November 24, 2017, 10:16:17 AM

Author Topic: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results  (Read 8876 times)

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 05:01:04 AM »
[...]

I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release.  When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter.  I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo.  However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay.  Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture.  I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing.  A low level card format makes no difference.

I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.

Thanks for your research! DPAF is one reason to buy a new camera (besides of more DR, compactness and vari angle disp). Hopefully it is useful for macro work in windy conditions with some AF tracking of macro subjects. A touch to focus/shutter release for off center subjects is maybe the only solution to get usable images ... getting more and more problems not thinking about my SL2 on the way to my hands :)
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 05:01:04 AM »

Woody

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 06:12:16 AM »
The most sensible way to compare is to download the RAW files and run them through ACR (or something equivalent). This method yields rather similar results from Canon 77D, 80D and M5.

foo

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 07:20:27 AM »
I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release.  When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter.  I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo.  However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay.  Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture.  I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing.  A low level card format makes no difference.

I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.

On my 5d4 it appears to be a UI related thing, it's too busy mucking about with flashing the shutter count icons etc..   Regardless of the review time there seems to be a 1-2 second delay before the Q and touch shutter icons return when you use the touch shutter.  Also if the drive mode is set to H, you still only get single shot from the touch shutter...  all of which suggests the touch shutter takes a different path from the physical shutter button.

It's not an AF or IS thing either, I tried with MF and IS turned off as well.  Actually.... I'm wondering if with touch shutter it's waiting until the buffer has cleared?

Seems like another one for Jacks caveats thread...

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 04:43:55 AM »
I see the same behaviour in my SL2 / 200d which arrived yesterday.

Maybe - while this is observed in 5d iv too - it is the delay between configuring the sensor between Live View Mode and Stills Capture Mode (this is my wording not Canon's so I have no internal information). In the live view mode the sensor bins berhaps several photosites together to reduce the resolution the digic processor has to manage for a 30Hz display with ... reduced resoultion. If the sensor has some on-board electronics, setting another mode needs some time to propagate. To have clean analog signals one has to wait until the sent digital signals effects on analog circuitry are close to zero.

While writing this I checked, if MF will shorten the lag - it doesn't so AF accuisition as main reason for the lag can be excluded.

[...]

I found part of the answer, apparently, the 2 second review time causes the camera to wait for two seconds when using the touch shutter release.  When using the shutter button, its not a issue, it takes shots pretty much as fast as I can press the shutter.  I tried setting the review time to 4 seconds, it took much longer before I could tough the screen to take a photo.  However, even with the review turned off, there is a delay.  Solution - use touch to focus and the shutter button to capture.  I had noticed the same issue with my new 5D MK IV but had not spent any time quantifying it, I thought it might be a memory card thing.  A low level card format makes no difference.

I'll be checking this out further on both cameras.

Thanks for your research! DPAF is one reason to buy a new camera (besides of more DR, compactness and vari angle disp). Hopefully it is useful for macro work in windy conditions with some AF tracking of macro subjects. A touch to focus/shutter release for off center subjects is maybe the only solution to get usable images ... getting more and more problems not thinking about my SL2 on the way to my hands :)
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 05:03:51 AM »
About the threads topic:

I observed that the grip of the SL2 / 200d is getting warm after a few minutes of use. My first thought was: Oh it sucks a lot of energy from the battery, if the battery gets that "hot".

But the battery isn't located inside the grip but in the body structure itself. Maybe they placed the digic vii and other electronics like the voltage converters inside the grip. If the sensor has ADCs on chip which can be assumed it is much easier to separate sensor and processor because only digital signals have to be transmitted which works lossless (information-wise).
The region behind the sensor (under the display) was not warm - opposite to my experience with the 600D / T3i(?) .

If that is the case: Kudos to the engineers of Canon ...

First checks with images show very precise tonal values and good capability to lift darker areas to overcome high contrast scenarios. I do that not just for fun but to regain my visual experience from the raw data of the camera.
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

rrcphoto

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2017, 12:12:34 PM »
It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.

check to see if you have image preview turned on. that's usually the culprit.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 12:16:50 PM by rrcphoto »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 06:09:12 PM »
It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.

check to see if you have image preview turned on. that's usually the culprit.

Yes, I posted later that image preview slows it down.  I'm not even sure why image preview is turned on by default in live view.  Turning it off reduces the delay, but its still too long.  Using the shutter button eliminates the issue, touch the screen to place the focus point where you want it, then use the shutter button to track the subject and close the shutter.  You can use continuous drive and AEB by holding the shutter button, but not by touch of the screen.

I still have issues holding the camera, right now, I'm thinking I'll return it for a 80D, its no fun using a camera if it makes your hand cramp.  No such cramp issue with my 5D MK IV.

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2017, 06:09:12 PM »

rrcphoto

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2017, 07:08:01 PM »
It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.

check to see if you have image preview turned on. that's usually the culprit.

Yes, I posted later that image preview slows it down.  I'm not even sure why image preview is turned on by default in live view.  Turning it off reduces the delay, but its still too long.  Using the shutter button eliminates the issue, touch the screen to place the focus point where you want it, then use the shutter button to track the subject and close the shutter.  You can use continuous drive and AEB by holding the shutter button, but not by touch of the screen.

I still have issues holding the camera, right now, I'm thinking I'll return it for a 80D, its no fun using a camera if it makes your hand cramp.  No such cramp issue with my 5D MK IV.

i found the SL1 a little too small.  I also find the M5 a little uncomfortable to hold for long periods of time.

there's nothing like the 5D /1D grip and feel where you can just hold onto that camera for hours on end without a problem.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2017, 10:21:51 PM »
It takes a long time between live view shots, I need to find out why I have to wait a few seconds.

check to see if you have image preview turned on. that's usually the culprit.

Yes, I posted later that image preview slows it down.  I'm not even sure why image preview is turned on by default in live view.  Turning it off reduces the delay, but its still too long.  Using the shutter button eliminates the issue, touch the screen to place the focus point where you want it, then use the shutter button to track the subject and close the shutter.  You can use continuous drive and AEB by holding the shutter button, but not by touch of the screen.

I still have issues holding the camera, right now, I'm thinking I'll return it for a 80D, its no fun using a camera if it makes your hand cramp.  No such cramp issue with my 5D MK IV.

i found the SL1 a little too small.  I also find the M5 a little uncomfortable to hold for long periods of time.

there's nothing like the 5D /1D grip and feel where you can just hold onto that camera for hours on end without a problem.

I just sold my 1D MK III, I bought it after I thought my carpal tunnel was over, I had surgery on both hands three years ago and sold my 1D MK IV.  I found that my wrists could not handle the 1 series.  I think a 80D would be ok.  I was wanting a small camera to take to places  where a bigger one was too much.  I really like the SL2, except for holding it.  I bought a 15-85mm EF-s lens today for it, so I'm committed to a crop body.  I'll carry the SL2 around some more.  Its the carpal tunnel, my grip using my thumb is weak, the 5 series bodies fit great and do not put so much stress on my thumb.  With the SL2, my thumb covers the corner of the touch screen unless I grab it with the end of my thumb and pinch it.  That puts lots of stress on the thumb.

I requested a RMA from Canon tonight by email, I have difficulty hearing over the phone.

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 06:07:15 AM »


[...]

I just sold my 1D MK III, I bought it after I thought my carpal tunnel was over, I had surgery on both hands three years ago and sold my 1D MK IV.  I found that my wrists could not handle the 1 series.  I think a 80D would be ok.  I was wanting a small camera to take to places  where a bigger one was too much.  I really like the SL2, except for holding it. I bought a 15-85mm EF-s lens today for it, so I'm committed to a crop body.  I'll carry the SL2 around some more.  Its the carpal tunnel, my grip using my thumb is weak, the 5 series bodies fit great and do not put so much stress on my thumb.  With the SL2, my thumb covers the corner of the touch screen unless I grab it with the end of my thumb and pinch it.  That puts lots of stress on the thumb.

I requested a RMA from Canon tonight by email, I have difficulty hearing over the phone.

What a pity!

I have luck because I can hold it without cramping - no carpal tunnel syndrome / large hands but maybe thinner fingers that helps sometimes. For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.

I have made three views how I can hold the 200D comfortably -the quality is bad because I made them with my 200D via one / two mirrors of bad quality (potential 200D buyers: THIS DOES NOT REFLECT THE TYPICAL IQ OF THAT CAMERA :)

Maybe it helps ... good luck.

Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

LonelyBoy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2017, 07:08:59 AM »
For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.

Same here - I try to hold the XXXD the same way as the larger bodies, and it doesn't work.  The SL1 (no SL2 yet) is fine because I use my pinky on the bottom of the camera, as you show, and my fingers don't even wrap around the grip.

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 04:52:36 AM »
For me it is much much easier to hold than the 600D. 40D or 5D are better and maybe comparable to the 80D.

Same here - I try to hold the XXXD the same way as the larger bodies, and it doesn't work.  The SL1 (no SL2 yet) is fine because I use my pinky on the bottom of the camera, as you show, and my fingers don't even wrap around the grip.

Good to see independent confirmation of my observation!
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

mb66energy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 05:02:43 AM »
Just for the two or three (potential) buyers of SL2 / 200D around here :)

Photonstophotos has published DR and noise related data on their website http://www.photonstophotos.net/ (first 4 links)

If you compare 200D versus 80D the full data acquisition chain (sensor / ADC / PCB / processor) shows a very similar behaviour and one might expect the same IQ from this entry level camera compared to the more mature 80D.
I am glad to see that IQ is still paramount for Canon in one of their cheapest offers of interchangeable lens cameras.

Gives me more latitude for contralight situations which I like most.

And DPAF is a killer for everything where you have 2 sec time - it's great to see a comfortable, fast and very precise way to set the focus point where I want to be it (except close to the borders).
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2017, 05:02:43 AM »

Maximilian

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2017, 06:11:31 AM »
...
If you compare 200D versus 80D the full data acquisition chain (sensor / ADC / PCB / processor) shows a very similar behaviour and one might expect the same IQ from this entry level camera compared to the more mature 80D.
I am glad to see that IQ is still paramount for Canon in one of their cheapest offers of interchangeable lens cameras.
...
And I am still shocked about the archaic AF they gave to it.
Could have been mine, if they had improved AF just by a little bit :(
(e.g. 9 pt. all cross, or old 7D or else) :'(

But thanks for that information.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

LonelyBoy

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2017, 10:27:28 AM »
...
If you compare 200D versus 80D the full data acquisition chain (sensor / ADC / PCB / processor) shows a very similar behaviour and one might expect the same IQ from this entry level camera compared to the more mature 80D.
I am glad to see that IQ is still paramount for Canon in one of their cheapest offers of interchangeable lens cameras.
...
And I am still shocked about the archaic AF they gave to it.
Could have been mine, if they had improved AF just by a little bit :(
(e.g. 9 pt. all cross, or old 7D or else) :'(

But thanks for that information.

The old AF does hurt, but for the purpose of sitting in the glovebox (ok, center console) for handiness, it shouldn't be too bad.  OTOH, maybe that means just keep my SL1.  Which is probably the answer.

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Re: TDP Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D Noise Test Results
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2017, 10:27:28 AM »