09:54:47 PM »
I posted the reply based on the comment about "expert". I agree, I am no expert, but I am a reasonable facsimile of an ok camera button pusher guy

MrFotoFool

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2017, 01:28:58 AM »
Very recently I traded in my 5D3 and 1D4 to get a 5D4. I just tested it out a week ago at San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. The autofocus tracking is amazing - much better than my 5D3 and at least as good if not better than my 1D4. I realize zoo photography is not wedding photography, but it still involves fast tracking of moving subjects. I was also amazed at the ability to lock focus in extremely low light. I could not be happier and I think you will love the 5D4. I also did one shot indoors at iso 12,800 that looks pretty good. I have not tried higher, but that is the highest iso I have ever used on a photo. On my 5D3 I was afraid to go above 3,200.

Luds34

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2017, 08:51:30 AM »
Well Maxi.. I would think that a bounced flash at iso 3200 would barely be noticeable to ANYONE, but to each his own.

I tend to agree. In really low light I'm a fan of shooting really fast glass (35mm f/1.4) wide open and dragging the shutter to still get the ambiance while bouncing flash from the hot shoe to light the scene and give some color/constrast and shadows at a more reasonable ISO (800 to 3200 depending on the situation). Once you hit ISO 12800+ photos just lose their punch.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 08:55:53 AM by Luds34 »

Luds34

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2017, 08:54:49 AM »
Oh and to the OP, a 5D4 might be a nice upgrade for you. Only you can decide if it is worth the investment. However, I think you'll probably find it will be an incremental improvement and ultimately, there is no "silver bullet" that will alleviate your issues. Wedding photography is some of the most challenging photography and no camera is going to magically capture perfect images for you on every shot.

But best of luck and if you do upgrade please come back and share your experience!

Happy shooting!

jayphotoworks

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2017, 10:44:38 AM »
I've used the GH5, the 5DIV and the A9 this year. Here are some comments not in the order of the OP's question:

1) For stills all of them can record to separate or multiple cards, but only the GH5 and A9 can record video to both cards at the same time in 4K/1080.

2) High ISO performance with modern cameras are very similar, but the 5DIV moved to an on-chip ADC so it will be much closer to modern generation Sony sensors which seems to be the benchmark these days. It will also give you much more latitude to recover unexposed images if needed vs the 5D3 generation of bodies.

3) DPAF is great, but you have to be in live view mode. Going to live view mode will also give you exposure simulation as well which will render the scene approx. how it will appear when captured to card.

4) You will also lose one point of stability if you are shooting at arm's length in live view mode. I used a Zacuto enforcer grip with a Z-Finder on the LCD to shoot the 5DIV in live view mode when capturing movies to regain that lost point of stability. It will however block the screen, so you have to rely on the joystick for AF point adjustment.

5) DPAF AF speed however is not as fast or reliable in difficult conditions as the 5DIV's native OVF/PDAF shooting mode. The camera was really designed from the ground up for OVF shooting vs say the GH5 or A9 which was built from the group up for mirrorless shooting. A different set of priorities.

6) Anti-Flicker on the 5DIV is great for shooting a lot of wedding venues that have a combination of cheap led and fluorescent lights. It is a VERY useful feature which you won't get with a 5D3.

7) Rolling shutter is a big deal on the 5DIV in 4K, so 4K grabs for high action sequences might be problematic and you will probably experience some disappointment with skewed images aka the "Jello effect." I can't find exact timings on the 5DIV, but on comparison tests, the 5DIV is quite a bit slower than the 1DX2.

https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/7057004492/5DIV_vs_1DXII-thumbnail.jpeg

These are also timings from modern cameras for comparison:

A9 FF 20fps  6.68ms
1dx2 1080 60p/120p 6.7ms
1dx2 4K 14.7ms
gh5 15ms
a7r2 4K 19.9ms
c200 4K/1080 16.1ms

Some cameras are faster in 1080 vs 4K. I couldn't find A9 timings in movie mode, but in 20fps 24MP mode, it is 6.68ms. Sony also uses a marketing term "anti-distortion" which apparently corrects jello, but it is probably mainly due to its use of a stacked sensor design.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 10:46:54 AM by jayphotoworks »

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Re: Upgrade to 5D Mark IV or Cheaper Cam for a Wedding Photographer?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2017, 10:44:38 AM »