November 20, 2017, 09:49:04 PM

Author Topic: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score  (Read 8136 times)

SecureGSM

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:02 PM »
there is another one that is not quite easy to fix:

skin tones coming out of Nikon bodies are quite different to Canon colours. Running and gunning with 2 cameras, one Canon and one Nikon side by side makes really uneasy to balance colours out in the end product. put photos in the same album and it feels mismatched... Your 5DsR produced colours are just perfect though.
I am not saying that the difference is so dramatic that everyone sees this, but... It is noticeable to my eye...




Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:22:37 PM by SecureGSM »

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:02 PM »

stevelee

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2017, 10:30:57 PM »
I'm surprised at how often when I open picture from one of my Canons in ACR that the "as shot" color balance looks just about right to me. I will often try the "auto" setting (and less often one of the others as seems appropriate) just to see what adjustments it suggests to me. And then I go back to "as shot" and maybe tweak a bit.

I don't know whether Canon just produces good color, or at least color to suit my tastes, or whether using Canons has trained me to see the world the way their cameras and lenses do.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:46:53 PM by stevelee »

SecureGSM

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2017, 10:41:10 PM »
you are correct, Sir!
Canon colour magic is superb. I personally could not care less about Nikon or Sony system no matter how "advanced" their tech is as each time I look at a Canon camera produced image I see exactly why I choose to shoot with Canon: colours.

I'm surprised at how often when I open picture from one of my Canons in ACR that the "as shot" color balance looks just about right to me. I will often try the "auto" setting (and less often one of the others as seems appropriate) just to see what adjustments it suggests to me. And then I go back to "as shot" and maybe tweak a bit.

I don't know whether Canon just produces good color, or at least color to suit my tastes, or whether using Canons have trained me to see the world the way their cameras and lenses do.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 11:59:15 PM by SecureGSM »

Jopa

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2017, 07:11:35 AM »
there is another one that is not quite easy to fix:

skin tones coming out of Nikon bodies are quite different to Canon colours. Running and gunning with 2 cameras, one Canon and one Nikon side by side makes really uneasy to balance colours out in the end product. put photos in the same album and it feels mismatched... Your 5DsR produced colours are just perfect though.
I am not saying that the difference is so dramatic that everyone sees this, but... It is noticeable to my eye...




Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this :)

Cannot agree more! I was shooting with Sony (A99/A7r/A7II/A7rII) since 2012 and the colors are really different. With Canon they are pretty much always spot on, except if I shoot in a bunch of grass / green surroundings. Still not as significant color cast compared to Sony, much easier to correct.

RGF

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2017, 08:45:51 AM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.  Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share.  Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

AlanF

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 09:00:39 AM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.  Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share.  Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

You have misunderstood Securegsm: the 5DsR II may have the killer features of the D850, not that it would have an EF.  I'll take you on given the probability of that being 0.00000000000001% - a 1 cent bet would return $100 trillion.
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

SecureGSM

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2017, 09:02:47 AM »
RGF,

Please enlighten me, apart from being higher resolution, how the D850 sensor is better than 5D IV sensor?
what criteria to look for?


Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850. 

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2017, 09:02:47 AM »

arthurbikemad

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2017, 09:28:24 AM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.  Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share.  Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

It's an odd one, Nikon make the best DSLR in the world (so some may say) but they struggle to survive, perhaps this is why DXO pity them ;) As for 5D4 close to the 850, my 5D4 don't seem half bad and my "low res" 1DX2 seems to kicks its arse at times.

Perhaps the answer is for Canon to buy out Nikon  ::)

CR Backup Admin

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2017, 01:50:25 PM »
I've removed posts referring to Na**'s, sorry if I missed any.

They are never funny, but since its a rare occurrence, I've issues warnings rather than a ban.

ahsanford

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2017, 02:12:23 PM »
RGF,

Please enlighten me, apart from being higher resolution, how the D850 sensor is better than 5D IV sensor?
what criteria to look for?

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850. 

If DXO data is accepted:

  • The D850 has more dynamic range (at base ISO) and greater color depth.  The differences, in fairness, are not very large.  For instance, 1.2 stops of base ISO DR will not let you leave the ND grads at home / abandon the practice of compositing multiple shots for tripod landscape work.  Further, the gap between Canon and Nikon has been dramatically reduced here -- the D800/D800E/D810 models were a wowzer-like 2.5-3 stops better than the 5D3 on this front.

  • Though the D850's high ISO score isn't quite up to the 5D4's, it's not far off.  I haven't seen a 45 MP file downsampled to the 30 MP of the 5D4 for comparison yet -- it's possible at downsampled D850 file might be cleaner than a 5D4 file.

So it's a little better depending on how you look at it:

Detail:  Considerably better
Base ISO DR:  Slightly better
General DR away from Base ISO:  Similar
High ISO noise:  Slightly worse (45 MP) to perhaps equivalent (30 MP downsample)

But there's nothing in the sensor data that I've seen thus far that the D850 will be an overall better camera in real world use.  The D850 sensor captures more detail and conditionally outperforms the 5D4 in a few areas, but that drives right past AF, handling, LiveView/video use (where DPAF is a nontrivial consideration), etc.

As I said before, the D850 (like the D500 before it) is a spec sheet juggernaut, but it needs to work well in real use and reviews are needed to get into that.  That said, I have much more faith in Nikon than Sony to deliver the potential of that spec sheet.

- A

Talys

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2017, 02:17:03 PM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.  Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share.  Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

It's an odd one, Nikon make the best DSLR in the world (so some may say) but they struggle to survive, perhaps this is why DXO pity them ;) As for 5D4 close to the 850, my 5D4 don't seem half bad and my "low res" 1DX2 seems to kicks its arse at times.

Perhaps the answer is for Canon to buy out Nikon  ::)

Canon is better at market research and pricing products.  I will freely admit that when I went from Nikon to Canon, it wasn't because Canon had the best $5,000 camera.  At the time, I was looking for a sub $1,000 body option, and Canon had not only had better options in that price range, but also visibly nicer colors.  Plus, I really wanted the EFS17-55/2.8, which ended up putting me over budget anyways.  But just like the 70-200 2.8 IS II and the 100-400 II, these have been lenses that have made it so that I wouldn't consider switching away from Canon; when I bought them, and for a long time afterwards, they have just the best pieces of glass I've ever used, and they were priced at a level which was expensive, but acceptable for me at the time of purchase.

Who made the best camera that I couldn't afford and couldn't foresee buying did not impact my buying decision at all -- I didn't even investigate who had the best sensor.

snoke

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2017, 05:56:49 PM »
I've removed posts referring to Na**'s, sorry if I missed any.

They are never funny, but since its a rare occurrence, I've issues warnings rather than a ban.

Apologize for very bad joke in very poor taste.

SecureGSM

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2017, 05:21:40 AM »
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Nikon%20D850

bit less than 1.2 stops of DR difference at the base ISO. more like a 0.8 of a stop and only at ISO 65 :)

High ISO performance of 5D IV is noticeably better though.
In addition,  DPAF performance of the Canon in comparison to Nikon is  simply "off the chart" :D
Aha!

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV   Maximum PDR: 10.83 EV   Low Light ISO: 5011   Low Light EV: 10.65
Nikon D850                      Maximum PDR : 11.63        Low Light ISO: 4115    Low Light EV: 10.36


 if

If DXO data is accepted:

  • The D850 has more dynamic range (at base ISO) and greater color depth.  The differences, in fairness, are not very large.  For instance, 1.2 stops of base ISO DR will not let you leave the ND grads at home / abandon the practice of compositing multiple shots for tripod landscape work.  Further, the gap between Canon and Nikon has been dramatically reduced here -- the D800/D800E/D810 models were a wowzer-like 2.5-3 stops better than the 5D3 on this front.

  • Though the D850's high ISO score isn't quite up to the 5D4's, it's not far off.  I haven't seen a 45 MP file downsampled to the 30 MP of the 5D4 for comparison yet -- it's possible at downsampled D850 file might be cleaner than a 5D4 file.

So it's a little better depending on how you look at it:

Detail:  Considerably better
Base ISO DR:  Slightly better
General DR away from Base ISO:  Similar
High ISO noise:  Slightly worse (45 MP) to perhaps equivalent (30 MP downsample)

But there's nothing in the sensor data that I've seen thus far that the D850 will be an overall better camera in real world use.  The D850 sensor captures more detail and conditionally outperforms the 5D4 in a few areas, but that drives right past AF, handling, LiveView/video use (where DPAF is a nontrivial consideration), etc.

As I said before, the D850 (like the D500 before it) is a spec sheet juggernaut, but it needs to work well in real use and reviews are needed to get into that.  That said, I have much more faith in Nikon than Sony to deliver the potential of that spec sheet.

- A
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 05:23:57 AM by SecureGSM »

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2017, 05:21:40 AM »

Jopa

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%205D%20Mark%20IV,Nikon%20D850

bit less than 1.2 stops of DR difference at the base ISO. more like a 0.8 of a stop and only at ISO 65 :)

High ISO performance of 5D IV is noticeably better though.
In addition,  DPAF performance of the Canon in comparison to Nikon is  simply "off the chart" :D
Aha!

Canon EOS 5D Mark IV   Maximum PDR: 10.83 EV   Low Light ISO: 5011   Low Light EV: 10.65
Nikon D850                      Maximum PDR : 11.63        Low Light ISO: 4115    Low Light EV: 10.36


 if

If DXO data is accepted:

  • The D850 has more dynamic range (at base ISO) and greater color depth.  The differences, in fairness, are not very large.  For instance, 1.2 stops of base ISO DR will not let you leave the ND grads at home / abandon the practice of compositing multiple shots for tripod landscape work.  Further, the gap between Canon and Nikon has been dramatically reduced here -- the D800/D800E/D810 models were a wowzer-like 2.5-3 stops better than the 5D3 on this front.

  • Though the D850's high ISO score isn't quite up to the 5D4's, it's not far off.  I haven't seen a 45 MP file downsampled to the 30 MP of the 5D4 for comparison yet -- it's possible at downsampled D850 file might be cleaner than a 5D4 file.

So it's a little better depending on how you look at it:

Detail:  Considerably better
Base ISO DR:  Slightly better
General DR away from Base ISO:  Similar
High ISO noise:  Slightly worse (45 MP) to perhaps equivalent (30 MP downsample)

But there's nothing in the sensor data that I've seen thus far that the D850 will be an overall better camera in real world use.  The D850 sensor captures more detail and conditionally outperforms the 5D4 in a few areas, but that drives right past AF, handling, LiveView/video use (where DPAF is a nontrivial consideration), etc.

As I said before, the D850 (like the D500 before it) is a spec sheet juggernaut, but it needs to work well in real use and reviews are needed to get into that.  That said, I have much more faith in Nikon than Sony to deliver the potential of that spec sheet.

- A

Dude, those 0.8 is what makes your images stand out, it's a winning ticket to Pulitzer and every single photo contest, don't you know? :) All images taken with the cameras having less DR are shame of photography, and must be consigned to oblivion. I'm pretty sure DpR would approve this message.

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2017, 10:36:40 AM »