December 13, 2017, 05:51:28 PM

Author Topic: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance  (Read 28089 times)

Talys

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2017, 01:41:34 PM »
I see people who try to complain about 6DII's AF coverage in comparison to, for example, to 7DII.  For birding, practically, I will normally one-shot AF center point only, and then reframe.  If I'm going to take multiple shots I just hit the MF switch, or you can get rid of half-shutter press and just AF from the back button.

For studio stills from a tripod, I will usually choose an AF point, then make a small adjustments in framing and/or just switch to MF.  Sometimes, for apparel, for example, I'd like the left chest to be the focus point so that an embroidered logo can be guaranteed to be perfectly crisp, and for that, the 6DII works just fine.


Just to put it out there, here is the Nikon 750, 810, and 850 coverage:



And the 1DXMkII viewfinder looks like this:


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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2017, 01:41:34 PM »

Jack Douglas

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2017, 01:53:46 PM »
Seems like there shouldn't be any more confusion at this point, perhaps we've beaten it to death. 

I should be totally thrilled to have the amazing quality of the camera I have and totally forget about any nit picking.  That's what I should do. ;)

Then if there are possible improvements forward the suggestions to Canon and continue to be a happy shooter. That's what I should do. ;) ;)

 :)  Happy shooting everyone!  :)

Jack
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AlanF

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #107 on: September 24, 2017, 02:18:52 PM »
For birding, practically, I will normally one-shot AF center point only, and then reframe.  ]

I generally use centre point A1 servo. There is a technical problem in focussing and then reframing. Lenses are designed so as far as possible all the points in the plane of the focal point perpendicular to the axis of the lens are in focus. If you focus on one part of a subject then turn the camera to reframe on another, you twist the plane of focus so that the original point is no longer in focus. If the movement is very small and there is sufficient depth of field, you might get away with it. It's for that reason that we have the choice of choosing off-centre focus points so that, for example, you can focus on the bird's eye and have it's belly in the centre of the frame.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

Talys

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #108 on: September 24, 2017, 02:49:40 PM »
For birding, practically, I will normally one-shot AF center point only, and then reframe.  ]

I generally use centre point A1 servo. There is a technical problem in focussing and then reframing. Lenses are designed so as far as possible all the points in the plane of the focal point perpendicular to the axis of the lens are in focus. If you focus on one part of a subject then turn the camera to reframe on another, you twist the plane of focus so that the original point is no longer in focus. If the movement is very small and there is sufficient depth of field, you might get away with it. It's for that reason that we have the choice of choosing off-centre focus points so that, for example, you can focus on the bird's eye and have it's belly in the centre of the frame.

By twist the frame of focus, do you mean, rotate the pitch of the camera?  I don't think I would do that intentionally, though of course, it won't be millimeter perfect.  My intent is to not have to rotate photos in post, because that also messes with the sharpness of the finished image.

You're right though, DoF will give some leeway, because my photos are usually being taken at apertures of 5.6 and higher, with many portraits where I'd have the luxury of focusing specifically on the eye set to f/8 (not being one of the fortunate who own a 600f/4 :D).

The reason I only use AI servo when I'm specifically trying to photograph a large bird in flight is because many of my photos of opportunity are of quick smaller birds, and to catch them doing something interesting, I have to manually focus.  Grabbing the MF ring doesn't really work with AI servo (since it will refocus on what it thinks the subject should be, usually foliage).

« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:52:01 PM by Talys »

AlanF

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #109 on: September 24, 2017, 03:50:37 PM »
I mean just turn it away from the point on which you have focussed to another point. Eg, you focus on the eye, and then point the camera at the feet. I use back button focus and A1-servo with my finger pressed down continually so if the bird moves back or forth the camera will refocus, but if I want to freeze the focal distance I just release the pressure on the back button.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

cpsico

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #110 on: September 24, 2017, 03:58:42 PM »
It's a nice balanced little camera, and if I didn't already have a good lowlight camera it would unarguably end up in my possession. It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me. Will it take amazing pictures? Yes!!! Ironically you will have to understand exposure and lighting to get the best out of it. Not truly an issue for the most part, I haven't used one just yet. Maybe in a year or two it will find home in my bag , or I will sit this upgrade out and buy a lens or two. Hard to say just yet, maybe when I see more real world reviews I will change my tune. Btw more or less everyone  thought the original 6d was crap until they shot with it and found it to be a seriously fun little camera. So hear we are again, some are bashing and some are defending a nice little camera that in a few years most will own that already have canon lenses. Still chafed over the crappie UHS1 single slot.....😈

Jack Douglas

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2017, 06:20:13 PM »
Alan, we choose the best AF point that we judge will do the job well.  For example with 400DO II X2 the best choice is probably within the center rectangle since those are cross type at F8.  That leaves us with minimal recompose shifting to do, possibly to get the tail in the photo since sometimes shots may be close to filling the frame. 

Often at closer range none of the AF points on an eye will allow for a best composition and LV is not the answer.  To top it off, if lighting is not the best, then the sensitivity of AF points off center, particularly with AI servo, is not as good as AF center, double cross, one shot.  We're stuck with that reality.

I'm not saying that this reality is such a big deal but it does come into play.

Alan, BTW your technique is essentially the same as one-shot but it is not actually using the one-shot algorithm, so not as accurate , according to my feedback from Canon.

Jack
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 06:22:57 PM by Jack Douglas »
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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #111 on: September 24, 2017, 06:20:13 PM »

Mikehit

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #112 on: September 24, 2017, 06:37:08 PM »
It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me.

There is always this assumption that when a new model is released, the main target is getting people using the current model to upgrade.  I very much doubt it. It is there to keep people who own lower models and are looking to upgrade, to upgrade with the same manufacturer.

But for me, the 6D2 would be worth upgrading for the tilty flippy and better AF point spread alone. My choice is whether I get the 6D2 or 5DIV.

dak723

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #113 on: September 24, 2017, 07:31:55 PM »
It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me.

There is always this assumption that when a new model is released, the main target is getting people using the current model to upgrade.  I very much doubt it. It is there to keep people who own lower models and are looking to upgrade, to upgrade with the same manufacturer.

But for me, the 6D2 would be worth upgrading for the tilty flippy and better AF point spread alone. My choice is whether I get the 6D2 or 5DIV.

I am fairly sure that the target audience is not up-graders of the same line.  Considering the very small differences between camera generations, if that was the target market, camera makers would go out of business.  Most folks (I believe) will keep their camera until it breaks down, until a major new feature hits the market, or if they are moving upmarket (crop to FF, or entry level to more pro level).  If you have the original 6D, then you probably are completely satisfied with the IQ.  The major desires with an upgrade were the AF system and a tilty screen.  And that is exactly what Canon upgraded.  You could easily argue that Canon was very smart.  If they had only upgraded the low ISO DR, then only the few DR complainers found on forums would upgrade.  To the vast majority of camera buyers who don't care about DR test results, they would see no difference between the 6D and the 6D II - and would have absolutely no reason to upgrade.

cpsico

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2017, 09:56:38 PM »
It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me.

There is always this assumption that when a new model is released, the main target is getting people using the current model to upgrade.  I very much doubt it. It is there to keep people who own lower models and are looking to upgrade, to upgrade with the same manufacturer.

But for me, the 6D2 would be worth upgrading for the tilty flippy and better AF point spread alone. My choice is whether I get the 6D2 or 5DIV.
I do have new 5D IV, it is an unbelievable work of art. Canon hit this one out of the park. The autofocus is amazing, can be customized to switch between AI servo and one shot by holding down a button, and there is alot of latitude in the files in terms of dynamic range, and 30 megapixels is really a sweet spot in resolution. It's every thing canon users have been asking for in a camera. Battery life does fall short of the 6d.

Jack Douglas

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #115 on: September 25, 2017, 03:07:28 AM »
It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me.

There is always this assumption that when a new model is released, the main target is getting people using the current model to upgrade.  I very much doubt it. It is there to keep people who own lower models and are looking to upgrade, to upgrade with the same manufacturer.

But for me, the 6D2 would be worth upgrading for the tilty flippy and better AF point spread alone. My choice is whether I get the 6D2 or 5DIV.
I do have new 5D IV, it is an unbelievable work of art. Canon hit this one out of the park. The autofocus is amazing, can be customized to switch between AI servo and one shot by holding down a button, and there is alot of latitude in the files in terms of dynamic range, and 30 megapixels is really a sweet spot in resolution. It's every thing canon users have been asking for in a camera. Battery life does fall short of the 6d.

In that case why consider the 6D2 - only reason I see is flip screen and I wouldn't use that enough to justify owning both.

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

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AlanF

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #116 on: September 25, 2017, 06:15:37 AM »
Alan, we choose the best AF point that we judge will do the job well.  For example with 400DO II X2 the best choice is probably within the center rectangle since those are cross type at F8.  That leaves us with minimal recompose shifting to do, possibly to get the tail in the photo since sometimes shots may be close to filling the frame. 

Often at closer range none of the AF points on an eye will allow for a best composition and LV is not the answer.  To top it off, if lighting is not the best, then the sensitivity of AF points off center, particularly with AI servo, is not as good as AF center, double cross, one shot.  We're stuck with that reality.

I'm not saying that this reality is such a big deal but it does come into play.

Alan, BTW your technique is essentially the same as one-shot but it is not actually using the one-shot algorithm, so not as accurate , according to my feedback from Canon.

Jack

Jack
If it moves you have to use A1 servo. I use One-Shot for calibration and static targets, but to use it for birds I would miss out on BIF, and birds that suddenly take off, leaping around or jerking their heads etc. There are problems in being too close to birds because of shallow depth of field at close distances and they fill up too much of the frame.  When birds are close, I much prefer to use a zoom and not my 400 prime and I zoom out to get better overall sharpness.  The technique of using off-centre points is that employed by Art Morris and other experts, though everyone is at liberty to use any technique they wish. I personally use only the centre point.
Alan
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

cpsico

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »
It's just not enough to upgrade over the previous 6d for me.

There is always this assumption that when a new model is released, the main target is getting people using the current model to upgrade.  I very much doubt it. It is there to keep people who own lower models and are looking to upgrade, to upgrade with the same manufacturer.

But for me, the 6D2 would be worth upgrading for the tilty flippy and better AF point spread alone. My choice is whether I get the 6D2 or 5DIV.
I do have new 5D IV, it is an unbelievable work of art. Canon hit this one out of the park. The autofocus is amazing, can be customized to switch between AI servo and one shot by holding down a button, and there is alot of latitude in the files in terms of dynamic range, and 30 megapixels is really a sweet spot in resolution. It's every thing canon users have been asking for in a camera. Battery life does fall short of the 6d.

In that case why consider the 6D2 - only reason I see is flip screen and I wouldn't use that enough to justify owning both.

Jack
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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #117 on: September 25, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »

Jack Douglas

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #118 on: September 25, 2017, 11:41:47 AM »
Alan I should have clarified for more static subjects, certainly not BIF.  However, a center AF point on an eye regularly results in less than ideal framing for me, especially if we are talking a somewhat longer profile, say a long-tailed bird.  Of course the higher MP camera allows you to do your framing after the fact so you shoot with greater distance and don't loose needed resolution.  Which takes us to the trade-off Canon has made between speed and resolution.  I don't have the resolution you have.

Jack
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AlanF

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2017, 01:39:02 PM »
Alan I should have clarified for more static subjects, certainly not BIF.  However, a center AF point on an eye regularly results in less than ideal framing for me, especially if we are talking a somewhat longer profile, say a long-tailed bird.  Of course the higher MP camera allows you to do your framing after the fact so you shoot with greater distance and don't loose needed resolution.  Which takes us to the trade-off Canon has made between speed and resolution.  I don't have the resolution you have.

Jack

You have made the decision to go for the low resolution built-for-speed 1DXII and a 400mm prime lens. You have to make compromises with that combination. Look at Art Morris's latest blog http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/ "favorite egret photography camera body, the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV." and "You Can't Do This With a Fixed Focal Length Lens" ...

He has traded in his 5DSRs for 5DIVs. However, I prefer my 5DSR over my 5DIV for static shots.  The resolution of the 5DSR combined with the absence of low-pass filter gives in practice about 42% linear resolution over my 5DIV (1.29x for extra pixels and about 1.1x for the filter, measured by me from charts).  And I estimate about 1.74x that of your 1DXII given reasonable light.

If I concentrated on BIF, and was younger and stronger, I would go for your 1DX and the 400mm DO II plus extenders. However, the 5DIV with the bare 400mm DO II is no slouch, and i like a wide field of view for BIF.  If I had just one body, I would opt for the 5DIV.

5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

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Re: DXO: Canon EOS 6D Mark II Sensor Review: Great Color and ISO Performance
« Reply #119 on: September 25, 2017, 01:39:02 PM »