November 21, 2017, 01:21:30 AM

Author Topic: The highend comparison ;-)  (Read 7510 times)

daniela

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The highend comparison ;-)
« on: August 23, 2017, 02:26:22 AM »
Michael the Maven posted an youtube video on an comparison of the highend bodies.
Interestingly the Sony A9 performed superior to the other bodies in some aspects. I would like to see this features in my Canon bodies too. As he said, sony lists to its customers. I do not think Canon or Nikon does.
You can watch it at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xo9qKPVhEk
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:30:56 AM by daniela »

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The highend comparison ;-)
« on: August 23, 2017, 02:26:22 AM »

Mikehit

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 03:50:56 AM »
Michael the Maven posted an youtube video on an comparison of the highend bodies.
Interestingly the Sony A9 performed superior to the other bodies in some aspects. I would like to see this features in my Canon bodies too. As he said, sony lists to its customers. I do not think Canon or Nikon does.
You can watch it at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xo9qKPVhEk

Rather than having me wade through that video, can you explain where you think Sony are superior what you want Canon to do?
To say that Canon does to listen to its customers is plain dumb - listening to them is why you have massive outcries from a very vocal minority every time Canon release a new body but it still ends up selling well.

daniela

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 05:30:52 AM »
Michael the Maven posted an youtube video on an comparison of the highend bodies.
Interestingly the Sony A9 performed superior to the other bodies in some aspects. I would like to see this features in my Canon bodies too. As he said, sony lists to its customers. I do not think Canon or Nikon does.
You can watch it at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xo9qKPVhEk

Rather than having me wade through that video, can you explain where you think Sony are superior what you want Canon to do?
To say that Canon does to listen to its customers is plain dumb - listening to them is why you have massive outcries from a very vocal minority every time Canon release a new body but it still ends up selling well.
Hi Mikehit!
Edit: You missed my ";-)" in the headline
If Canon would listen to our wishes, they would have given us more dynamic range on the 6D MK II and 4K  ;)

What I like at the Alpha 9 is the quiet noiseless burst shooting mode (and this is an big plus if you shott in the near of birds), the low noise at >1600 ISO and the tracking AF (when our model jumped with the skateboard, the nearly field covering AF followed the head precisely)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:26:26 PM by daniela »

PavelR

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 07:05:12 AM »
I like also:
* reviewing image in the viewfinder
* zebra/histogram in the viewfinder before image is captured
* Eye AF - recomposing from left 1/3 to right 1/3 can be done only by moving camera and eye is still in the focus

soloyc

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2017, 08:20:43 AM »
Canon listened to most of the customers and the market in designing the 6DII: they provided an improved AF system, increased the frame rate, improved weather sealing and added a swivel screen. Those features were suggested from almost day 1. However, I do not remember reading from most of the 6D owners that the DR was so bad that it was the most important feature to improve...

But I disgress and regarding the high end bodies, I do not believe Canon did not listen to its target customers either: does anyone complain about bad DR and 4K on the 1DXII?

Michael the Maven posted an youtube video on an comparison of the highend bodies.
Interestingly the Sony A9 performed superior to the other bodies in some aspects. I would like to see this features in my Canon bodies too. As he said, sony lists to its customers. I do not think Canon or Nikon does.
You can watch it at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xo9qKPVhEk

Rather than having me wade through that video, can you explain where you think Sony are superior what you want Canon to do?
To say that Canon does to listen to its customers is plain dumb - listening to them is why you have massive outcries from a very vocal minority every time Canon release a new body but it still ends up selling well.
Hi Mikehit!
If Canon would listen to our wishes, they would have given us more dynamic range on the 6D MK II and 4K  ;)

What I like at the Alpha 9 is the quiet burst shooting mode (and this is an big plus if you shott in the near of birds), the low noise at >1600 ISO and the tracking AF (when our model jumped with the skateboard, the nearly field covering AF followed the head precisely)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 08:27:03 AM by soloyc »

Dylan777

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 09:44:09 AM »
I like also:
* reviewing image in the viewfinder
* zebra/histogram in the viewfinder before image is captured
* Eye AF - recomposing from left 1/3 to right 1/3 can be done only by moving camera and eye is still in the focus

My number #1 favorite feature as mirrorless shooter, especially, shooting with f1.4 primes.

A9 addressed many-many minor issues from A7 plus new improvements: battery life, colors, buffers, etc....A9 has everything I ever wanted from mirrorless system. It will stay in bag for many years to come  ;)

Mikehit

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 10:03:35 AM »

Hi Mikehit!
If Canon would listen to our wishes, they would have given us more dynamic range on the 6D MK II and 4K  ;)

What I like at the Alpha 9 is the quiet burst shooting mode (and this is an big plus if you shott in the near of birds), the low noise at >1600 ISO and the tracking AF (when our model jumped with the skateboard, the nearly field covering AF followed the head precisely)

I agree with soloyc - more DR is certainly welcome but not top of the list. And even then, the 5DIV, 80D and 1Dx are so close to Sony in practical terms that to pick the 6D2 as a criticism of Canon as a whole is stretching a point.
As for 4k? That has been done to death so many times and is probably way behind DR as an essential upgrade.
I have a 7D2 and 6D and the quite mode is excellent, but I also have a 1Dx2 and have not scared any birds yet even from as close as 5metres.

The coverage of AF points is not a result of Canon's inability to design effective AF but is about their preference for phase AF rather than contrast AF.
But overall, many (nearly all) of the non-sensor advantages of the Sony arise from its design as a mirrorless camera and for some very good reasons Canon has decided to remain concentrated on DSLR.

When Sony get anywhere near the success of Canon then I will have more sympathy with comments as to whether Canon listen to their customers. Bear in mind Canon is #2 in mirrorless as well!

I am not being a fanboy on this by any means -  I would love to have all the functions that Sony offer in Canon DSLRs. But it is all about balancing the different priorities from the masses of marketing feedback that they get and when people talk about 'listening to customers' then the only true test is how many customers by their products (ie do they get the balance of issues right). Otherwise 'listening to customers' is really nothing more than 'listening to me'.


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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2017, 10:03:35 AM »

BillB

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 10:54:20 AM »
I like also:
* reviewing image in the viewfinder
* zebra/histogram in the viewfinder before image is captured
* Eye AF - recomposing from left 1/3 to right 1/3 can be done only by moving camera and eye is still in the focus

It's not all that easy to do image review or zebra stripes in an optiical viewfinder.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 11:10:42 AM »
Very often, there is a trade off, you can get features that sound nice, but only by also adding features that are unwanted.  Its a juggling act to produce something that appeals to the largest number of customers.  Generally, that means pricing entry level models at the lowest possible price.

If a person wants features found in a $4500 camera body for $2000, they are dreaming.  Pony up your $4500 and see what you get.

unfocused

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 11:54:02 AM »
Skimmed through the video. Seems pretty much of a joke. Particularly amused by the "sports" test which consisted of a single person jogging back and forth. A situation no sports photographer ever encounters. The more common challenge for autofocus is to keep the camera focused on the correct subject when you've got a field full of other players moving in and out of the frame.

Anyway, not sure what the point here is supposed to be. Buyers of the Canon and Nikon flagships are already heavily invested in the brand and have made their decision based on past experience. Sure, if one company consistently lagged behind on key features, it might have an impact, but that's not the case. There simply isn't that much difference between the two flagships and candidly, Sony isn't even in the game yet. 

privatebydesign

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 12:30:42 PM »
I like also:
* reviewing image in the viewfinder
* zebra/histogram in the viewfinder before image is captured
* Eye AF - recomposing from left 1/3 to right 1/3 can be done only by moving camera and eye is still in the focus

My number #1 favorite feature as mirrorless shooter, especially, shooting with f1.4 primes.

A9 addressed many-many minor issues from A7 plus new improvements: battery life, colors, buffers, etc....A9 has everything I ever wanted from mirrorless system. It will stay in bag for many years to come  ;)

How many times have you thought that Dylan?  ;)   ;D
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

daniela

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 02:21:37 PM »
Skimmed through the video. Seems pretty much of a joke. Particularly amused by the "sports" test which consisted of a single person jogging back and forth. A situation no sports photographer ever encounters. The more common challenge for autofocus is to keep the camera focused on the correct subject when you've got a field full of other players moving in and out of the frame.

Anyway, not sure what the point here is supposed to be. Buyers of the Canon and Nikon flagships are already heavily invested in the brand and have made their decision based on past experience. Sure, if one company consistently lagged behind on key features, it might have an impact, but that's not the case. There simply isn't that much difference between the two flagships and candidly, Sony isn't even in the game yet.

This was the reason, why I added the ";-)" in the headline.
Yes, Sony has to struggle, to come close to Nikon/Canon. But in some years, maybe they are. They are doing hard on it, just see the frequent announcements of lenses (and they are often high end).
As I´ve been critizied hard today, when I wrote that in my Country the Sony service ist not good (and it isn´t!), the service quality is an lacked buying-decision.
But it is hard to resist the GAS-virus, when you read some postings here. Especially, when you join an workshop and an Sony specialist tells you how to use the body and asks for feedback afterwards. And Sony called me later...

daniela

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 02:29:09 PM »
I like also:
* reviewing image in the viewfinder
* zebra/histogram in the viewfinder before image is captured
* Eye AF - recomposing from left 1/3 to right 1/3 can be done only by moving camera and eye is still in the focus

My number #1 favorite feature as mirrorless shooter, especially, shooting with f1.4 primes.

A9 addressed many-many minor issues from A7 plus new improvements: battery life, colors, buffers, etc....A9 has everything I ever wanted from mirrorless system. It will stay in bag for many years to come  ;)

Maybe you will switch to canon, when they build an FF MLS too...  ;D
http://www.*********.com/canon-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-eventually-coming-2018-sensor-30mp/

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2017, 02:29:09 PM »

unfocused

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 02:32:37 PM »
...But it is hard to resist the GAS-virus, when you read some postings here. Especially, when you join an workshop and an Sony specialist tells you how to use the body and asks for feedback afterwards. And Sony called me later...

Valid point. Sony is trying hard to capture a share of the high-end market (good for them and good for us, if it makes Canon and Nikon more competitive). I have to admit, I'm biased against "Michael the Maven"  because he used to regularly troll this site with posts trying to promote his videos.

Some people on this site defend Canon's autofocus with religious fervor. Frankly I tend to agree with DPR, that it still has a lot of room for improvement and I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Nikon may be superior in that regard.   

daniela

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 02:42:10 PM »
...But it is hard to resist the GAS-virus, when you read some postings here. Especially, when you join an workshop and an Sony specialist tells you how to use the body and asks for feedback afterwards. And Sony called me later...

Valid point. Sony is trying hard to capture a share of the high-end market (good for them and good for us, if it makes Canon and Nikon more competitive). I have to admit, I'm biased against "Michael the Maven"  because he used to regularly troll this site with posts trying to promote his videos.

Some people on this site defend Canon's autofocus with religious fervor. Frankly I tend to agree with DPR, that it still has a lot of room for improvement and I'm willing to entertain the possibility that Nikon may be superior in that regard.
Ok, I did not know that the Video author is promoting his videos here. Thanks.

AF: Yes, I´m still struggling to get most out of the AF system of the 5D MK IV. Last week terns took everything out of the AF system, when they performed varios high-speed-batturns over an lake surface. And it takes a lot of concentration to deal well with this body.
I´m still not satisfied with the AF, when birds come directly toward to you. A lot of these shots are unsharp. Laterally passing birds and birds that fly away are no problem.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 02:45:20 PM by daniela »

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Re: The highend comparison ;-)
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2017, 02:42:10 PM »