September 23, 2017, 09:03:42 AM

Author Topic: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies  (Read 3152 times)

koolman

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Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« on: August 22, 2017, 05:08:29 AM »
As the crop cameras advance and have pro versions like the 7d + 80d - why is canon not producing pro level EFS lenses ? Like an upgrade to the ancient 17-55 ? or a wide angle prime say 15mm 2.8 ? Serious canon crop users are forced to purchase FF L lenses - and waste allot of money ?
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Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« on: August 22, 2017, 05:08:29 AM »

Woody

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 05:31:23 AM »
Many folks ask the same questions many times.

But Canon isn't the only guilty party. All the major players like Nikon and Sony are just as awful in this regard.

Sigh...

Maximilian

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 06:12:46 AM »
Many folks ask the same questions many times.

But Canon isn't the only guilty party. All the major players like Nikon and Sony are just as awful in this regard.

Sigh...
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Mikehit

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 06:32:30 AM »
As the crop cameras advance and have pro versions like the 7d + 80d - why is canon not producing pro level EFS lenses ? Like an upgrade to the ancient 17-55 ? or a wide angle prime say 15mm 2.8 ? Serious canon crop users are forced to purchase FF L lenses - and waste allot of money ?

How much cheaper do you think 'pro grade APS-C' lenses would be than FF equivalents?
Are you comparing FOV or absolute focal length?

Dvash7

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 07:00:55 AM »
As the crop cameras advance and have pro versions like the 7d + 80d - why is canon not producing pro level EFS lenses ? Like an upgrade to the ancient 17-55 ? or a wide angle prime say 15mm 2.8 ? Serious canon crop users are forced to purchase FF L lenses - and waste allot of money ?

How much cheaper do you think 'pro grade APS-C' lenses would be than FF equivalents?
Are you comparing FOV or absolute focal length?

Exactly this. I had the 17-55mm and while it was an excellent lens, it's not on par with say the 24-70 f/2.8 II and it isn't cheap, either.
Would you pay over $1,000 for a top of the line EF-S lens that you then can't use if you ever decide to go FF or would you rather save a bit more and get L glass right off the bat?

koolman

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 07:58:23 AM »
[How much cheaper do you think 'pro grade APS-C' lenses would be than FF equivalents?
Are you comparing FOV or absolute focal length?
[/quote]

Exactly this. I had the 17-55mm and while it was an excellent lens, it's not on par with say the 24-70 f/2.8 II and it isn't cheap, either.
Would you pay over $1,000 for a top of the line EF-S lens that you then can't use if you ever decide to go FF or would you rather save a bit more and get L glass right off the bat?
[/quote]

For Wide angle primes / and or fast zooms  there would be a substantial difference in price - as the cost of producing the optics for FF is much more then crop - see the Fuji fast f/2 primes .
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LDS

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 09:21:24 AM »
As the crop cameras advance and have pro versions like the 7d + 80d - why is canon not producing pro level EFS lenses?

Canon doesn't regard the 7D - and even more so the 80D, as "pro" cameras:

https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/dslr-cameras/

whatever their specs are, and whoever uses them for :)

Duplicating the high-end lens line would be expensive (for Canon, design/manufacturing/etc.), and would need to be justified by an increase not only in sales, but in profit. Actually, selling items with higher margins (FF L lenses...) is probably good for Canon. Manufacturing planning becomes also much more complex.

Increasing design/manufacturing/etc costs to sell lenses which could bring less profits from a business point of view doesn't make sense unless the increased sales offset these disadvantages.

Would sales of "EF-S L" lenses would soar so much to make them a sound business case? Would 7D owners buy more lenses than those they actually buy? I don't think so, and neither Canon, I an afraid.

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 09:21:24 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 09:26:29 AM »
At a high level, generically speaking FF sensors produce better images than APS-C sensors.  It makes more sense that the higher quality optics are designed for use with the higher quality sensors. 
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koolman

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2017, 08:13:55 AM »
At a high level, generically speaking FF sensors produce better images than APS-C sensors.  It makes more sense that the higher quality optics are designed for use with the higher quality sensors.

I understand that the FF line is a step ahead of the crop. However this advantage has been blurred over the past few years - and many high end /professional users - use high end crop camera systems. They prefer the lower weight / cost /size of the equipment. Today everybody extensively post processes - and that blurs the advantage of the FF sensor + optics even more. Digital Photography became less about optics and more about electronics.

I'm not in the camera sales business - but it seems to be a smart move for canon to offer a line of lenses for the type of user - who is migrating to fuji/sony/ etc. in search of a crop / high end option with fast primes zooms etc.

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dak723

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2017, 08:46:48 AM »

I'm not in the camera sales business - but it seems to be a smart move for canon to offer a line of lenses for the type of user - who is migrating to fuji/sony/ etc. in search of a crop / high end option with fast primes zooms etc.

If it was a smart move for Canon they would - or will - do it.  Obviously their market research tells them the the vast majority of Crop camera buyers are not in the market for expensive "pro" level EF-S lenses at this time.  It seems as if many of the higher-end enthusiast or pro crop users are getting crop cameras for the "reach" advantage.  They are more than likely buying "L" EF lenses in that case.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:51:02 AM by dak723 »

Mikehit

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2017, 08:48:07 AM »


I'm not in the camera sales business - but it seems to be a smart move for canon to offer a line of lenses for the type of user - who is migrating to fuji/sony/ etc. in search of a crop / high end option with fast primes zooms etc.

Again - what do you see as the advantage of this? Are Canon L lenses much more expensive than Fuji equivalents?Not from what I see. And Canon users are more likely I think to shift to Sony for their FF models. And the Sony lenses are more expensive.

How much cheaper do you think Canon 'pro grade' lenses will be than the L equivalents?


neuroanatomist

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2017, 09:02:45 AM »
I'm not in the camera sales business - but it seems to be a smart move for canon to offer a line of lenses for the type of user - who is migrating to fuji/sony/ etc. in search of a crop / high end option with fast primes zooms etc.

Well, Canon is in the camera sales business, and their market share is solid evidence that they're pretty good at it.  So far, they haven't thought your idea would be a 'smart move'.

Although I'd have liked an L-level EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS when I shot with a 7D, but I recognize that my personal desire for something doesn't make it a smart corporate move.
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LDS

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 11:17:32 AM »
They prefer the lower weight / cost /size of the equipment.

A 7D is not a small camera. The EF mount design and lens IS also means lenses can't be too small.

"Cost" means different thing to different people.

Today everybody extensively post processes - and that blurs the advantage of the FF sensor + optics even more. Digital Photography became less about optics and more about electronics.

In some market segments, maybe, but not all segments and not everybody. Digital processing can do a lot, but not everything - and often it just lead to too many "identical" images.


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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 11:17:32 AM »

cellomaster27

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 12:52:16 PM »


I'm not in the camera sales business - but it seems to be a smart move for canon to offer a line of lenses for the type of user - who is migrating to fuji/sony/ etc. in search of a crop / high end option with fast primes zooms etc.

Again - what do you see as the advantage of this? Are Canon L lenses much more expensive than Fuji equivalents?Not from what I see. And Canon users are more likely I think to shift to Sony for their FF models. And the Sony lenses are more expensive.

How much cheaper do you think Canon 'pro grade' lenses will be than the L equivalents?

If you look at what the entire system offers, i.e. canon versus Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, etc.. You just have to buy that equipment for what you need to shoot.  All of the other systems are great but only for the general consumer.  They are limiting in what you can do - i.e. focal range and special lenses.  Now you can buy mounts/converters to add lenses - sure.  But I think what needs to happen is canon comes out with a really really good aps-c mirrorless and FF.  Those cameras can match the market of other companies. 

And I concur with the others here that have mentioned EF glass..  If you have used EF L lenses, personally it doesn't make much sense for canon to make glass that good specifically for aps-c cameras.  I think it would be a waste of R&D.  I have the 10-22mm EF-S lens and that's amazing but for all other applications, I've been investing in EF lenses - totally worth it. 
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2n10

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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »
I would like to see an update to the EF-s 17-55 also as I love the lens.  I would also love for it to have a "L" quality build.  But, having the EF-s 10-22 the EF 24-70 f/2.8 would probably be a better fit in my lens arsenal for a relative fast lens although the price is a bit of a pain.

I know there have been discussions on this subject and one of the reasons calculated by this forum seems quite good for why the economics argument is sound besides the parallel lines cost.  Most crop users tend to use one or two lenses and tend to not move to the higher quality lenses as the crop lenses more than meet their needs.
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Re: Upgraded Pro Canon Lenses for Crop Bodies
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »