May 22, 2018, 07:42:45 PM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]  (Read 43342 times)

snoke

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Re: Crazy idea
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »
if canon is going for ultimate IQ.  DPAF is the last thing they should be implementing. DPAF costs probably around 1/3 to 1/2EV performance off the base sensor going by the only few samples and comparisions we have of similar technology points.  (70D to T6i sensor performance)

60MP FF DSLR = 15MP APS-C DSLR + DPAF.

If real pixel small, maybe not divide pixel.

Also say "new low MP raw mode."
If new low MP raw mode use pixel bin ... follow?

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Re: Crazy idea
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »

Talys

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »
I can't believe that people are calling a 10 megapixel bump low/modest.

I would far prefer 60 superior megapixels to today's 50, than 75 megapixels that are the same quality as the current 5DSr.  Also, I would prefer for onboard RAW preview processing to be as fast it is now for 30 megapixel files, rather than annoyingly slower.

Not that I'm really likely be in the market for either, but who knows, it's Q3/4... maybe Santa will be nice :D :D :D


The question probably boils down to:

Which do you want more, A 60 mpx sensor with the ISO performance of the 80D, or a 120mpx sensor with significantly poorer ISO performance (laws of physics)?

I definitely don't want 80D ISO performance.  I want a 60megapixel sensor with ISO performance like the 6DII :D  ISO 5000 on 6DII cleans up better than ISO 800 on 80D.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 11:42:57 AM by Talys »

SecureGSM

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Re: 120 mp would just make people change to Sigma glass
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2017, 11:39:51 AM »
It was only a joke that failed to impress unfrotunately :-X

with 120Mp sensor resolution shooting hendheld with non stabilised lenses at slower than 1/1000s shutter speed is out of question. Except some exotic UWA glass.

 ::)

shooting for the same print size as with a 5DSr II will yeld the same shutter speeds as you are currently using with the 5DSr.

do you have to shoot everything above 1/1000th of a second with a 20mp 1" sensor camera? or a Olympus 20MP m43 camera?

how do they manage?

benique

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2017, 11:40:44 AM »
The low pixel mode sounds really interesting. For most situations 20-30mpx are enought and the filesizes of the bigger files are just a pain to handle.

Talys

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2017, 11:43:39 AM »
The low pixel mode sounds really interesting. For most situations 20-30mpx are enought and the filesizes of the bigger files are just a pain to handle.

I could not agree more.  If the low megapixel mode means better, downsampled megapixels... that would be really exciting.

mistaspeedy

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2017, 01:00:04 PM »
I think most people have forgotten that Canon has also been developing a 250 megapixel sensor, and that it is smaller than full frame (APS-H) !
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/01/10/canon-continues-developing-their-250-megapixel-aps-h-sensor

Long story short, if you do the math, this equals 250 * 1.57 = ~394 megapixels for a full frame sensor!

They could do a 200 megapixel sensor AND have dual pixel technology.

Obviously this is all a long way off, but in order to aid in the discussion of what is and what is not possible... these two options are totally possible:

60 megapixel sensor with dual pixel technology (120 million pixels)
120 megapixel sensor with dual pixel technology (240 million pixels)

What about framerate? Surely such high megapixel counts would be stuck at 1-2 fps?
NOPE
http://www.popphoto.com/canons-250-megapixel-aps-h-sensor-shoots-5-fps-at-30x-4k-resolution

That 250 megapixel sensor could do 5 FPS back in 2015.

Again doing some more math....
250 megapixels @ 5 FPS
125 megapixels @ 10 FPS
62.5 megapixels @ 20 FPS

Now it is all just a matter of balancing the megapixel count, image quality, shooting speed, features (dual pixel, ADC etc) into a final product.

- So not matter what sensor Canon releases, you can expect 5 FPS minimum unless it is some sort of super niche, no video, no dual pixel, all out stills IQ camera that many seem to want, but Canon refuses to release.

Some other examples of what is going on in the industry:
Nikon D850: 45 megapixels @ 9 FPS = 405 megapixels / second
Panasonic GH5 - 18 megapixels @ 30fps = 540 megapixels / second
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 01:21:46 PM by mistaspeedy »
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Random Orbits

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 01:17:46 PM »
I think most people have forgotten that Canon has also been developing a 250 megapixel sensor, and that it is smaller than full frame (APS-H) !
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/01/10/canon-continues-developing-their-250-megapixel-aps-h-sensor

Long story short, if you do the math, this equals 250 * 1.57 = ~394 megapixels for a full frame sensor!

They could do a 200 megapixel sensor AND have dual pixel technology.

Obviously this is all a long way off, but in order to aid in the discussion of what is and what is not possible... these two options are totally possible:

60 megapixel sensor with dual pixel technology (120 million pixels)
120 megapixel sensor with dual pixel technology (240 million pixels)

What about framerate? Surely such high megapixel counts would be stuck at 1-2 fps?
NOPE
http://www.popphoto.com/canons-250-megapixel-aps-h-sensor-shoots-5-fps-at-30x-4k-resolution

That 250 megapixel sensor could do 5 FPS back in 2015.

Again doing some more math....
250 megapixels @ 5 FPS
125 megapixels @ 10 FPS
62.5 megapixels @ 20 FPS

Now it is all just a matter of balancing the megapixel count, image quality, shooting speed, features (dual pixel, ADC etc) into a final product.

I'm guessing the trick is running it off the limited energy stored in the current batteries.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2017, 01:17:46 PM »

mistaspeedy

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2017, 01:26:04 PM »
I sure there are many limitations, issues and compromises that need to be made before we get a product release of any kind.

This new 60 megapixel rumor could certainly be true with the technology that has already been released in the 80D. Zero technical challenges getting it to market. We'll see what happens.
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jolyonralph

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2017, 01:32:35 PM »
I definitely don't want 80D ISO performance.  I want a 60megapixel sensor with ISO performance like the 6DII :D  ISO 5000 on 6DII cleans up better than ISO 800 on 80D.

That's because of the significantly larger pixel pitch on the 6D II (5.74um vs 3.75um on the 80D)

High quality ISO, high resolution, made by Canon.  Choose any two :)

Jolyon Ralph

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cpsico

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2017, 01:41:06 PM »
If this was an improved version of the 5div new sensor geared purely to high IQ and dynamic range in the lower ISO I would buy this in a heartbeat

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2017, 02:07:55 PM »
The question probably boils down to:

Which do you want more, A 60 mpx sensor with the ISO performance of the 80D, or a 120mpx sensor with significantly poorer ISO performance (laws of physics)?

not true at all. because you ignored oversampling and the fact that if you re-sampled and NR'ed the 120MP data down to 60MP you'd have a cleaner image than the 60MP native.

laws of physics don't take into account sampling theory or post processed NR.

even if you just showed the two images side by side at the same image size, the 120Mp would look cleaner.

what you fully won't make up with oversampling is DR because canon doesn't use BSI.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 02:22:16 PM by rrcphoto »

mistaspeedy

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2017, 02:29:30 PM »
not true at all. because you ignored oversampling and the fact that if you re-sampled and NR'ed the 120MP data down to 60MP you'd have a cleaner image than the 60MP native.

Exactly...

People forget that the 5DsR had the BEST (low ISO) dynamic range of any Canon camera released at the time. But downsampling is needed in order to see this (if viewing on PC)... or just print at the same size as another Canon camera.
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jolyonralph

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2017, 02:33:55 PM »
not true at all. because you ignored oversampling and the fact that if you re-sampled and NR'ed the 120MP data down to 60MP you'd have a cleaner image than the 60MP native.

Read my subsequent message - I already dealt with this.

I'd love a 120mpx camera, but I don't think there's enough demand for it, because it will be a pain to work with such huge files, it'll be slow and you'll have to downsample almost everything to make it worthwhile.


Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M6/M5/M3, Mavic Pro, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2017, 02:33:55 PM »

daaningrid

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2017, 02:47:27 PM »
So.... that should mean focus peaking is in the 90d??? ;)

midluk

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 02:55:56 PM »
I hope the "Identical body to the EOS 5D Mark IV" part is not true. As a high resolution camera that is often used in live view on a tripod, an up-down tilting screen would be really useful.
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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2017, 02:55:56 PM »