November 18, 2017, 08:18:35 PM

Author Topic: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D  (Read 4033 times)

Adelino

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Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« on: August 13, 2017, 11:52:02 AM »
It's hard or impossible to compare reviews from different times especially eight years apart. Could anyone who has used both the original 7D and the 6DII compare autofocus performance for me. The 7D was stellar 8 years ago and some reviews have been disappointed in the 6DII autofocus performance but what would it mean for me directly coming from an original 7D. Any help is appreciated!

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Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« on: August 13, 2017, 11:52:02 AM »

Talys

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 01:07:28 PM »
I haven't used a 7D, but there's nothing wrong with the speed or accuracy of 6DII autofocus (it's great).  The issue is that since they took the (excellent) 80D autofocus system and dropped it into a full frame camera, there's a lot of real estate that isn't under autofocus.  I'm sure you can see pictures of the AF pattern.

Practically, is that an issue?  It could be, if you want to autofocus on something while using OVF, that's near any of the edges or corners.  It hasn't been for me; practically, my subjects are just not that near the corners, but I totally get the objection.

If you're using liveview, DPAF will allow you to autofocus anywhere; just tap on what you want focused on.  Or turn on touch shutter, and it will focus and snap the picture.  Worth noting, if you've never used it, dual pixel autofocus is awesome.

Luds34

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 02:41:18 PM »
It's hard or impossible to compare reviews from different times especially eight years apart. Could anyone who has used both the original 7D and the 6DII compare autofocus performance for me. The 7D was stellar 8 years ago and some reviews have been disappointed in the 6DII autofocus performance but what would it mean for me directly coming from an original 7D. Any help is appreciated!

I've only shot the original 7D in passing. However I've owned the 70D which has basically the same 19 point focus system. It had 2 less modes (point and expanded) and therefore less flexibility, however I believe most felt it performed better, due to the faster processor and refined focus algorithms/firmware, both that come with a newer model camera.

So my initial impressions so far of Ai Servo of the 6D have been that it just works. I've used the following lenses all wide open and have been very happy with the results. Sigma 35mm Art, Canon 135mm f/2L, Canon 70-200 f/2.8L.

The Sigma has surprised me the most. For starters, I was already worried about the "outside focus points not working accurately on 3rd party lenses" issue, one shot or ai servo. But so far the outside focus points seem to focus great. And the tracking has worked well too. With the 35mm the tracking has been left to just continuing to lock in the narrow DOF on those semi static subjects that might be moving, laughing, leaning on you and it has done well.

The 135mm I've commented on briefly before and I used it to chase my daughter around at a park, playground, swing, etc. and it just seemed to consistently hit.

Most recently I used the 70-200 from a boat at 200mm trying to keep the frame on a tuber. The biggest challenge was trying to just keep the subject within the frame, let alone the focus area (I used full 45 point spread with initial lock to center point). I have yet to completely pixel peek these latest photos but initial impressions are that it worked well. I don't know for a fact, but my gut tells me that the iRGB metering sensor put a preference on the "skin tones" of the subject and helped push focus on those parts of the frame and not the tube or the water splashing up in front or the rope, AND helped re-acquire the subject as the boat would bounce and the camera would lose the subject temporarily.

Again, these are just a handful of initial impressions I've had with the camera and the tracking of it. If I start to run into some real limitations, disappointments I will certainly comeback and share. Yes, being full frame the AF spread is a bit clustered (roughly to rule of thirds in both directions). However I've been happy with it's performance and feel is has performed every bit as good (better?) as the 70D I once owned and that camera's AF tracking never let me down.

LonelyBoy

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 02:52:43 PM »
I haven't used a 7D, but there's nothing wrong with the speed or accuracy of 6DII autofocus (it's great).  The issue is that since they took the (excellent) 80D autofocus system and dropped it into a full frame camera, there's a lot of real estate that isn't under autofocus.  I'm sure you can see pictures of the AF pattern.

Practically, is that an issue?  It could be, if you want to autofocus on something while using OVF, that's near any of the edges or corners.  It hasn't been for me; practically, my subjects are just not that near the corners, but I totally get the objection.

If you're using liveview, DPAF will allow you to autofocus anywhere; just tap on what you want focused on.  Or turn on touch shutter, and it will focus and snap the picture.  Worth noting, if you've never used it, dual pixel autofocus is awesome.

Why are we, again, hearing about "AF spread issues" when it's been demonstrated over and over that the 6D2's AF spread is comparable to the 5D series and the D750?  There is no issue unless you expect crop-level AF coverage on a FF camera.

Larsskv

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 06:20:56 PM »
I haven't used a 7D, but there's nothing wrong with the speed or accuracy of 6DII autofocus (it's great).  The issue is that since they took the (excellent) 80D autofocus system and dropped it into a full frame camera, there's a lot of real estate that isn't under autofocus.  I'm sure you can see pictures of the AF pattern.

Practically, is that an issue?  It could be, if you want to autofocus on something while using OVF, that's near any of the edges or corners.  It hasn't been for me; practically, my subjects are just not that near the corners, but I totally get the objection.

If you're using liveview, DPAF will allow you to autofocus anywhere; just tap on what you want focused on.  Or turn on touch shutter, and it will focus and snap the picture.  Worth noting, if you've never used it, dual pixel autofocus is awesome.

Why are we, again, hearing about "AF spread issues" when it's been demonstrated over and over that the 6D2's AF spread is comparable to the 5D series and the D750?  There is no issue unless you expect crop-level AF coverage on a FF camera.

I am not shure what you think is comparable, but the 5DIII has a wider and taller spread than the 6DII. And the 5DIV has wider spread than the 5DIII. It's easy to compare here. Scroll down to "Autofocus":

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Mark-II.aspx

LonelyBoy

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 08:22:31 PM »
I haven't used a 7D, but there's nothing wrong with the speed or accuracy of 6DII autofocus (it's great).  The issue is that since they took the (excellent) 80D autofocus system and dropped it into a full frame camera, there's a lot of real estate that isn't under autofocus.  I'm sure you can see pictures of the AF pattern.

Practically, is that an issue?  It could be, if you want to autofocus on something while using OVF, that's near any of the edges or corners.  It hasn't been for me; practically, my subjects are just not that near the corners, but I totally get the objection.

If you're using liveview, DPAF will allow you to autofocus anywhere; just tap on what you want focused on.  Or turn on touch shutter, and it will focus and snap the picture.  Worth noting, if you've never used it, dual pixel autofocus is awesome.

Why are we, again, hearing about "AF spread issues" when it's been demonstrated over and over that the 6D2's AF spread is comparable to the 5D series and the D750?  There is no issue unless you expect crop-level AF coverage on a FF camera.

I am not shure what you think is comparable, but the 5DIII has a wider and taller spread than the 6DII. And the 5DIV has wider spread than the 5DIII. It's easy to compare here. Scroll down to "Autofocus":

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Mark-II.aspx

That's really not much difference.  It's overlaid here with the D750 that people were comparing it to pre-launch:

The af point spread is so awful!

Just for reference, the 6D2 AF point spread is almost identical to the D750; a bit better spread in the vertical direction and a bit worse in the horizontal direction.  The way the review presented it was a bit misleading.



And I just don't see any of these as meaningfully different.  Are you really going to be able to get the shot with one and not the other?  Really?  Your target would have to be so precisely just-outside-the-6D2's to be also in the others' AF points.  And then this really doesn't show you the true extent anyway, because the AF points extend past the indicated area on the VF.  And do we know the exact distance of that extent for all of these?  I just don't get how the difference here is enough to make someone's decision.  Like the 50mpx of the 5DS/R vs the 46mpx of the D850.

Don Haines

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 08:48:35 PM »
Let's see......

Comparing the spread of a FF AF sensor to the spread of a APS-C sensor.... a meaningless comparison.....

Comparing 45 points in a rectangle  to 19 points in a triangle.... once again, not really a comparison.....

Comparing a -0.5EV AF sensitivity to -3.0EV..... ok, that one is easy!

Comparing a 2009 camera against a 2017 camera..... once again, not really a comparison.....

As well, none of us have had a 6D2 long enough to really get a feel for the accuracy of the AF system, plus, as a new camera, there is not even an update for Reikan Focal for it yet, so I would also include in the list that we are comparing an AFMA'd camera against one that is not calibrated.

All that said, the AF system on the 6D2 APPEARS to be better, but until you can properly AFMA the 6D2,  all comparisons are with a * in the footnotes....
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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 08:48:35 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 10:17:25 PM »
Let's see......

Comparing the spread of a FF AF sensor to the spread of a APS-C sensor.... a meaningless comparison.....

Comparing 45 points in a rectangle  to 19 points in a triangle.... once again, not really a comparison.....

Comparing a -0.5EV AF sensitivity to -3.0EV..... ok, that one is easy!

Comparing a 2009 camera against a 2017 camera..... once again, not really a comparison.....

As well, none of us have had a 6D2 long enough to really get a feel for the accuracy of the AF system, plus, as a new camera, there is not even an update for Reikan Focal for it yet, so I would also include in the list that we are comparing an AFMA'd camera against one that is not calibrated.

All that said, the AF system on the 6D2 APPEARS to be better, but until you can properly AFMA the 6D2,  all comparisons are with a * in the footnotes....

I think that you can do a AFMA using Focal in File Mode, but I could be wrong.  Give it atry.

Larsskv

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2017, 04:20:46 AM »
I haven't used a 7D, but there's nothing wrong with the speed or accuracy of 6DII autofocus (it's great).  The issue is that since they took the (excellent) 80D autofocus system and dropped it into a full frame camera, there's a lot of real estate that isn't under autofocus.  I'm sure you can see pictures of the AF pattern.

Practically, is that an issue?  It could be, if you want to autofocus on something while using OVF, that's near any of the edges or corners.  It hasn't been for me; practically, my subjects are just not that near the corners, but I totally get the objection.

If you're using liveview, DPAF will allow you to autofocus anywhere; just tap on what you want focused on.  Or turn on touch shutter, and it will focus and snap the picture.  Worth noting, if you've never used it, dual pixel autofocus is awesome.

Why are we, again, hearing about "AF spread issues" when it's been demonstrated over and over that the 6D2's AF spread is comparable to the 5D series and the D750?  There is no issue unless you expect crop-level AF coverage on a FF camera.

I am not shure what you think is comparable, but the 5DIII has a wider and taller spread than the 6DII. And the 5DIV has wider spread than the 5DIII. It's easy to compare here. Scroll down to "Autofocus":

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Mark-II.aspx

That's really not much difference.  It's overlaid here with the D750 that people were comparing it to pre-launch:

The af point spread is so awful!

Just for reference, the 6D2 AF point spread is almost identical to the D750; a bit better spread in the vertical direction and a bit worse in the horizontal direction.  The way the review presented it was a bit misleading.



And I just don't see any of these as meaningfully different.  Are you really going to be able to get the shot with one and not the other?  Really?  Your target would have to be so precisely just-outside-the-6D2's to be also in the others' AF points.  And then this really doesn't show you the true extent anyway, because the AF points extend past the indicated area on the VF.  And do we know the exact distance of that extent for all of these?  I just don't get how the difference here is enough to make someone's decision.  Like the 50mpx of the 5DS/R vs the 46mpx of the D850.

Why do you show an example of the Nikon D750. Your claim was that the 6DII had the same spread as the 5DIII, and that is wrong.

And how is it noticable? I have the 1DXII and the 5Ds. The spread of AF points is only slightly bigger on the 1DXII, but I really do notice a difference.

Edit: after comparing the spread of AF points, my estimate is that the AF point 5DIII spread is 30% wider than the 6DII.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 04:28:20 AM by Larsskv »

SecureGSM

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 04:45:41 AM »
red- 6D II
blue - 5D IV

if you, guys, still believe that the AF spread is almost identical, then never mind... next one! :)

SecureGSM

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2017, 04:55:27 AM »
yes, it could be done. I have done it few times so far in file mode.

what needs to be done though is EXIF of the file has to be altered so that Focal is under impression that files are from 6D original.

I used EXIF Pilot to modify EXIF data and replaced camera model value Canon 6D Mark II for Canon 6D.
Once done, Focal will happily run AFMA analysis on the files and report that camera analysed was Canon 6D.



I think that you can do a AFMA using Focal in File Mode, but I could be wrong.  Give it atry.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 05:00:00 AM by SecureGSM »

Don Haines

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2017, 05:18:08 AM »
red- 6D II
blue - 5D IV

if you, guys, still believe that the AF spread is almost identical, then never mind... next one! :)
You do realize that you are comparing the 5D4 against the 6D? Note the 11 AF points in your diagram.....
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SecureGSM

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 05:22:41 AM »
no, this is 6d II. that is not 11 AF points of 6D original.

attached 6D II overlay over 6D original. in the previous post I contoured 6D II AF points in red and 5D IV in blue.

red- 6D II
blue - 5D IV

if you, guys, still believe that the AF spread is almost identical, then never mind... next one! :)
You do realize that you are comparing the 5D4 against the 6D? Note the 11 AF points in your diagram.....
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 05:25:30 AM by SecureGSM »

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 05:22:41 AM »

Larsskv

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 06:28:12 AM »
Good work, SecureGSM!  :)

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Re: Compare autofocus of the 6D2 to original 7D
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 06:28:12 AM »