December 15, 2017, 10:47:37 PM

Author Topic: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]  (Read 20328 times)

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Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« on: October 03, 2017, 04:17:53 PM »
We’re told that Canon’s first foray into a full frame mirrorless camera will use a dedicated CMOS sensor and won’t be using either the EOS 6D Mark II or EOS 5D Mark IV image sensors. The claim again comes from an internal presentation of Canon’s 2018 roadmap. We’re still being told not to expect an announcement until at least August of 2018 ahead of Photokina in Cologne, Germany.

We’re also told that a higher end APS-C based mirrorless camera above the EOS M5 is not in the cards.

Nikon is expected to announce their first full frame mirrorless camera before Canon in the first half of 2018.

More to come…

« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 08:38:30 AM by Canon Rumors »
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Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« on: October 03, 2017, 04:17:53 PM »

-pekr-

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 04:26:32 PM »
I just hope they don't remove DPAF.

infared

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 04:26:58 PM »
Interesting...but not "on the edge of my seat" interesting.
I use Canon for FF (5DIV)...and I am waaaay committed to another manufacturer's non-FF, mirrorless system already (5 bodies, 15 lenses)....so unless this is something super special from Canon...which based on the way Canon doles out its cameras...."we are number 1...We do what we feel like and don't engage in a competition with our competitors" attitude....I am not really expecting too much from a Canon FF mirrorless.  Still it will be interesting to see if they can get serious about it!  8)
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Canon Rumors

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 04:34:24 PM »
I just hope they don't remove DPAF.

DPAF is going to be part of every DSLR/Mirrorless camera going forward, until they come up with something better.
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Warren21

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 04:35:36 PM »
I think we're all in agreement that it will probably be called the M1, and Canon have been rebranding/positioning their EOS M line to match the 'European' EOS naming conventions... See below:

1D/M1 - Professional 'Halo' Product/Highest Performance
5D/M5 - Professional/High Performance
6D/M6 - Entry level Professional/Enthusiast High Performance

x0D/Mx0 - Enthusiast/Performance (This whole theory hinges on what the M20 will look like...)

x00D/Mx00 - Entry level (Ever wonder why the successor to the M10 was the M100? I think this is why...)

The potential M20 and the existence of the M100 cameras are really what bring this idea to life, but it would be nice to have some congruity between the two product lines. What do you all think?
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funkboy

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 04:47:14 PM »
Personally I think that an APS-H size sensor (with e.g 6D-size pixels) would be sufficient for a large-sensor mirrorless camera, & help keep the size & weight down while still being a significant step up from the APS-C crowd.

andrei1989

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 04:56:31 PM »

We’re also told that a higher end APS-C based mirrorless camera above the EOS M5 is not in the cards.



well that's nice news for me :)
means i won't be tempted by a newer crop M
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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 04:56:31 PM »

brad-man

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 05:12:49 PM »
"We’re also told that a higher end APS-C based mirrorless camera above the EOS M5 is not in the cards."  Why should they? There are few M lenses worthy of the M5/6 as it is. To come up with a new mount only to let it wither and die. I certainly don't understand Canon's strategy. As for FF mirrorless, my standards are much higher than for APS-C since there are no real size benefits. Global electronic shutter and a zippy quick EVF are  prerequisite. Someday...

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 05:23:43 PM »

The Nikon bit is juicy, the rest less so.

1) Nikon to come to market with FF mirrorless first = logical given their CX / Nikon 1 exodus, but one wonders if it will be a rushed effort to reassure its users that it is on stable footing and pushing new ideas in this space.  I see Canon being late to the FF mirrorless space (i.e. even behind Nikon), but what they offer will work reliably with familiar handling.

2) 'Higher end APS-C' will likely just be the follow-up to the M5/M6 models.  I see that being the 80D of mirrorless, and moving up to a 7D2 of mirrorless doesn't really have a big market, does it?.

3) New sensor = yawn.  Doubt it will be a curved sensor gamechanger as it will (likely) impact EF lens compatibility, right?  I read 'new sensor in FF mirrorless' as simply being better than the 6D2 and not being better than the 5D4, nothing more. It very well could just be a 26 MP sensor with the dynamic range of the 5D4 that was bizarrely left out of the 6D2 sensor.

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ahsanford

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 05:26:38 PM »
"We’re also told that a higher end APS-C based mirrorless camera above the EOS M5 is not in the cards."  Why should they? There are few M lenses worthy of the M5/6 as it is. To come up with a new mount only to let it wither and die. I certainly don't understand Canon's strategy. As for FF mirrorless, my standards are much higher than for APS-C since there are no real size benefits. Global electronic shutter and a zippy quick EVF are  prerequisite. Someday...

+1.  Who needs a 10-12 fps super APS-C rig when the best native mount lens doesn't even have USM focusing?

Talk to me about a 7D2-like mirrorless rig when there's an EF-M 10-22 f/2.8 USM or EF-M 17-55 f/2.8 to use with it.

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ahsanford

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 05:36:14 PM »
1D/M1 - Professional 'Halo' Product/Highest Performance
5D/M5 - Professional/High Performance
6D/M6 - Entry level Professional/Enthusiast High Performance

1) I thought the M5 and M6 differed only in one getting an integral EVF.  (Correct/incorrect?)

2) Equating the functionality / IQ / performance of the 5D and the M5 is off-target.  The 5D is a professional rig with a professional build and feature set -- it just lack an integral grip and sexiest of the highest end stuff the 1DX platform gets.  In contrast, I'd more liken the M5 to the 80D, not the 5D brand.

I get your good/better/best approach, but as mirrorless will straddle mount sizes in this approach, I see it more like:

M1 (if that's what it's called) = a 6D2 + EVF - mirror.  I just don't see them offering a beastly 5D4 / 5DS / 1DX2 level mirrorless rig to start.   Go for well-heeled enthusiasts and folks looking for a solid second body and scoop up all the cash from pent-up demand.

M5/M6 = 80D for those who do/don't want an integral EVF.  I think it's perfectly positioned right there -- going upmarket to a 7D2-like 'crop 1DX lite' rig is a leap to me.

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 05:46:19 PM »
Long time to wait. A7rii are approaching 2k mark on the grey markets.


Talys

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 05:49:22 PM »
M5/M6 = 80D for those who do/don't want an integral EVF.  I think it's perfectly positioned right there -- going upmarket to a 7D2-like 'crop 1DX lite' rig is a leap to me.

It makes even less sense when considering that a lot (most?) 7D2 owners buy it for sports/wildlife + extra reach -- and how many of those users have a strong preference for OVF? 

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 05:49:22 PM »

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 06:02:08 PM »
If they make it as much fun to use as the M5, but with a better EVF, I'd definately give it a try.

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 06:10:44 PM »
M5/M6 = 80D for those who do/don't want an integral EVF.  I think it's perfectly positioned right there -- going upmarket to a 7D2-like 'crop 1DX lite' rig is a leap to me.

It makes even less sense when considering that a lot (most?) 7D2 owners buy it for sports/wildlife + extra reach -- and how many of those users have a strong preference for OVF?

Certainly not 'most'.  If every 7D2 owner was shooting wildlife/BiF/sports, it would be a > $2500+ 'crop 1DX' rig built for war, built for superwhites, etc..  It isn't.  It's effectively an 80D with a tougher build, slightly higher FPS and better AF, nothing more.

I think a lot of soccer moms and hockey dads get a 7D2 with a kid's odd action need in mind but end up using it at pedestrian standard FLs quite a bit.  And when they do, they are forced to choose between slow EF-S STM nonsense, very old and underwhelming EF-S USM lenses, or EF L lenses that straddle common use cases (e.g. an EF 24-70 on crop always had me switching out to my EF-S 10-22mm as the wide end was equivalent 38mm FF or so -- effectively right in the heart of a standard zoom).  Crop lacks high end*, first- party, purpose-built standard zooms and ultrawides, unless you consider slapping a 16-35L on one a good substitute.

(*Yes, yes, there are quite sharp and serviceable EF-S lenses, but consider: few are 'last 5 years modern' + USM + faster than f/4.)

And people who want reach also want responsiveness, which means OVF to me.  So a high fps EVF-based crop rig just doesn't add up to me.

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Re: Canon Full Frame Mirrorless to use Dedicated Sensor [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 06:10:44 PM »