December 12, 2017, 07:25:57 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept  (Read 9112 times)

BeenThere

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 01:23:48 PM »
Would this be a square or circular sensor for an axisymmetric design. Non axisymmetric lens would be much more expensive (anamorphic?).

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 01:23:48 PM »

keithcooper

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2017, 01:45:39 PM »
Would this be a square or circular sensor for an axisymmetric design. Non axisymmetric lens would be much more expensive (anamorphic?).
No, the patent shows a rectangular sensor. The circular part is the holder for the assembly.   This does make the whole assembly quite large compared to the sensor size.

The actual patent covers a stacked sensor and how the interface between the two handles the bending.

See the other drawing and translated text in the linked NI post.

The curved sensor would however be very tricky to use with a shifted lens.

JoseB

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2017, 04:45:40 PM »
We are dealing with only a few microns flexing, don't we?
Not a bunch of milimeters.
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JMZawodny

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2017, 05:03:55 PM »
I hope these curved sensors go no where, as it would make Canon's new lens design job easier, 3rd party lenses would have to be Canon-specific, and the general consumer would lose as a result.
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Joules

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2017, 05:21:42 PM »
I hope these curved sensors go no where, as it would make Canon's new lens design job easier, 3rd party lenses would have to be Canon-specific, and the general consumer would lose as a result.

But according to the images in the initial post the sensors curvature can be changed. It can also be falt, so it would be fully compatible with all current lenses and designs. So, the general consumer would simply get more choices, which isn't really losing in my eyes.

Also, if it enables lenses to be lighter, smaller or cheaper without any loss in image quality, than I'd really like to see it implemented.

dak723

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2017, 08:10:40 PM »
I hope these curved sensors go no where, as it would make Canon's new lens design job easier, 3rd party lenses would have to be Canon-specific, and the general consumer would lose as a result.

Existing lenses would work the same and future lenses designed for this sensor should have much better performance on the edges and corners.  Sounds like a win win situation for everyone.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2017, 10:59:02 PM »
There have been number of Canon patents for a variable curved sensor, but apparently the issues arising from stresses in bending the sensor made them impractical.  The latest one is at least the 5th one.  I wish Keith would publish the patent number, the link to the Japanese patent site never seems to bring up the patent for me, and I've been unable to link it in my posts.

I believe this one is for a method of bending the sensor mechanically using a mesh reinforcement to distribute the stress.  I doubt that it will happen, but Canon obviously sees a advantage for curved sensors and has been working actively on them.  Smaller, lighter lenses to match a small mirrorless camera?  I actually think a curved sensor is going to happen sooner than we might think, Canon usually does things in stages, so first we may see a fixed lens camera where its easier.

http://thenewcamera.com/canon-working-on-curve-sensor-new/ (2016-173496)

http://thenewcamera.com/canon-patent-hybrid-curve-sensor/ (2016-201425)

http://thenewcamera.com/canon-patent-curve-sensor-iii/  (2016-197663)

http://thenewcamera.com/canon-patent-hybrid-curve-sensor-with-piezoelectric-elements/  (2016-213571)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 01:21:26 AM by Mt Spokane Photography »

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2017, 10:59:02 PM »

Jopa

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2017, 11:50:41 PM »
I could be wrong, but I think that's one of those "protective" patents that unlikely will see the light.

Antono Refa

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2017, 02:47:48 AM »
I could be wrong, but I think that's one of those "protective" patents that unlikely will see the light.

The patent was published, so it has seen the light of day ;-)

Question is whether it would see the back side of a lens.

keithcooper

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2017, 04:21:42 AM »
...  I wish Keith would publish the patent number, the link to the Japanese patent site never seems to bring up the patent for me, and I've been unable to link it in my posts.
...
Sorry for the lack of info with some - the links in the hi-lows blog fail with Google Translate, since the Japanese patent office site blocks 'automated access' or some such

I'll try and remember to put the direct patent number in from the Japanese text - the only translated bits I see are after copying blocks of text directly into the translation.

Update: Added a link and found that the Japanese patent site seems to dislike deep links, so I've put a URL in, in full
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 04:40:39 AM by keithcooper »

Bahrd

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2017, 06:21:04 AM »


What I had in mind is the smaller microlenses will direct less light into the pixels than gapless microlenses.

That is a good point.

If there is 5% gap between lens due to flexing, the reduction in area will be 10%.  Not a terribly large difference, about a 1/6th of a stop.

Cannot microlenses remain gapless but simply put upside down? That is, with a flat side on "top"?

Khufu

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2017, 04:16:21 PM »
Well, we won't be getting any true sub-44mm single-lens-element lenses on a 44mm flange EF mount, so it's just going to necessitate differently calibrated witchcraftery for wide angle lenses to work on an EF mount, right? Multiple lens lines using the same mount system during the crossover phase would also be a bit messy...

I can only really see this being put to use in a new system; fixed lens to begin with would be my guess, then maybe on to a shorter flange interchangable-lens mirrorless gizmo?  A whole Full Frame sensor could wrap itself around a pinhole-like element at around 10mm for close to 180 degrees... sort of, couldn't it? 

The idea of 24mm lenses actually at 24mm is cool! There's a chance my basic ideas of physics are way off, I'm just having fun thinking about possibilities!
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Normalnorm

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2017, 03:35:19 PM »
While this is clever, it presumes a flexible sensor that AFAIK is not in existence.

My question is: Can one patent the idea of a mechanism to control the curve of a flexible sensor when that sensor inhabits the realm of fantasy? I suppose it could also be a general patent that describes the adjustment of a flexible material in general.

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2017, 03:35:19 PM »

keithcooper

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2017, 04:22:23 PM »
While this is clever, it presumes a flexible sensor that AFAIK is not in existence.

My question is: Can one patent the idea of a mechanism to control the curve of a flexible sensor when that sensor inhabits the realm of fantasy? I suppose it could also be a general patent that describes the adjustment of a flexible material in general.

There are plenty of working examples of curved sensors, so thin enough chips will bend, but this one adds adjustable bending. The actual patent discusses this in terms of a stacked sensor and looks at interchip communication.

Making a chip that bends repeatably is indeed a challenge...

Khufu

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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2017, 04:50:49 PM »
These sensors just need micro-hinges between the pixels, but hinges need oiling; I recall Nikon testing out an early self-oiling sensor in the D600...
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Re: Patent: Variable Curved Image Sensor Concept
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2017, 04:50:49 PM »