December 13, 2017, 04:44:20 AM

Author Topic: MFD's  (Read 3505 times)

chrysoberyl

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
  • 6D
MFD's
« on: August 09, 2017, 10:21:44 AM »
Are MFD’s usually quoted by the manufacturer from the plane of the sensor?  How sharp is the lens at MFD?  Where can one find charts to show sharpness versus distance?
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

canon rumors FORUM

MFD's
« on: August 09, 2017, 10:21:44 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 21830
Re: MFD's
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 10:51:43 AM »
Yes, MFD is measured from the plane of the sensor.  Working distance is measured from the end of the lens.

Sharpness at MFD is dependent on the lens.  Some lens designs are better than others, certainly macro lenses are optimized for close sharpness.  Some lenses, like the 70-300L, use a floating focus group to improve close focus image quality.  There are consequences - for example, in the case of the 70-300L, the MFD is the same as the 70-200/2.8L IS II, and the max magnificaiton is also the same, even though one is at 300mm and the other at 200mm.  In other words, the 70-300L has bad focus breathing, and you're getting less than 200mm equivalent focal length at the MFD (that's also true for macro lenses, for example the 100/2.8L is effectively 68mm at 1:1 mag).

I'm not aware of any testing that shows sharpness vs. focus distance.  You could use FoCal to do that yourself, though...
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

ajfotofilmagem

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2162
Re: MFD's
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 10:51:51 AM »
Yes, the MFD is the distance between the plane of the image sensor and the object being photographed.

Usually "non-macro" lenses have their sharpness tested at medium distances. To scientifically test all lenses in your MFD, you would need to create test cards of various sizes, for ultra wide lenses, up to super telephoto.

The reviews of Chistopher Frost on youtube test the sharpness of lenses also in your MFD.

chrysoberyl

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
  • 6D
Re: MFD's
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 11:15:10 AM »
Yes, MFD is measured from the plane of the sensor.  Working distance is measured from the end of the lens.

Sharpness at MFD is dependent on the lens.  Some lens designs are better than others, certainly macro lenses are optimized for close sharpness.  Some lenses, like the 70-300L, use a floating focus group to improve close focus image quality.  There are consequences - for example, in the case of the 70-300L, the MFD is the same as the 70-200/2.8L IS II, and the max magnificaiton is also the same, even though one is at 300mm and the other at 200mm.  In other words, the 70-300L has bad focus breathing, and you're getting less than 200mm equivalent focal length at the MFD (that's also true for macro lenses, for example the 100/2.8L is effectively 68mm at 1:1 mag).

I'm not aware of any testing that shows sharpness vs. focus distance.  You could use FoCal to do that yourself, though...

Thank you.  I wonder sometimes whether and how my photo's could be better.  The technical support provided in this forum provides clarity...I really appreciate it.
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

chrysoberyl

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
  • 6D
Re: MFD's
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 11:21:36 AM »
Yes, the MFD is the distance between the plane of the image sensor and the object being photographed.

Usually "non-macro" lenses have their sharpness tested at medium distances. To scientifically test all lenses in your MFD, you would need to create test cards of various sizes, for ultra wide lenses, up to super telephoto.

The reviews of Chistopher Frost on youtube test the sharpness of lenses also in your MFD.

Thanks very much.  I am concerned about Sigma 135 Art MFD quality.  I know - using a telephoto for close-ups is probably not the wisest technique.  But this lens is so sharp that I can't help but compare it to my macro lenses.  Thanks again.
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

johnf3f

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 830
  • Canon 1Dx
Re: MFD's
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2017, 06:47:38 PM »
Yes, the MFD is the distance between the plane of the image sensor and the object being photographed.

Usually "non-macro" lenses have their sharpness tested at medium distances. To scientifically test all lenses in your MFD, you would need to create test cards of various sizes, for ultra wide lenses, up to super telephoto.

The reviews of Chistopher Frost on youtube test the sharpness of lenses also in your MFD.

Thanks very much.  I am concerned about Sigma 135 Art MFD quality.  I know - using a telephoto for close-ups is probably not the wisest technique.  But this lens is so sharp that I can't help but compare it to my macro lenses.  Thanks again.

Well about 20% of my photography is done with my Canon 800mm with extension tubes to reduce the MFD and I haven't noticed any loss of quality. If you are concerned about operating your 135mm at it's MFD then just  add a 12/13mm extension tube and you won't be operating at MFD! Though you will loose infinity focus. The third party extension tubes are as cheap as chips - just make certain you get the AF capable ones and don't spend more than £15/$19 as there is no point!
Canon 1DX, 7D2, 16-35 F4 L IS, 24-70 F2.8 V2, 100 F2.8 Macro, 100-400 L IS Mk2, 300 F2.8 L IS, 800 F5.6 L IS, Holga Pinhole lens.

chrysoberyl

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
  • 6D
Re: MFD's
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »
Well about 20% of my photography is done with my Canon 800mm with extension tubes to reduce the MFD and I haven't noticed any loss of quality. If you are concerned about operating your 135mm at it's MFD then just  add a 12/13mm extension tube and you won't be operating at MFD! Though you will loose infinity focus. The third party extension tubes are as cheap as chips - just make certain you get the AF capable ones and don't spend more than £15/$19 as there is no point!

Thanks!  I have four ET's and my concern was IQ when using a 20mm with the 135.  I was shooting a wildflower in rain and biting insects, and with limited time.  In retrospect, I probably was closer than MFD.

What were you shooting with your 800 and extension tubes?
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: MFD's
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »

SecureGSM

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 742
Re: MFD's
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 08:49:32 AM »
the Sigma 135 Art is at it's absolute worst at MFD. The lens is about 20% sharper at infinity.

Yes, the MFD is the distance between the plane of the image sensor and the object being photographed.

Usually "non-macro" lenses have their sharpness tested at medium distances. To scientifically test all lenses in your MFD, you would need to create test cards of various sizes, for ultra wide lenses, up to super telephoto.

The reviews of Chistopher Frost on youtube test the sharpness of lenses also in your MFD.

Thanks very much.  I am concerned about Sigma 135 Art MFD quality.  I know - using a telephoto for close-ups is probably not the wisest technique.  But this lens is so sharp that I can't help but compare it to my macro lenses.  Thanks again.

chrysoberyl

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 705
  • 6D
Re: MFD's
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2017, 12:19:55 PM »
the Sigma 135 Art is at it's absolute worst at MFD. The lens is about 20% sharper at infinity.

Interesting.  Is this typically true of tele's?  I'll keep this in mind as I run my Sigma 135 vs. Milvus 100 tests.  Thanks.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:58:18 AM by chrysoberyl »
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

tiggy@mac.com

  • EOS 80D
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
  • 5D4, 1DX
    • Forest Metrix
Re: MFD's
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2017, 09:22:32 PM »
I've been enjoying shooting my Sigma 135 at MFD, but I do find that sometimes a I stray into the <MFD territory, and the resulting blur is my own doing. I have the same issue with the 100-400 II. It does such a good job of getting a semi-macro shot, that I'll often test its MFD, and when that happens some breaths have it in focus, and some breaths heave it just below the MFD. It's hard to judge that level of sharpness on the back screen. I often find it useful to give myself an extra inch and then I find in post that almost everything is spot on.

Valvebounce

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3462
  • Doing my best to get all of this to work together.
Re: MFD's
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2017, 05:41:09 AM »
Hi tiggy.
Thank goodness, I thought I was half mad using my 100-400II on my 7DII for as you say semi macro shots! I was not quite at mfd, I already learned to take a step back, what I did find was that after a fairly brisk walk my breathing was making One Shot AF useless, (One Shot for static subjects, AiServo for moving subjects!) such a shallow DoF, so I switched to AiServo and was stunned to see the image sharp as I swayed back and forth, I know the Servo is good at tracking things, but following my sway as I breathed, I never imagined it would be that good! I am blessed to have this tech helping me turn crap composition out of focus shots in to crap composition in focus shots! ;D

Cheers, Graham.

I've been enjoying shooting my Sigma 135 at MFD, but I do find that sometimes a I stray into the <MFD territory, and the resulting blur is my own doing. I have the same issue with the 100-400 II. It does such a good job of getting a semi-macro shot, that I'll often test its MFD, and when that happens some breaths have it in focus, and some breaths heave it just below the MFD. It's hard to judge that level of sharpness on the back screen. I often find it useful to give myself an extra inch and then I find in post that almost everything is spot on.
7DII+Grip, 1DsIII, 7D+Grip, 40D+Grip, EF 24-105 f4L EF-S 17-85, EF-S 10-22, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II, EF 1.4xIII, 2xIII, EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6l IS II, Σ17-70 f2.8-4 C, EF 50mm f1.8, YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, Filters, Remotes, Macro tubes, Tripods, heads etc!

1DsIII, 20D, 24-105, 17-85, Nifty 50 pre owned

SecureGSM

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 742
Re: MFD's
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2017, 09:21:57 AM »
Typically, yes, true for telephoto lenses. Sigma 85 Art well not exactly a telephoto lens but is at its best at around 4m to subject but seriously sucks at MFD. big time!

the Sigma 135 Art is at it's absolute worst at MFD. The lens is about 20% sharper at infinity.

Interesting.  Is this typically true of tele's?  I'll keep this in mind as I run my Sigma 135 vs. Milvus 100 tests.  Thanks.

I compared my Canon 100L to my Milvus 100 at MFD and am shocked.  The subject is ~20% larger with the Milvus!  I expected the opposite.  Clearly the Milvus is not as short as the Canon at MFD.

Mt Spokane Photography

  • Canon EF 5-1500mm f/1.0L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 13745
Re: MFD's
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 02:50:32 PM »
I've had some lenses besides macro's do well at or near MFD.  The 100-400L, the 17-55mm EF-s.  Some like the 135mmL seffer at MFD.

If you asre looking for a lens that does well at MFD, I'd read reviews, many of them comment on performance at MFD even though they do not publish numbers.

One lens that is supposed to do well at close distances, the Canon 24-70mm f/4L has reviewers saying IQ is reduced at close distances.

I expect the new TS lenses that are rumored for announcement later this month, will be very good at MFD whem used without tilt  Tilt always seems to reduce IQ somewhat.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: MFD's
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 02:50:32 PM »

johnf3f

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 830
  • Canon 1Dx
Re: MFD's
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 06:06:16 PM »
Well about 20% of my photography is done with my Canon 800mm with extension tubes to reduce the MFD and I haven't noticed any loss of quality. If you are concerned about operating your 135mm at it's MFD then just  add a 12/13mm extension tube and you won't be operating at MFD! Though you will loose infinity focus. The third party extension tubes are as cheap as chips - just make certain you get the AF capable ones and don't spend more than £15/$19 as there is no point!

Thanks!  I have four ET's and my concern was IQ when using a 20mm with the 135.  I was shooting a wildflower in rain and biting insects, and with limited time.  In retrospect, I probably was closer than MFD.

What were you shooting with your 800 and extension tubes?

Small birds almost every time I go to my nearest nature reserve, unfortunately the best hide is not suitable for tripods/mono pods so it's all hand held too - just adds to the fun!
Canon 1DX, 7D2, 16-35 F4 L IS, 24-70 F2.8 V2, 100 F2.8 Macro, 100-400 L IS Mk2, 300 F2.8 L IS, 800 F5.6 L IS, Holga Pinhole lens.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: MFD's
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2017, 06:06:16 PM »