June 18, 2018, 08:16:33 AM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]  (Read 45330 times)

Sharlin

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2017, 03:52:41 PM »
no, I actually downsample.

I take the image at it's 600mp and when I'm ready to save for final printing, i change the resolution DOWN and choose an appropriate sampling algorithm.  that's downsampling.

when you print, even when you don't downsample it happens during the print process anyways.

when you view the full image on your screen,it's significantly downsampled.
I give up...

Well, good, because you seem to have no idea what downsampling is. Downsampling means reducing the sample rate of a signal. When the signal is a digital image, your samples are pixels, and downsampling means reducing the resolution of the image. That is, resizing the image to a smaller number of horizontal and vertical pixels. Every time you export a photo in a lower resolution, your software downsamples the photo. Every time you display a high-res photo on a low-res screen, your image viewer downsamples the photo. And so on.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2017, 03:52:41 PM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2017, 04:13:14 PM »
no, I actually downsample.

I take the image at it's 600mp and when I'm ready to save for final printing, i change the resolution DOWN and choose an appropriate sampling algorithm.  that's downsampling.

when you print, even when you don't downsample it happens during the print process anyways.

when you view the full image on your screen,it's significantly downsampled.
I give up...

Well, good, because you seem to have no idea what downsampling is. Downsampling means reducing the sample rate of a signal. When the signal is a digital image, your samples are pixels, and downsampling means reducing the resolution of the image. That is, resizing the image to a smaller number of horizontal and vertical pixels. Every time you export a photo in a lower resolution, your software downsamples the photo. Every time you display a high-res photo on a low-res screen, your image viewer downsamples the photo. And so on.

i think i get it..

you can call it downsampling (which makes more sense to me at least) or resampling, i think that's his beef.  downsampling i guess is supposed to involve something like the AA filter versus changing the image resolution.  however in reality, you're doing both.

there. i think i got the terms right this time.. lol.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 04:20:32 PM by rrcphoto »

Sharlin

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #92 on: September 06, 2017, 04:41:43 PM »
i think i get it..

you can call it downsampling (which makes more sense to me at least) or resampling, i think that's his beef.  downsampling i guess is supposed to involve something like the AA filter versus changing the image resolution.  however in reality, you're doing both.

there. i think i got the terms right this time.. lol.

As far as I can see, downsampling is resampling "down", ie. to a lower sample rate. Upsampling is resampling to a higher sample rate. In both cases you already have a discretized signal, a bunch of samples.

bholliman

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #93 on: September 06, 2017, 05:29:29 PM »
I'm very happy with my 5DsR.  My wishlist of improvements for the MkII is pretty short:
  • tilt touch-screen LCD
  • f/8 autofocus, similar to the 5DIV
  • DPAF
  • on-chip ADC

Personally, I hope they don't increase the megapixel count too much (60mp or less), but I'm sure it will get a mp bump since that seems to come with every new iteration.


5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LII
M5, EF-M lenses: 22mm f/2, 18-150mm
https://www.flickr.com/photos/68928679@N05

tron

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #94 on: September 06, 2017, 05:53:22 PM »
Sharpening an image that has been through an AA filter will not restore detail. It will create detail that may, or may not, look similar to the detail that was lost. There's no magic way to get that detail back. Once it has been defocused you're reliant on algorithms that insert artificial sharpness. They do seem to work most of the time, but especially for monochrome work there's no substitute for having a sensor without an AA filter.

Having spent a good decade or so of my life writing image processing algorithms including multiple sharpening/unsharp mask methods I do know a thing or two about this.

In addition, I've shot tens of thousands of images on my 5DSR, landscape, portrait, macro, etc, etc. And I can't say I have found a single image that has been ruined by moire. Maybe I'm just lucky.
You are lucky. My best bee-eater (the ones that were the closest to me) shots had moire. The same with glossy ibises. On the positive side it blends with the feathers and non-photo related people do not notice it. But I know about it and I notice it. It made me think that 7DII may still have its purpose (I had started using 5DsR for birding).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 04:50:19 AM by tron »

Act444

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #95 on: September 06, 2017, 06:05:07 PM »
FWIW, I've gotten moire before on bird feathers...................................using a 5D3.

I have not used the 5DSR in nature at this point, but elsewhere I haven't had any issues with moire using that camera. I suppose that if you get it with the R, you'll also get it on a filtered camera like the 5D4 (although granted, the R will show it worse - sometimes significantly so).

Talys

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: September 06, 2017, 06:23:23 PM »
I've had moiré before on fabrics (for example, a navy sweater).  It's super annoying and not really correctable in post, at least not in a non-destructive manner.  It has happened maybe two or three times in thousands of shots; I can't recall the body.

The fix is easy, if you can re-take it, of course -- just fiddle with the light a bit, or adjust the distance or angle in a minute way, and voila.

One thing I've noticed: there are times when it appears in the JPEG, but not in the RAW file, but if it's in the RAW, it will always also be visible in the JPEG.  So if you're splitting the files (storing JPEG on laptop and RAW on camera, to speed up wifi), you only need to check the RAW file if the JPEG has moiré.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: September 06, 2017, 06:23:23 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #97 on: September 06, 2017, 06:45:40 PM »
I've had moiré before on fabrics (for example, a navy sweater).  It's super annoying and not really correctable in post, at least not in a non-destructive manner.  It has happened maybe two or three times in thousands of shots; I can't recall the body.

The fix is easy, if you can re-take it, of course -- just fiddle with the light a bit, or adjust the distance or angle in a minute way, and voila.

One thing I've noticed: there are times when it appears in the JPEG, but not in the RAW file, but if it's in the RAW, it will always also be visible in the JPEG.  So if you're splitting the files (storing JPEG on laptop and RAW on camera, to speed up wifi), you only need to check the RAW file if the JPEG has moiré.

Often times it is non destructively correctable, though not always.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

willhuff.net

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2017, 11:43:43 PM »
Any guesses about dynamic range improvements with this camera?

RTISTIC

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2017, 02:19:23 AM »
With all this EOS 5DS R MK ll talk. Canon will now have to come out with a new 5DS model to compete against
Nikons D850 in price and features. I own a 5D Mark IV even though I am happy with it. I can't help but feel slighted
you get so much more at the same price point. WHAT IS CANON DOING WRONG?

privatebydesign

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2017, 02:48:13 AM »
With all this EOS 5DS R MK ll talk. Canon will now have to come out with a new 5DS model to compete against
Nikons D850 in price and features. I own a 5D Mark IV even though I am happy with it. I can't help but feel slighted
you get so much more at the same price point. WHAT IS CANON DOING WRONG?

NOTHING.

You have a great camera that will always be better than you. You are like a guy at the urinals getting dick envy yet you have one of the hottest girls at your table. Forget the D850 (or get one and forget the 5D MkIV) and just get out and take pictures with it, who gives a darn what somebody else's camera feature set might be?
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

jolyonralph

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #101 on: September 07, 2017, 03:39:44 AM »
NOTHING.

You have a great camera that will always be better than you. You are like a guy at the urinals getting dick envy yet you have one of the hottest girls at your table. Forget the D850 (or get one and forget the 5D MkIV) and just get out and take pictures with it, who gives a darn what somebody else's camera feature set might be?


Absolutely spot on!

Also, we should count ourselves very lucky that Nikon and Sony continue to innovate and provide a real competition for Canon (and each other), without which there would be far less incentive for Canon (or the other companies) to innovate.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M6/M5/M3, Mavic Pro, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

dak723

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2017, 11:08:08 AM »

...who gives a darn what somebody else's camera feature set might be?

Immature people who have no perspective on what is important...and who are probably also lousy photographers. 8)

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: September 07, 2017, 11:08:08 AM »

Maiaibing

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #103 on: September 07, 2017, 01:38:34 PM »
no, I actually downsample.

I take the image at it's 600mp and when I'm ready to save for final printing, i change the resolution DOWN and choose an appropriate sampling algorithm.  that's downsampling.

when you print, even when you don't downsample it happens during the print process anyways.

when you view the full image on your screen,it's significantly downsampled.
I give up...

Well, good, because you seem to have no idea what downsampling is. Downsampling means reducing the sample rate of a signal. When the signal is a digital image, your samples are pixels, and downsampling means reducing the resolution of the image. That is, resizing the image to a smaller number of horizontal and vertical pixels. Every time you export a photo in a lower resolution, your software downsamples the photo. Every time you display a high-res photo on a low-res screen, your image viewer downsamples the photo. And so on.
Yes. But its not an extra effort as the OP implied. It just happens... That's why I said nobody "does" downsampling. There's no extra work or effort involved - its a property of the final result - nothing more or less.

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: September 07, 2017, 01:46:03 PM »
no, I actually downsample.

I take the image at it's 600mp and when I'm ready to save for final printing, i change the resolution DOWN and choose an appropriate sampling algorithm.  that's downsampling.

when you print, even when you don't downsample it happens during the print process anyways.

when you view the full image on your screen,it's significantly downsampled.
I give up...

Well, good, because you seem to have no idea what downsampling is. Downsampling means reducing the sample rate of a signal. When the signal is a digital image, your samples are pixels, and downsampling means reducing the resolution of the image. That is, resizing the image to a smaller number of horizontal and vertical pixels. Every time you export a photo in a lower resolution, your software downsamples the photo. Every time you display a high-res photo on a low-res screen, your image viewer downsamples the photo. And so on.
Yes. But its not an extra effort as the OP implied. It just happens... That's why I said nobody "does" downsampling. There's no extra work or effort involved - its a property of the final result - nothing more or less.

that doesn't make sense. if you are choosing to downsample, you also choose the algorithm as well.

it doesn't just happen unless you are talking about strict viewing / resizing.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: September 07, 2017, 01:46:03 PM »