June 25, 2018, 12:44:32 AM

Author Topic: 5DSR II?  (Read 24793 times)

bholliman

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 12:31:32 PM »
I'm curious as to why mirrorless cameras are so attractive. I always tell people both my SR and my VI are mirrorless, at least when I want them to be. When I'm shooting landscapes my technique is to compose my image through my wonderfully clear optical viewfinder. Next I push the live view button, the mirror flips up and low and behold I have a mirrorless camera. (I do that to take away the mirror vibration. It also allows me to adjust my exposure and the focus points seem to go further from the center.) It would seem to me that people are not asking for mirrorless cameras as much as they are asking for electronic viewfinders. So far from what I've seen EVF's look much like a bad television screen that eats your batteries. Just my opinion, understanding it is a matter of taste. Guess I'll have to check out the latest Sony's and see if they have made any improvements.

I agree.  Personally, I don't see what all the buzz is over mirrorless bodies.  They have a few advantages and more disadvantages when compared with DSLR's for what I shoot.  I keep up with the news and reviews with interest, but I'm very happy with my current gear and am not remotely tempted to replace my main camera with a different brand or mirrorless.  I enjoy my M5 as a light-weight, occasional use camera, but I always grab my 5DsR and L lenses when I will be doing serious photography.

By the time Canon releases a 5DsR MkII (I'm guessing late 2019), I may be really to look at an upgrade if it has some features like tilt/flip touchscreen, DPAF, improved buffer performance and AF upgrades.  I'm very happy with the IQ from my 5DsR and hope they don't increase the megapixals too much over the current 50.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 12:35:02 PM by bholliman »
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LII
M5, EF-M lenses: 22mm f/2, 18-150mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/68928679@N05

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 12:31:32 PM »

Frodo

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 02:25:42 PM »
I tried a friend's Sony A9.  While the EVF is better than that on my father's Canon superzoom, there is no way that I would be willing to give up the crisp, clear, live image through the OVF for such an EVF.
Eventually the EVF will be as clear as an OVF, and offer some advantages, but we're not there yet.
If gear matters: 5DsR, 6D, M3, Samyang 14/2.8, EF 24-105/4, EF 35/2.0IS, EF 50/2.5 macro, EF 85/1.8, EF 200/2.8II, EF 400/5.6, EF-M 11-22/4-5.6, EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6, EF-M 55-200/4.5-6.3, Ext 1.4x, Lifesize conv, Ext tube EF25, 270EX, Godox XPro-C, TT685-C and TT600

Mikehit

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2018, 04:49:25 PM »
I'm curious as to why mirrorless cameras are so attractive. I always tell people both my SR and my VI are mirrorless, at least when I want them to be. When I'm shooting landscapes my technique is to compose my image through my wonderfully clear optical viewfinder. Next I push the live view button, the mirror flips up and low and behold I have a mirrorless camera. (I do that to take away the mirror vibration. It also allows me to adjust my exposure and the focus points seem to go further from the center.) It would seem to me that people are not asking for mirrorless cameras as much as they are asking for electronic viewfinders. So far from what I've seen EVF's look much like a bad television screen that eats your batteries. Just my opinion, understanding it is a matter of taste. Guess I'll have to check out the latest Sony's and see if they have made any improvements.

If Sony had not had such a fantastic sensor, would we have seen so many people changing systems? I very much doubt it: I think most would have said 'that's cool but not enough to make me change, I'll wait till Canon develop one'.

lexaclarke

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2018, 05:25:53 PM »
My 5D mark II definitely needs to be replaced and a 5DS R II would be perfect for that. The huge resolution of the 5DS R would be so useful for all the cropping options it gives but I think I have to prioritise a speed improvement first and when I've used the 5DS R it doesn't feel any faster than my 5D II. If a 5DS R mk II could just push the overall speed and responsiveness up, even if it only kept the same sensor as the first version, that would be enough to push me to upgrade. I want to get many many years of use out of any camera I buy and a 5DS R with a speed boost would probably last me for the next decade.

I'm curious as to why mirrorless cameras are so attractive.
I agree.  Personally, I don't see what all the buzz is over mirrorless bodies.
My main camera is a 5D mark II because I'm not one of those people who has to have the latest tech. I mostly use it with a Sigma 35mm. My next most used camera is a mirrorless Fujifilm X100T, which is a 35mm equivalent lens on an APS-C sensor. Honestly the two systems are pretty interchangeable but there are times when one is better than the other. The SLR is better when I know a photo will be viewed at a really high resolution, because that Sigma lens is so sharp, or when I need to make a strong professional first impression with a ''proper'' camera. The mirrorless is better when I need people to be comfortable or when I need to get the exposure right first time and won't have time to review and adjust.

I don't really care for the EVF because it's nicer to just use big the rear screen, but the EVF has its uses in bright light. Being able to preview your shot instead of review is great, and EVF lets you do that even with bright light behind you. It's a more relaxed way of working.

If Sony had not had such a fantastic sensor, would we have seen so many people changing systems? I very much doubt it: I think most would have said 'that's cool but not enough to make me change, I'll wait till Canon develop one'.
I think just as many people would change systems but they'd be a different type of people. Think about everyone who likes to use old lenses adapted to digital, the Sonys are the best bodies for that. I'd like to switch to Sony if I could afford the cost of totally switching brands, but that's not because of the sensor. For me it's the video options, the tilt screens, stabilisation for any lens you put on and eye detect AF.

Talys

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2018, 04:04:26 AM »
I'm curious as to why mirrorless cameras are so attractive. I always tell people both my SR and my VI are mirrorless, at least when I want them to be. When I'm shooting landscapes my technique is to compose my image through my wonderfully clear optical viewfinder. Next I push the live view button, the mirror flips up and low and behold I have a mirrorless camera. (I do that to take away the mirror vibration. It also allows me to adjust my exposure and the focus points seem to go further from the center.) It would seem to me that people are not asking for mirrorless cameras as much as they are asking for electronic viewfinders. So far from what I've seen EVF's look much like a bad television screen that eats your batteries. Just my opinion, understanding it is a matter of taste. Guess I'll have to check out the latest Sony's and see if they have made any improvements.

If Sony had not had such a fantastic sensor, would we have seen so many people changing systems? I very much doubt it: I think most would have said 'that's cool but not enough to make me change, I'll wait till Canon develop one'.

I've been using a borrowed A7R3 for the last few days, and I get why it's so attractive.  It's a camera that promises to take beautiful pictures, faithfully recording what you see in the viewfinder and not requiring you to do much else.  In other words... a perfect tourist camera.

The sensor is fantastic, but it actually isn't much different from a 5D4 in practical terms -- or even, gasp, a 6D2.  Don't let that 43 megapixels fool you -- there are precisely zero pictures that were incredible, that wouldn't also have been incredible with 30, or even 26 megapixels.   You can't really deeply crop amazing pictures out of that 43 megapixels any more than you can out of 30 -- a small object in the distance might get a few more pixels, but it's still too small to make a good photo.  People crow about the dynamic range; in fact, you can't really correct overexposures by very much (same as 5D4), and lifted shadows do not look anywhere near as good as correctly exposed photos to start with.

On the other hand, the Sony has a horrible flash system that is infinitely inferior to even Yongnuo's knockoff RTs, is incompatible with pattern-style AF illuminators, and has only focus-by-wire lenses, and is painful to hold for more than a couple of hours without a egregiously overpriced grip.  Battery life is "fine", except it's not, because you'll easily go through two or three batteries if you need a full day of shooting.  The finger dials feel cheap, and the shutter button is set so high up with a ridge around it that it's impossible to gently depress (so as to not add motion to a large lens).  The weather sealing is a joke.

It's a camera that's first class in many respects, but falls really flat on some key things that I think that a lot of photographers would value.

So why is it so popular?

In large part, I think, because Sony caters to a segment of photography enthusiasts that don't care about the things that it's not good at so much.  I mean, I have met many people with $10,000 in their camera bag, who don't own and never want to use a flash.  There are people who think that telephoto ends with 400 + 1.4x.  Or who would never consider using a tripod and a long exposure.  Or use an ND or polarizing filter. 

They are dismissive of the reasons for the size and bulk of a DSLR, and really just want something smaller that is easier to use and that is technically capable of producing professional-quality output.

Mancubus

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »
My Canon clock is ticking here. I've been waiting too long for a new body that at least comes close to the competitors and it's been only disappointments one after another.

I know it's about the photographer and not the equipment, but I simply refuse to pay top dollar for something that lags behind so bad in technology compared to the competition.

For years I've been waiting and my 5D3 is getting very old - rubbers are coming out everywhere, buttons are sticking, joystick fell out, shutter counter is over 200k. I love it and it has served me well, but it lacks many of the new features that would make my life easier.

When this 5D3 dies, I will need a new camera, and when that happens I'm hoping we will have at least a CR2 of a new 5D that can be somewhat on par with the A7III and D850.

Frodo

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2018, 03:15:19 PM »
@lexaclarke: my 5DsR is lightyears ahead of the 5DII I had. Even the 6D was an upgrade. Comparing files from a wedding shoot over weekend, the focus with my 200/2.8 on the 5DsR is about 95%, that for the 6D is perhaps 30% even with the centre point. The 6D is now relegated to backup or when I must use two bodies simultaneously and then I mount a wideangle on it. And in my view, the 6D was a major step up on my 5DII. The delay in 5DsR image review is annoying, though.

@Talys: I have really appreciated two things with the 5DsR resolution. The first is how it made my 24-105/4 produce substantially sharper files. The 5DsR-24-105/4 combo produces visibly sharper images than my 6D-35/2IS combo. Second is the benefit of deep cropping. I had to take about 20 family group photos in the post-ceremony turmoil of a wedding in the weekend. I set the 5DsR on a tripod then took 4-5 photos of each group. I later made vertical crops of small groups 3-5 people with plenty of resolution remaining. A bit like a built-in APS camera.
If gear matters: 5DsR, 6D, M3, Samyang 14/2.8, EF 24-105/4, EF 35/2.0IS, EF 50/2.5 macro, EF 85/1.8, EF 200/2.8II, EF 400/5.6, EF-M 11-22/4-5.6, EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6, EF-M 55-200/4.5-6.3, Ext 1.4x, Lifesize conv, Ext tube EF25, 270EX, Godox XPro-C, TT685-C and TT600

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2018, 03:15:19 PM »

bholliman

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2018, 03:58:07 PM »
I've been using a borrowed A7R3 for the last few days, and I get why it's so attractive.  It's a camera that promises to take beautiful pictures, faithfully recording what you see in the viewfinder and not requiring you to do much else.  In other words... a perfect tourist camera.

The sensor is fantastic, but it actually isn't much different from a 5D4 in practical terms -- or even, gasp, a 6D2.  Don't let that 43 megapixels fool you -- there are precisely zero pictures that were incredible, that wouldn't also have been incredible with 30, or even 26 megapixels.   You can't really deeply crop amazing pictures out of that 43 megapixels any more than you can out of 30 -- a small object in the distance might get a few more pixels, but it's still too small to make a good photo.  People crow about the dynamic range; in fact, you can't really correct overexposures by very much (same as 5D4), and lifted shadows do not look anywhere near as good as correctly exposed photos to start with.

On the other hand, the Sony has a horrible flash system that is infinitely inferior to even Yongnuo's knockoff RTs, is incompatible with pattern-style AF illuminators, and has only focus-by-wire lenses, and is painful to hold for more than a couple of hours without a egregiously overpriced grip.  Battery life is "fine", except it's not, because you'll easily go through two or three batteries if you need a full day of shooting.  The finger dials feel cheap, and the shutter button is set so high up with a ridge around it that it's impossible to gently depress (so as to not add motion to a large lens).  The weather sealing is a joke.

It's a camera that's first class in many respects, but falls really flat on some key things that I think that a lot of photographers would value.

So why is it so popular?

In large part, I think, because Sony caters to a segment of photography enthusiasts that don't care about the things that it's not good at so much.  I mean, I have met many people with $10,000 in their camera bag, who don't own and never want to use a flash.  There are people who think that telephoto ends with 400 + 1.4x.  Or who would never consider using a tripod and a long exposure.  Or use an ND or polarizing filter. 

They are dismissive of the reasons for the size and bulk of a DSLR, and really just want something smaller that is easier to use and that is technically capable of producing professional-quality output.

Thanks for sharing!  Its good to see a balanced evaluation that isn't just based on specs and hearsay.  The Sony hype-machine is certainly running at full speed in the photography media.


My Canon clock is ticking here. I've been waiting too long for a new body that at least comes close to the competitors and it's been only disappointments one after another.

I know it's about the photographer and not the equipment, but I simply refuse to pay top dollar for something that lags behind so bad in technology compared to the competition.

For years I've been waiting and my 5D3 is getting very old - rubbers are coming out everywhere, buttons are sticking, joystick fell out, shutter counter is over 200k. I love it and it has served me well, but it lacks many of the new features that would make my life easier.

When this 5D3 dies, I will need a new camera, and when that happens I'm hoping we will have at least a CR2 of a new 5D that can be somewhat on par with the A7III and D850.

Please see the comments from Talys in the post prior to yours.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 04:28:03 PM by bholliman »
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LII
M5, EF-M lenses: 22mm f/2, 18-150mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/68928679@N05

bholliman

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2018, 04:16:06 PM »
@lexaclarke: my 5DsR is lightyears ahead of the 5DII I had. Even the 6D was an upgrade. Comparing files from a wedding shoot over weekend, the focus with my 200/2.8 on the 5DsR is about 95%, that for the 6D is perhaps 30% even with the centre point. The 6D is now relegated to backup or when I must use two bodies simultaneously and then I mount a wideangle on it. And in my view, the 6D was a major step up on my 5DII. The delay in 5DsR image review is annoying, though.

+1  I have used a 5D MkII', the 5DsR is a huge upgrade in every respect.  Its kind of a 5D Mk3.5 with a 50mp sensor.

@Talys: ...Second is the benefit of deep cropping. I had to take about 20 family group photos in the post-ceremony turmoil of a wedding in the weekend. I set the 5DsR on a tripod then took 4-5 photos of each group. I later made vertical crops of small groups 3-5 people with plenty of resolution remaining. A bit like a built-in APS camera.

Moving from a 5D MkIII and 6D to a 5DsR, I found the ability to crop to be substantial as well.  This is especially useful for bird and wildlife images where you can't get close enough to fill the frame. 

« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 04:25:58 PM by bholliman »
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LII
M5, EF-M lenses: 22mm f/2, 18-150mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/68928679@N05

unfocused

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2018, 04:30:15 PM »
My Canon clock is ticking here. I've been waiting too long for a new body that at least comes close to the competitors and it's been only disappointments one after another.

As someone who actually owns a 5DIV, I find this statement incomprehensible.

Some personal history: I owned a 5DIII and I now own a 7DII, 5DIV and 1DX II. Bought the 7DII because the 5DIII was inadequate for sports and at ISO 6400, the noise of the 7DII is not that much worse than the 5DIII.

Bought the 1DX II because I wanted the speed of a 7DII coupled with the superior noise and sensor performance of full frame.

Bought the 5DIV late last fall because I wanted a second full frame body with a quieter shutter, so I wouldn't have to keep switching lenses on the 1DX II.

I could not be much happier with the 5DIV. In fact, it is now my main camera and I use the 1Dx II almost exclusively for sports. There are a few quibbles (the lack of illuminated points is a real pain in dark settings and it would be nice if the metering were linked to the autofocus points), but overall it's now my main camera for shooting anything but sports and even with sports shooting, I find the 7 fps is usually adequate.

Some people think the difference between a 5DIII and 5DIV is negligible, I completely disagree. It's more like the difference between the 7D and 7DII -- which is huge. You might not find it in "features" but it's very evident in performance.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2018, 04:44:45 PM »
Well since it looks like a 5DSR 2 is at least 1.5 years away and I don't want to wait any longer on an upgrade... I got a 5DSR on order!!

That will cause it to come out in May ;)

Sporgon

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2018, 05:04:11 PM »
..... and it would be nice if the metering were linked to the autofocus points),

Just a note on this: in matrix metering mode the metering is in fact linked to the selected AF point - to a degree, and has been for generations of Canon dslrs. Maybe you meant spot AF, but that is such a dangerous way of metering a scene !

Pleased you like the 5DIV. I decided to go for the 5Ds due to the (pretty steady !) type of photography I do and I'm generally delighted with the IQ.

lexaclarke

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2018, 06:10:50 PM »
@lexaclarke: my 5DsR is lightyears ahead of the 5DII I had. Even the 6D was an upgrade. Comparing files from a wedding shoot over weekend, the focus with my 200/2.8 on the 5DsR is about 95%, that for the 6D is perhaps 30% even with the centre point. The 6D is now relegated to backup or when I must use two bodies simultaneously and then I mount a wideangle on it. And in my view, the 6D was a major step up on my 5DII. The delay in 5DsR image review is annoying, though.
Every time I've used the 5DS R it has been better but not enough better to justify the cost. Especially in speed and responsiveness. Maybe I'm shooting in darker conditions than you that are holding it back, but I've not seen it be any faster or more accurate. I like having the IQ but if I'm going to drop three grand on something it needs more than just IQ and to not just be way, way better now, but it also needs to be so far ahead that in ten years it'll still hang. I'm looking at the 1D X as the benchmark for speed that's enough to justify the cost.

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2018, 06:10:50 PM »

Talys

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2018, 12:37:00 AM »
My Canon clock is ticking here. I've been waiting too long for a new body that at least comes close to the competitors and it's been only disappointments one after another.

As someone who actually owns a 5DIV, I find this statement incomprehensible.

Some personal history: I owned a 5DIII and I now own a 7DII, 5DIV and 1DX II. Bought the 7DII because the 5DIII was inadequate for sports and at ISO 6400, the noise of the 7DII is not that much worse than the 5DIII.

Bought the 1DX II because I wanted the speed of a 7DII coupled with the superior noise and sensor performance of full frame.

Bought the 5DIV late last fall because I wanted a second full frame body with a quieter shutter, so I wouldn't have to keep switching lenses on the 1DX II.

I could not be much happier with the 5DIV. In fact, it is now my main camera and I use the 1Dx II almost exclusively for sports. There are a few quibbles (the lack of illuminated points is a real pain in dark settings and it would be nice if the metering were linked to the autofocus points), but overall it's now my main camera for shooting anything but sports and even with sports shooting, I find the 7 fps is usually adequate.

Some people think the difference between a 5DIII and 5DIV is negligible, I completely disagree. It's more like the difference between the 7D and 7DII -- which is huge. You might not find it in "features" but it's very evident in performance.

The 5DIV is a majestic camera.  I'd own one, except I kept holding out for a full frame Canon DSLR that had a fully articulating (face forward) screen, because of the work I do.  Often, camera is high up on a tripod, and I want a forward facing LCD so that I can recompose my scene without having to fidget with the camera. 

I ended up getting a 6DII, which is closer to a 5DIII's performance -- but even that is amazingly good.

When I hear people complain that the 5DIV isn't good enough... what I want to see is the kind of photography they do that is so demanding.

Mancubus

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2018, 02:21:16 PM »
My Canon clock is ticking here. I've been waiting too long for a new body that at least comes close to the competitors and it's been only disappointments one after another.

As someone who actually owns a 5DIV, I find this statement incomprehensible.


You and Talys missed the point of my comment. This is not about what I need (I could do my work with a Rebel if I had to), but the value and features I'm getting for my money.

Canon is charging top dollar for a Camera that is WAY inferior to the similar priced (cheaper on release) D850 and I won't even get started on the Sony A7III.

When buying a car, I will evaluate what every brand offers for the money. Of course any option will be able to take me around, but I want to get the best I can get in the price range. There are engine specs, safety features and lots of other practicality items that can be very different when looking at competitors from different brands. The same goes for cameras with the difference that I'm tied up with the lenses and unfortunately changing brands is not as easy (or I would have done it long ago).

The options I have now from Canon are a joke. Of course I could perform my job with any of these cameras, but there are so many small stuff that Canon lacks that I can't get myself to buy anything from the current lineup (except the 1DX-II but I don't need the speed and I want something smaller).

I want:
- no AA filter
- UHS-II on SD slot
- 1/250 sync
- -4EV AF
- Focus Peaking
- Focus Stacking
- Auto AF calibration
- DR and Noise same as the top ones from Nikon and Sony
- Automatic focus on eye
- Sensor shift stabilizer

This is why my hopes are on the 5DSR2, please Canon don't disappoint me again.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 02:51:23 PM by Mancubus »

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Re: 5DSR II?
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2018, 02:21:16 PM »