December 18, 2017, 12:31:51 AM

Author Topic: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018  (Read 6791 times)

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Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« on: September 01, 2017, 01:05:37 PM »
According to Newsshooter, Canon will bring a new codec to the Cinema EOS C200 camera in early 2018 as a free “upgrade”.

The new codec will be XF-AVC YCbCr 4:2:0 8bit and will be recorded to the SD slot, and not the CFast 2.0 slot.

Most of the world likely wanted to see a 10bit 4:2:2 codec in the EOS C200, but Canon does have a history of not wanting to add features to a product you can already get in a higher end product, and in this case, that is the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II. Canon also said that they have no intention of adding an internal 10bit 4:2:2 codec to the EOS C200.

Be sure to head over to Newsshooter for some more in-depth analysis of this decision by Canon.

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Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« on: September 01, 2017, 01:05:37 PM »

CanonGuy

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 02:29:54 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.
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joejohnbear

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 04:05:46 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.

RayValdez360

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 04:23:16 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.
its crazy how  people on CR love to talk down to people when a huge Corporation intentionally cripples expensive  products that makes like harder for the working stiff that uses  their product to make a living.  dvxuser forumites were trash talking the people here  about how you guys accept anything from Canon.   Someone did mention that most people here are  mainly photographers and are ignorant to the struggles of  professional videographers and cinematographers.  It's like a company making a 50 MP  DSLR that doesnt shoot L Jpeg Just S and S2. Why do their make their customers spend 10K for a decent codec when  everyone else even CANON  offers it for hundreds on inferior cameras. If I am spending $7500,  the cinema camera has to be up to spec for  the next 5 years. 

cinema-dslr

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 05:02:16 PM »
It's rather silly that canon intentionally crippled this camera by withholding a solid internal 10bit codec and limiting the 10bit output via hdmi/sdi to 1080p.

the c200 is only 2500,- cheaper as the c300m2 and tc in/out & dual recording slots are reasons enough to justify that markup.
 
The only mildly sensible reasoning behind this move could be to force the implication of the rawlite with the direct in-portability into NLE's wich would bring the many advantages  of raw to the masses.

I'm definitely in the market for this camera but still waiting on how that rawlite workflow will workout. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 06:11:22 PM by cinema-dslr »
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joejohnbear

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 05:41:24 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.
If I am spending $7500

But you're not, so move on.  There's no competing camera with this feature set right now until Sony releases an FS7 Mk.iii.

RayValdez360

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 07:59:54 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.
If I am spending $7500

But you're not, so move on.  There's no competing camera with this feature set right now until Sony releases an FS7 Mk.iii.
How do you know what I am spending, shill?

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 07:59:54 PM »

leGreve

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 05:28:29 AM »
Back in july I was talking to our local retailer.... I was looking at buying a new camera. I was going back and forth between Scarlet Raven, FS7 II and EVA-1 from Panasonic. The C200 was still a mystery, but he was trying to pitch that to me as well because I mentioned I liked the images from the C300 II, although it's form factor is rediculous and I didn't want to throw money at CFast media.

When this news broke with the C200 being stuck at 4:2:0 8 bit, this camera lost all reason to me.

Rawlite would force me to push my 6-core machine to the max even for quick turnaround jobs, as well as my storage, making it obvious I would never use it for anything other than highend work. And the 4:2:0 8 bit while decent, would still require you to shoot perfectly everytime, since the image woudl have very little room for editing.

The EVA-1 turns out to be another "we wont make it easy for you" choice, because Pana has great color science, but honestly, I can't do without 10 bit for slow mo.... and the EVA-1 will only do that to a recorder, again forcing me to spend money on additional items than just the camera and cards.

The Scarlet makes pretty damn good images, but lack in camera audio unless you spend money on the overpriced audio unit. And just to get started you can almost buy two cameras for that price.

In the end, all though it's an old camera now, I settled for the FS7 II and a set of Fujinon MK lenses (18-55 and 55-135 T2.9) which we also had at work. And I have zero regrets... in fact, I'm now very relieved that I didn't fall for the "almost there" camera that is the C200.
I would expect their sales to hit rock bottom from day one. I mean honestly, why the hell would anyone buy that camera.......

Having said that... I'm pretty happy with my 5D4 for stills. It does very decent video as well, but man... I'm over the DSLR format which it comes to video.

swithdrawn

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 11:50:11 AM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.

I was literally about to buy two of these. Now I am not. There are many people like me. As a videographer the only reason I'm still with Canon is the glass investment, and now I'm one step closer to jumping ship completely.

This camera is too expensive to have 8bit 4:2:0 for everyday use, and if you are fine only recording to RAW on ridiculously expensive Cfast media you probably looking at a much more expensive camera package anyway. Thus the C200 ends up not making ANYONE happy. I don't understand, but I am not surprised.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 02:24:31 PM by swithdrawn »
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joejohnbear

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2017, 04:47:53 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.

I was literally about to buy two of these. Now I am not. There are many people like me. As a videographer the only reason I'm still with Canon is the glass investment, and now I'm one step closer to jumping ship completely.

This camera is too expensive to have 8bit 4:2:0 for everyday use, and if you are fine only recording to RAW on ridiculously expensive Cfast media you probably looking at a much more expensive camera package anyway. Thus the C200 ends up not making ANYONE happy. I don't understand, but I am not surprised.

You're shooting two 1DXII's and you have an issue with the file sizes from Raw lite?  Aren't they the same size as the 1DXII MJPEG?

Just buy the FS7 and adapt your lenses if you don't want to bother with an external recorder and SSD's.  You still have to buy XQD cards.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 04:55:57 PM by joejohnbear »

swithdrawn

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 08:08:17 PM »
Just buy the FS7 and adapt your lenses if you don't want to bother with an external recorder and SSD's.  You still have to buy XQD cards.

It's not the file sizes (I dealt with Magic Lantern raw for weddings for two years). To avoid filling up 256gb cfast cards every 20-30 minutes at $600 a pop, with two cameras, I would want to shoot with a lighter codec. But for crying out loud, it's gotta be at least 4:2:2. I would even settle for the same ancient 4:2:2 mjpeg as the 1DXII/5DIV, at least it is high bitrate. Panasonic now have a professional all-I 400Mbit 4:2:2 10 bit codec recording to SD cards in a $1700 camera. There's only so much I can take before the native glass and DPAF are no longer worth it.

Eventually someone will make a sub-$7000 cinema camera with a large sensor, good AF and reasonable codecs recording to inexpensive media. Canon were SOOOOOO close!
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joejohnbear

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 08:47:42 PM »
Just buy the FS7 and adapt your lenses if you don't want to bother with an external recorder and SSD's.  You still have to buy XQD cards.

It's not the file sizes (I dealt with Magic Lantern raw for weddings for two years). To avoid filling up 256gb cfast cards every 20-30 minutes at $600 a pop, with two cameras, I would want to shoot with a lighter codec. But for crying out loud, it's gotta be at least 4:2:2. I would even settle for the same ancient 4:2:2 mjpeg as the 1DXII/5DIV, at least it is high bitrate. Panasonic now have a professional all-I 400Mbit 4:2:2 10 bit codec recording to SD cards in a $1700 camera. There's only so much I can take before the native glass and DPAF are no longer worth it.

Eventually someone will make a sub-$7000 cinema camera with a large sensor, good AF and reasonable codecs recording to inexpensive media. Canon were SOOOOOO close!

Get the Panasonic GH5 and sell your gear then.  The 4:2:2 MJPEG is 800 Mbps while the RAWlite is 1000Mbps when comparing 4K 60P which requires CFAST.  The Arri Alexa, BlackMagic Ursa Mini and a plethora of other cinema cameras use CFAST.  Get the CFAST to ESATA SSD hackaround or and external recorder and SSD's for UHD 4K 4:2:2 and then all your problems are solved, just as on those cameras.  Also, 4:2:0 8 bit should be good enough for weddings; you're not shooting for broadcast standards and Canon has put in a surprising amount of dynamic range and information into the lesser codec.  You can read some of the thorough reviews of it by the Scandinavian fellow from Cinema5D or whatever the website is.

I agree that the omission is quite a nuisance, but no one even expected raw video at 7.5K pricepoint from Canon.  Just use some workarounds or switch your system.  There's no such thing as a perfect tool right now or in the future.

See this DVXuser review for reference: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?356437-Tell-me-why-C200-or-AU-EVA1&p=1986720241&viewfull=1#post1986720241
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 01:52:44 AM by joejohnbear »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 02:29:52 AM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.
If I am spending $7500

But you're not, so move on.  There's no competing camera with this feature set right now until Sony releases an FS7 Mk.iii.
How do you know what I am spending, shill?

Oh, lol, that's too easy.  Because of your
1. syntax
2. anger / name-calling
3. username

Username??? What does the guy's username have to do with anything? Or his syntax?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 02:33:26 AM by CanonFanBoy »
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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 02:29:52 AM »

ranger9913

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 08:38:42 AM »
As someone who owns a C200 and FS7, I can tell you that for 90% of what I need to do, the C200 in MP4 mode is the clear winner. The color science in the C200 is such a relief compared to the FS7, the ISO performance is second to none. For any type of event shooting, I can not imagine picking up the Sony again. I do wish there was a 10bit 4:2:2 option internally, but I think I can easily live without.

As for the RAW, dropping it straight into Resolve, exporting to ProRes HQ has been very easy. It takes about the same amount of time as FCPX does to transcode the 4k MP4. I'm hoping the Resolve RAW tab will soon work with these files.


RayValdez360

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 01:07:40 PM »
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Let's be real, you're probably not in the market for this camera.
If I am spending $7500

But you're not, so move on.  There's no competing camera with this feature set right now until Sony releases an FS7 Mk.iii.
How do you know what I am spending, shill?

Oh, lol, that's too easy.  Because of your
1. syntax
2. anger / name-calling
3. username
I dont get emotional about this. Anyway you are too troll like to take seriously.

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Re: Cinema EOS C200 Codec Update Coming in 2018
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2017, 01:07:40 PM »