November 20, 2017, 09:48:30 PM

Author Topic: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]  (Read 25718 times)

Sator

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2017, 01:25:23 AM »
Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.

Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.



The other possibility is that of a high resolution model above the 5DsR II, with a 120MP stacked sensor. My understanding was that once you go past a certain resolution, sensors need to be made with a stack design.


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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2017, 01:25:23 AM »

Talys

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2017, 01:33:24 AM »
My vote is for a high megapixel, 4k video APS-C.


ahsanford

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2017, 03:21:17 AM »
Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.

Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly.  There is no free lunch.

- A

Mikehit

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2017, 04:46:39 AM »
The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III.

No.  A 5Ds where the 11-24/4L becomes equivalent to 14mm on the wide end?  No.  There won't be any more commercial APS-H bodies.

It's also 1.3x zoom for birders. This + limitless crop = why not?

So why not just make a 1Dx model with more MP - same thing given that you will use the same lenses on either. The APS-H was a hybrid born of necessity in manufacturing. My guess is that fabrication has improved so much that the cost differential between APS-H and FF is low enough to not offset the cost of 2 different manufacturing lines

Mikehit

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2017, 04:49:42 AM »

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly.  There is no free lunch.

- A

Do they also steal light from the metering sensor? If so that would impact AF performance quite a bit.

AvTvM

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: September 19, 2017, 06:21:26 AM »
yes, yes, yes, Canon! Extremely innovative, as always! Bring it on! More mirrorslappers! Absolutely and urgently needed!

FF mirrorless? No need. Nobody wants to buy any ... just forget it! 10 years after Sony and 3 years after Nikon have launched theirs ... will be more than soon enough ... at least for most CR denizens ... if they are still alive.  :P

jeffa4444

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2017, 07:55:14 AM »
Canon have made the front end of the C700 modular to accept upgrades. When we quizzed them at the launch of the camera they didn't try to deny that they would make a Vistavision (24x36mm approx.) sensor like Red and now Sony has done with the announcement of the Venice. Arri are certainly working on a 6K replacement with Vistavision in mind for the Alexa.
So Canon could use the same sensor they could put into a full-frame C700 in a DSLR it would make sense to use the sensor in more than one camera and leapfrog the naysayers complaining about there 4K offerings. Hell it could even be 8K (oversampling being the common application of 8K Red cameras).
One issue is the failure rate of CFast cards they are not reliable in high data rate video cameras and fail often in the Alexa Mini and Amira so Canon need to chose media carefully. 
Canon 5DS, Canon 6D, Canon 6D MKII,16-35 f4L IS USM, 17-40 f4L USM, 28 f2.8, 24-70mm f4L IS USM, 24-105 f4L IS USM, 100mm f2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II, 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM, 50 f1.8 STM, 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM II, 1.4EX III, EOS 760D, EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM & others.

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 19, 2017, 07:55:14 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: September 19, 2017, 08:02:11 AM »
  • EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen.  If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost.   The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
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sanj

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: September 19, 2017, 08:59:41 AM »
  • EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen.  If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost.   The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

I doubt too. Slower 1dx2 with high megapixels at hight cost would not make much sense to me, I would just get the next version of 5dSR which should not be too far off now. Perhaps as far as this rumoured camera is.

snoke

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: September 19, 2017, 08:59:55 AM »
I doubt it will happen.  If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost.   The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

Canon 1Ds + Zeiss give color and contrast to beat all other.

Can't say why. Rent camera and lens, then you see.

RGF

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: September 19, 2017, 09:13:48 AM »
  • EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

D850 in 1Dx skin?  Will Canon be able to match FPS and DR of the D850?  Sure they can top MP, but what about other attributes that make the camera usable.

I need more than just high MP.  Reasonable FPS (not blazing fast), good DR, ..

traveller

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: September 19, 2017, 09:18:03 AM »
  • EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen.  If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost.   The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

I'd have to agree. Right now, a 1D Xs would be awkward to place in the lineup. If it was the only high megapixel body, it would put a lot of people off Canon (in the same way that Nikon did with the D3X vs 5D2 and A900) because of cost and weight issues. If the 1D Xs was released alongside a 5DSII, how would it be differentiated? Canon struggled to do this with the 1Ds3 vs the 5D2, which is probably one reason why they discontinued the 1Ds series. How would Canon create unique selling points for a 1D Xs versus a 5DSII, without making the latter look inferior to the D850? I suppose it could happen if Canon go for a very high resolution sensor (>80MP?), but would they simply be splitting an ever diminishing market at this extreme?

Edit: the other issue is the falling prices of the bottom end of the medium format market. When the 1Ds3 was released, $8000 looked like a bargain for the resolution, but you can now pick up the GFX 50S for $6500 ( how long before Sony release a 100 MP 44x33 sensor?), or the H6D 50c for $15,000?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 09:29:33 AM by traveller »

bsbeamer

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2017, 09:21:55 AM »
Since this is CR-1 it is fun to speculate about what this mystery camera might be.

7Dx – Integrated grip 7D with CFast slot, 16 fps, good high ISO performance, full touch-screen, built to 1D standards, basic editing in-camera and intuitive wifi interface.

8D – Lowest-priced full-frame camera on the market. Essentially, a re-packaged 6D retailing for $1,000-1,400 at introduction.

80c - 4K cinema 80D with 80D's flip screen and headphone jack, CFast slot, along with cinema quality feature set (I'm not a video person so don't know what all that would entail.)

Curious what others might suggest.

+1 on the 80C, though Canon might just call it the 90D.   ;)   In fairness, I am a idiot with video, so I see DPAF + tilty-flippy + touch and say "Let's make a movie!" like some knuckle-headed 80s dad with a camcorder.  (I equate enthusiast video tech with 'cinema' and that's clearly a miss.  Are real cine folks out there using video AF at all?)

Yes - DPAF, flip screen, and touch screen are all features that are very helpful for cinema work in the right situation.  Not every project has a Hollywood budget, but nearly every client expects their project to be treated as such.  DPAF is extremely helpful with walking or gimble shots and can be great for documentary style interviews, or sending a producer to record these interviews vs. a true DP. 

As for my vote, +1 on the 80C, 90C, 7DC, or 5DC.  All could be killer cameras if priced right.

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2017, 09:21:55 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2017, 09:40:07 AM »

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly.  There is no free lunch.

- A

Do they also steal light from the metering sensor? If so that would impact AF performance quite a bit.

No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Mikehit

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2017, 09:49:27 AM »


No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.

Thanks PBD.
Everything I read about pellicle mirrors suggest it would be a step backwards.

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Re: New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2017, 09:49:27 AM »