September 20, 2017, 11:04:12 AM

Author Topic: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR  (Read 123584 times)

LonelyBoy

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #450 on: July 17, 2017, 05:15:53 PM »
So what to do now, i could get 6D2 this friday (21.07) as a special costumer in my shop here, I was waiting for 6D2 so long and now 1 week ago there comes that DR nightmare story or rumor or fact or whatever :(

I don't need 4k or second SD slot and I am ok with that, I did want arti-screen and DP and touch but i was also hoping for sensor with better DR and ISO at least 1 stop better DR - APSC body even rabel's came with new A/D chip on sensor for like 500$ ( in fact every new body, every body in 2017 came with A/D chip on sensor, and all with digic 7 ) so doesn't it make it strange that 2000$, most selling Canon body would be crippled that hard ??

Would you buy it if you have chance like me to have it this friday or would you wait for like 1-2 month or more because this will be hot seller no matter what and if that DR come to be false or some error than it would sell like very hot and I would have to wait for it even longer - what to do, i will go crazy  :o

if some of you have some info or did try it and know that DR is problem or it is not I would be very thankful if you send me a pm because i know about your "disclosure embargo" or whatever it is called..

Stay calm and keep taking images. If you are in a hurry and your retailer has a good return policy, then by all means keep the preorder and try the camera. If you are not in a hurry, have a decent camera today, then I'll suggest patience and wait for reviews...

Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons - it's not a Wii/ Furby/ whatever where there's a supply constraint.  You'll be able to buy it from your choice of retailer from release day for half a decade, probably.  Even assuming it's as awesome as you expect, does it hurt that much to let it simmer a week and see what the early reviews - both professional and forum-based - say?  Unless you had a special event to shoot this weekend, there won't be much of a difference between this weekend and next weekend.  Even if you have something this weekend, you probably wouldn't want to do it on the second day you have a new body.

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #450 on: July 17, 2017, 05:15:53 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #451 on: July 17, 2017, 05:23:26 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons - it's not a Wii/ Furby/ whatever where there's a supply constraint. 

Depends on the product and how much of it's value (to you) is tied to it being the best thing currently available.  If you are a firster or want to maximize how long a product is the best one for your purposes, you buy on day one to maximize the time before it is 'virtually obsoleted' by a replacement/better offering in the same product class. 

This is a better move for products with shorter and more highly predictable lifecycles, like iPhones on a one year model refresh and two-year body design refresh timetable -- but some folks do it for bigger ticket items like camera bodies, computers, cars even.

Shockingly, my 5D3's shutter button continued to work after the 5D4 was announced and I've decided to stick with it until my camera (itself) recognizes the futility of marching onward whilst knowing something better exists.  Surely it will become self-aware and brick itself any day now to free me of its shackles and let me buy a nicer product. ::)

- A

x-vision

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #452 on: July 17, 2017, 05:31:25 PM »
I'm surprised Canon would save a great deal of money by leaving on-chip ADC out of the picture.

Only Canon has the definitive answer for that.

As I said in a previous post, production yields could be a factor.

It's also possible that Canon is saving money by reusing the old 5DS manufacturing lines/equipment (the 5Ds doesn't have on-chip ADCs).

Again, only Canon knows the answer; we can only speculate.

I completely agree with Neuro, though:
Except for a relative small group of buyers that obsess over DR (I'm at the forefront of this group 8) ), most 6DII buyers are unlikely to care.
Think of all users that never do post-processing, for example.

FWIW, I've had my 40D for seven years and I've been lifting shadows just fine.
Now that I have the 80D, I wouldn't go back to a sensor with less DR - but I was quite happy with my 40D while I had it.

LonelyBoy

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #453 on: July 17, 2017, 06:27:02 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons - it's not a Wii/ Furby/ whatever where there's a supply constraint. 

Depends on the product and how much of it's value (to you) is tied to it being the best thing currently available.  If you are a firster or want to maximize how long a product is the best one for your purposes, you buy on day one to maximize the time before it is 'virtually obsoleted' by a replacement/better offering in the same product class. 

This is a better move for products with shorter and more highly predictable lifecycles, like iPhones on a one year model refresh and two-year body design refresh timetable -- but some folks do it for bigger ticket items like camera bodies, computers, cars even.

Shockingly, my 5D3's shutter button continued to work after the 5D4 was announced and I've decided to stick with it until my camera (itself) recognizes the futility of marching onward whilst knowing something better exists.  Surely it will become self-aware and brick itself any day now to free me of its shackles and let me buy a nicer product. ::)

- A

I know they do; I just think it's silly.  Stupid, really.  On the lifespan of a body (what, 4-5 years?), what's a week?  We're talking about, literally, a week.  Is it not worth the money to have it for even one week less of being the "newest" body, or the "current" 6D?  Bah.  Yes, I say stupid.  Having it for an extra week isn't much a payoff for maybe getting something you're disappointed in.

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #454 on: July 17, 2017, 06:35:18 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons - it's not a Wii/ Furby/ whatever where there's a supply constraint. 

Depends on the product and how much of it's value (to you) is tied to it being the best thing currently available.  If you are a firster or want to maximize how long a product is the best one for your purposes, you buy on day one to maximize the time before it is 'virtually obsoleted' by a replacement/better offering in the same product class. 

This is a better move for products with shorter and more highly predictable lifecycles, like iPhones on a one year model refresh and two-year body design refresh timetable -- but some folks do it for bigger ticket items like camera bodies, computers, cars even.

Shockingly, my 5D3's shutter button continued to work after the 5D4 was announced and I've decided to stick with it until my camera (itself) recognizes the futility of marching onward whilst knowing something better exists.  Surely it will become self-aware and brick itself any day now to free me of its shackles and let me buy a nicer product. ::)

- A

I know they do; I just think it's silly.  Stupid, really.  On the lifespan of a body (what, 4-5 years?), what's a week?  We're talking about, literally, a week.  Is it not worth the money to have it for even one week less of being the "newest" body, or the "current" 6D?  Bah.  Yes, I say stupid.  Having it for an extra week isn't much a payoff for maybe getting something you're disappointed in.

You are correct Lonelyboy. I'd never pre-order anything that expensive. "Last week my camera was fine, but next week I just have to have the newest."

I'll never understand that. More money than sense, I guess.

IglooEater

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #455 on: July 17, 2017, 06:50:38 PM »
You are correct Lonelyboy. I'd never pre-order anything that expensive. "Last week my camera was fine, but next week I just have to have the newest."

I'll never understand that. More money than sense, I guess.

I think it's more like, "I've increasingly been wanting to upgrade for 4 years; now I'd really enjoy having it in time to get used to it before going on my bi-annual trip in August."  Which would be more my case. Incidentally, no I have not preordered it. Yet.

LonelyBoy

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #456 on: July 17, 2017, 06:57:38 PM »
You are correct Lonelyboy. I'd never pre-order anything that expensive. "Last week my camera was fine, but next week I just have to have the newest."

I'll never understand that. More money than sense, I guess.

I think it's more like, "I've increasingly been wanting to upgrade for 4 years; now I'd really enjoy having it in time to get used to it before going on my bi-annual trip in August."  Which would be more my case. Incidentally, no I have not preordered it. Yet.

Right.  So you have time to, literally, spend a couple hours over a couple of days reading the reviews to evaluate the purchase before (maybe) going to BB or wherever and buying it?  That's what I'd do in that position.  Then we'll have some actual information, and all of this chatter will be meaningless.  As if it's not already.

It's not like it's going to be sold out.

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #456 on: July 17, 2017, 06:57:38 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #457 on: July 17, 2017, 07:26:56 PM »
You are correct Lonelyboy. I'd never pre-order anything that expensive. "Last week my camera was fine, but next week I just have to have the newest."

I'll never understand that. More money than sense, I guess.

I would pre-order if you (say) completely skipped a buying cycle or you knew a year in advance that this was the rig you wanted and you just needed to confirm [feature X] was onboard.  Tilty-flippy + better AF = an instant sale for a lot of people, I'd wager.

In my case, I own a 5D3 and skipped the 5D4 because I don't think it would improve my decidedly amateur output thus far.  In effect, my camera is not holding me back at all right now, unless I want to convince myself that scorchingly bright daylight landscapes with foreground in shadow should not require any multi-shot compositing or on-lens contrast management (which is an wildly unreasonable expectation).  But should I put in the 'hours in the cockpit' and improve my skills, I could see myself going in on day one for a 5D5 as my next camera.

But this pre-ordering / hedging on FM forum posts / cancelling pre-orders over a (rumored) lack of DR improvement is a bit out there.  It implies all the other improvements in the camera don't matter, i.e. that DR is everything.  If that's the case, go pick up an A7/A9 rig and adapt your Canon glass and be done with it.  I say that out of no disrespect to those with that position so much as a reality check.  If you are a 'one-issue voter' with your body-buying decision tree, go to the company that delivers on that issue at the price point you want to pay.

- A
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 07:50:29 PM by ahsanford »

Jack Douglas

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #458 on: July 17, 2017, 07:40:11 PM »
We're all children at heart with a Christmas mentality! ;)

Jack
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #459 on: July 17, 2017, 08:02:15 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons -

Clearly, you're missing the main reason people preorder the 6DII, or any new Canon product...so they can be the one to start the CR Forum topic, "Post your shots with the _________ product."

 ;D
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privatebydesign

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #460 on: July 17, 2017, 08:10:16 PM »
100% agree. Now you can even simulate shallow DoF in PP, so no need to use fast lenses anymore ;) The only problem - it takes a lot of time to process the image correctly otherwise it'll look like cheap fake :)

Not true, just look at some of the tutorials on the link I provided. A ND Grad is a sledgehammer, great if you take pictures of railroad spikes, far too limited for much else.

I guess people like Joe Cornish are idiots then taking all those landscape shots with ND grads and making thousands of dollars doing so. One person perfume is another person poison and arrogance about one method over another is one of the stupidities of forums. Lets judge the image not the method.

Duh, Joe Cornish is sponsored by Lee Filters! I'd say nice things about anyone that paid me to say them if it didn't go against my morals. Besides he shot film long before he shot digital and there is a certain functionality difference between filter use when working on film or digital.

There are countless top grade landscape shooters nowadays who have never owned a filter, and that was my point. For a modern digital workflow filters with a lint through them are limiting from a compositional and subject standpoint that blending multiple exposures and blending does not have.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

IglooEater

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #461 on: July 17, 2017, 08:15:40 PM »
You are correct Lonelyboy. I'd never pre-order anything that expensive. "Last week my camera was fine, but next week I just have to have the newest."

I'll never understand that. More money than sense, I guess.

I think it's more like, "I've increasingly been wanting to upgrade for 4 years; now I'd really enjoy having it in time to get used to it before going on my bi-annual trip in August."  Which would be more my case. Incidentally, no I have not preordered it. Yet.

Right.  So you have time to, literally, spend a couple hours over a couple of days reading the reviews to evaluate the purchase before (maybe) going to BB or wherever and buying it?  That's what I'd do in that position.  Then we'll have some actual information, and all of this chatter will be meaningless.  As if it's not already.

It's not like it's going to be sold out.

Fair enough.   Frankly I don't break my head over these things.  If it says Canon on the front of it, it'll just work.  Seriously.  If something is blatantly wrong with it for me, the only way for me to know for certain is to try it out myself.  No internet review is seriously going to make the decision final for me.  If it doesn't cut it, I'll return it. Point à la ligne.  I've not returned anything yet.   How complicated do we have to make the decision?  There are only two choices for me: 5D III or 6D II.  There are ups and downs for both, but I seriously doubt it's possible to go wrong either way.   I guess I'm just not picky enough.

Well now, you're probably right; these last few years have been less bad. Major Canon releases used to sometimes get B/O for months.  Heck, even the 1DX II took a while to find its way on to shelves.  That was just a year ago.

IglooEater

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #462 on: July 17, 2017, 08:17:16 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons -

Clearly, you're missing the main reason people preorder the 6DII, or any new Canon product...so they can be the one to start the CR Forum topic, "Post your shots with the _________ product."

 ;D


 ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #462 on: July 17, 2017, 08:17:16 PM »

LonelyBoy

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #463 on: July 17, 2017, 08:36:24 PM »
Preordering something like this just seems strange to me for all these reasons -

Clearly, you're missing the main reason people preorder the 6DII, or any new Canon product...so they can be the one to start the CR Forum topic, "Post your shots with the _________ product."

 ;D

Yeah... whereas I got my 5D3 maybe 18 months ago and might get to a 5D4 one of these months.  Maybe.  The shadow recovery would actually be handy for shots of people under shade tents in Texas sunlight.  On the other hand, as of yet everyone loves those pics, even when the shadow slider is maxed out, so maybe not.

Aglet

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #464 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:44 PM »
I have said this before. I have seen big prints in galleries that have clearly been taken with Canon cameras and have been pushed so far in post I wouldn't show at a local camera club. However on enquiring it turned out it was the photographers best selling shot.

So who is the fool?

similarly, but at a low end art sale a few years ago, someone had various aurora photos that had obviously been pushed enough to reveal characteristic pattern noise in the images they were selling.

So I said to the young couple trying to sell them, "So you shoot with a Canon, eh?"

"Yes, how did you know?"

"By all this banding pattern noise in your images.  If this is a favorite subject you may want to consider a Nikon or Pentax instead."

They were dumbstruck for a moment and looked at each other before one responding, "You mean those other cameras don't do that?!?"

"That's right.
Nice images, otherwise."

Even if I have to educate them one - at - a - time. :)

it was a lot quicker than telling them all the workarounds to get better IQ with the same Canon gear for those shots.

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Re: Analysis of RAW samples at Fred Miranda show weak DR
« Reply #464 on: July 17, 2017, 09:34:44 PM »